Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

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Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:46 pm

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/ ... 87,00.html

Fully agree with him on this one. Two game ban was ridiculous knee jerk reaction.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Fish111 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:57 pm

I don't understand why he got a two game ban for a yellow card offence!! Very strange.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Scatman » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:59 pm

maybe it should get more than a yellow card
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Dameerto » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:26 pm

The irony is they relied on TV replays to impose the ban, yet refuse to allow video replays at matches.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby lets all have a disco » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:28 pm

The authorities have got to do something about diving though its a disgrace some of the shit players get away with.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Fish111 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:55 pm

FIFA are basically relying on SKY cameras for evidence yet they insist that they do not want technology brought into the game because they want to keep the game the same from the top down to grass roots level. They must be planning to have SKY cameras at Cringle Park this weekend then.
What happens when/if the SKY bubble bursts half way through a season and some players have been punished for various offences with the help of SKY TV and other players will get away with the exact same offence when there are no cameras present?
Relying on the evidence provided by a TV station is a dangerous precedent to set imo.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby City1970 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:24 am

I dont think its for the actual dive he got banned for, its for how he did it, and then, in Uefa's own words "Deceived the Ref". My take on this is that he knew there was no contact, but he still appealed for a penalty, that in anyones books is cheating. End of.

I think the ban is correct, diving is ruining the game, look at what the show pony over at the swamp used to get away with. In the game against Boro a couple of years ago, he won a penalty without being touch, fergiscum defended him by saying that the "Intention was there" (To commit a foul). It was ridiculous statement then, and still is now. Yesterday he was reported in the press as saying that diving was runing the game (He never said anything when Tranaldo was diving around the prem).

If you cheat, you should get punished, eduardo cheated by saying he was tripped by the goalkeeper, replays show he wasnt even touched, in fact he tripped over his own heel.

On the second point, surley people realise by now, that the powers that be (FA, Uefa, Fifa), will use any means when it suits them to get what they want, then say they cannot use the same means, when it doesnt suit them. Its all politics. Football, is now unfortunatly, a very political game.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:46 am

City1970 wrote:I dont think its for the actual dive he got banned for, its for how he did it, and then, in Uefa's own words "Deceived the Ref". My take on this is that he knew there was no contact, but he still appealed for a penalty, that in anyones books is cheating. End of.

I think the ban is correct, diving is ruining the game, look at what the show pony over at the swamp used to get away with. In the game against Boro a couple of years ago, he won a penalty without being touch, fergiscum defended him by saying that the "Intention was there" (To commit a foul). It was ridiculous statement then, and still is now. Yesterday he was reported in the press as saying that diving was runing the game (He never said anything when Tranaldo was diving around the prem).

If you cheat, you should get punished, eduardo cheated by saying he was tripped by the goalkeeper, replays show he wasnt even touched, in fact he tripped over his own heel.

On the second point, surley people realise by now, that the powers that be (FA, Uefa, Fifa), will use any means when it suits them to get what they want, then say they cannot use the same means, when it doesnt suit them. Its all politics. Football, is now unfortunatly, a very political game.


As Toschak points out, we don't know whether it was a pre-meditated dive or if he was just getting out of the way.

But what is the most worrying here is that it's not the same rules for everyone anymore now. If they take that route then fair enough BUT from now on they need to analyse EVERY SINGLE situation like that. You see dives in every game these days, even in England. In Italy and Spain maybe dozen times in a game. When Rooney takes yet another 90th minute nosedive next saturday in White Hart Lane penalty box to earn rags a win, will governing bodies take stance? What about when that shitbag who I'll be marking on tuesday takes another dive on me and someone is video taping the game? Should I send it to Finnish FA to get this feller, binman or maybe construction worker or possibly lawyer, banned for few games?

The beauty of football for me is that it's essentially the same game with same set of rules from local park to CoMS. Referees are already allowed to show yellow card for diving everywhere, yet studying video evidence isn't available everywhere and I'm sure they aren't going to start studying every single diving incident even in top leagues. Which makes this particular ban unfair, regardless of what you think about diving (and just for the record I hate it and it's the cancer of the game).
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Piccsnumberoneblue » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:54 am

We all hate diving and cheating and we know it goes on, but.....
They are asking refs to act on what can only be a subjective opinion. Did he mean to cheat? How can they know for definite?
It's down to managers to stop their players doing it. And they understandably won't.
Everytime Arsene has claimed not to have seen an incident, or Bacon Face has deflected criticism of his unstable footed star, by calling for more protection for Christine, they effectively condone cheating.
It's their own fault in many ways when something like this comes back to bite them.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Vhero » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:08 am

Fish111 wrote:I don't understand why he got a two game ban for a yellow card offence!! Very strange.

Should have been a red though to be fair.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:15 am

Vhero wrote:
Fish111 wrote:I don't understand why he got a two game ban for a yellow card offence!! Very strange.

Should have been a red though to be fair.


Why? Nothing in the rulebook says that ref should show red for diving. It's a yellow card offence.

What else? Should opposition side get penalty when player is offside? Perhaps straight red for taking a throw in with other foot in the air?

Populistic nonsense. Rules are the the rules and everyone should be punished according to them.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Ted Hughes » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:05 am

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
Vhero wrote:
Fish111 wrote:I don't understand why he got a two game ban for a yellow card offence!! Very strange.

Should have been a red though to be fair.


Why? Nothing in the rulebook says that ref should show red for diving. It's a yellow card offence.

What else? Should opposition side get penalty when player is offside? Perhaps straight red for taking a throw in with other foot in the air?

Populistic nonsense. Rules are the the rules and everyone should be punished according to them.



I want to see divers punished & I think he dived but to suddenly pick on him like that is ridiculous & sadly typical of these people. If the rules are to be changed then change them & THEN start banning people, not just pick on one bloke & treat him different to everyone else because some biased sod at the Scottish FA gets upset.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby City1970 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:12 am

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
City1970 wrote:I dont think its for the actual dive he got banned for, its for how he did it, and then, in Uefa's own words "Deceived the Ref". My take on this is that he knew there was no contact, but he still appealed for a penalty, that in anyones books is cheating. End of.

I think the ban is correct, diving is ruining the game, look at what the show pony over at the swamp used to get away with. In the game against Boro a couple of years ago, he won a penalty without being touch, fergiscum defended him by saying that the "Intention was there" (To commit a foul). It was ridiculous statement then, and still is now. Yesterday he was reported in the press as saying that diving was runing the game (He never said anything when Tranaldo was diving around the prem).

If you cheat, you should get punished, eduardo cheated by saying he was tripped by the goalkeeper, replays show he wasnt even touched, in fact he tripped over his own heel.

On the second point, surley people realise by now, that the powers that be (FA, Uefa, Fifa), will use any means when it suits them to get what they want, then say they cannot use the same means, when it doesnt suit them. Its all politics. Football, is now unfortunatly, a very political game.


As Toschak points out, we don't know whether it was a pre-meditated dive or if he was just getting out of the way.

But what is the most worrying here is that it's not the same rules for everyone anymore now. If they take that route then fair enough BUT from now on they need to analyse EVERY SINGLE situation like that. You see dives in every game these days, even in England. In Italy and Spain maybe dozen times in a game. When Rooney takes yet another 90th minute nosedive next saturday in White Hart Lane penalty box to earn rags a win, will governing bodies take stance? What about when that shitbag who I'll be marking on tuesday takes another dive on me and someone is video taping the game? Should I send it to Finnish FA to get this feller, binman or maybe construction worker or possibly lawyer, banned for few games?

The beauty of football for me is that it's essentially the same game with same set of rules from local park to CoMS. Referees are already allowed to show yellow card for diving everywhere, yet studying video evidence isn't available everywhere and I'm sure they aren't going to start studying every single diving incident even in top leagues. Which makes this particular ban unfair, regardless of what you think about diving (and just for the record I hate it and it's the cancer of the game).


The reason this has been singled out, is because its a high profile game, in a high profile tournament. Maybe Fifa are saying "If you dive in a Euro game, you will be punished, so beware.". I still think its the right decision.

As an aside, I read on Teletext, that Wenger said some months ago, that if you are caught diving, you should be banned for 2 matches. Its amazing what comes around. Lets see him back peddle on that one now.

Im still amazed at Fergiescums comments about diving, conseidering he has had the two of the biggest divers in the prem (Van horsey, Tranaldo), and Rooney, despite his plea's, has been caught on more than one occasion diving.

One day all the laws of the game will match up, none of this "1 rule for them, another rule for you", but it wont be im my life time.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:26 am

City1970 wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
City1970 wrote:I dont think its for the actual dive he got banned for, its for how he did it, and then, in Uefa's own words "Deceived the Ref". My take on this is that he knew there was no contact, but he still appealed for a penalty, that in anyones books is cheating. End of.

I think the ban is correct, diving is ruining the game, look at what the show pony over at the swamp used to get away with. In the game against Boro a couple of years ago, he won a penalty without being touch, fergiscum defended him by saying that the "Intention was there" (To commit a foul). It was ridiculous statement then, and still is now. Yesterday he was reported in the press as saying that diving was runing the game (He never said anything when Tranaldo was diving around the prem).

If you cheat, you should get punished, eduardo cheated by saying he was tripped by the goalkeeper, replays show he wasnt even touched, in fact he tripped over his own heel.

On the second point, surley people realise by now, that the powers that be (FA, Uefa, Fifa), will use any means when it suits them to get what they want, then say they cannot use the same means, when it doesnt suit them. Its all politics. Football, is now unfortunatly, a very political game.


As Toschak points out, we don't know whether it was a pre-meditated dive or if he was just getting out of the way.

But what is the most worrying here is that it's not the same rules for everyone anymore now. If they take that route then fair enough BUT from now on they need to analyse EVERY SINGLE situation like that. You see dives in every game these days, even in England. In Italy and Spain maybe dozen times in a game. When Rooney takes yet another 90th minute nosedive next saturday in White Hart Lane penalty box to earn rags a win, will governing bodies take stance? What about when that shitbag who I'll be marking on tuesday takes another dive on me and someone is video taping the game? Should I send it to Finnish FA to get this feller, binman or maybe construction worker or possibly lawyer, banned for few games?

The beauty of football for me is that it's essentially the same game with same set of rules from local park to CoMS. Referees are already allowed to show yellow card for diving everywhere, yet studying video evidence isn't available everywhere and I'm sure they aren't going to start studying every single diving incident even in top leagues. Which makes this particular ban unfair, regardless of what you think about diving (and just for the record I hate it and it's the cancer of the game).


The reason this has been singled out, is because its a high profile game, in a high profile tournament. Maybe Fifa are saying "If you dive in a Euro game, you will be punished, so beware.". I still think its the right decision.

As an aside, I read on Teletext, that Wenger said some months ago, that if you are caught diving, you should be banned for 2 matches. Its amazing what comes around. Lets see him back peddle on that one now.

Im still amazed at Fergiescums comments about diving, conseidering he has had the two of the biggest divers in the prem (Van horsey, Tranaldo), and Rooney, despite his plea's, has been caught on more than one occasion diving.

One day all the laws of the game will match up, none of this "1 rule for them, another rule for you", but it wont be im my life time.


That's the main problem here. Making an example just because it was (fairly) high profile game.

For me football is in many ways whole society in miniature size. Just as in society, in football there are rules that are essentially same for everyone regardless of how big or small, rich or poor you are. Just as in society, in football justice should be blind. That's why I hate it when in real life some celebrity gets in court and gets tough sentence just because they are setting an example. And that's why I hate it when player goes to "football court" and is given tougher "sentence" just because he is high profile.

And I loathe celebrities in life and divers in football. But if you set rules, they need to be the same for EVERYONE regardless of their background. If the rules (or laws) are wrong then people who set them need to look at them and see how they can be improved, not punish people in unfair way just because of their higher profile. That's very much against my sense of justice.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby Ted Hughes » Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:34 am

Surely now in the next round of Chump's league games, when someone dives, which they will, they now have to be banned? If it doesn't happen Wenger will be rightly incandescent with rage & I'm sure will be off to their offices with lawyers & video evidence.

Hope it's Rooney! Watch baconface change his tune. It'll be another 'stumble'.
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Re: Toschak Puts Some Sense In "Eduardo Incident"

Postby City1970 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:04 pm

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
City1970 wrote:
Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
City1970 wrote:I dont think its for the actual dive he got banned for, its for how he did it, and then, in Uefa's own words "Deceived the Ref". My take on this is that he knew there was no contact, but he still appealed for a penalty, that in anyones books is cheating. End of.

I think the ban is correct, diving is ruining the game, look at what the show pony over at the swamp used to get away with. In the game against Boro a couple of years ago, he won a penalty without being touch, fergiscum defended him by saying that the "Intention was there" (To commit a foul). It was ridiculous statement then, and still is now. Yesterday he was reported in the press as saying that diving was runing the game (He never said anything when Tranaldo was diving around the prem).

If you cheat, you should get punished, eduardo cheated by saying he was tripped by the goalkeeper, replays show he wasnt even touched, in fact he tripped over his own heel.

On the second point, surley people realise by now, that the powers that be (FA, Uefa, Fifa), will use any means when it suits them to get what they want, then say they cannot use the same means, when it doesnt suit them. Its all politics. Football, is now unfortunatly, a very political game.


As Toschak points out, we don't know whether it was a pre-meditated dive or if he was just getting out of the way.

But what is the most worrying here is that it's not the same rules for everyone anymore now. If they take that route then fair enough BUT from now on they need to analyse EVERY SINGLE situation like that. You see dives in every game these days, even in England. In Italy and Spain maybe dozen times in a game. When Rooney takes yet another 90th minute nosedive next saturday in White Hart Lane penalty box to earn rags a win, will governing bodies take stance? What about when that shitbag who I'll be marking on tuesday takes another dive on me and someone is video taping the game? Should I send it to Finnish FA to get this feller, binman or maybe construction worker or possibly lawyer, banned for few games?

The beauty of football for me is that it's essentially the same game with same set of rules from local park to CoMS. Referees are already allowed to show yellow card for diving everywhere, yet studying video evidence isn't available everywhere and I'm sure they aren't going to start studying every single diving incident even in top leagues. Which makes this particular ban unfair, regardless of what you think about diving (and just for the record I hate it and it's the cancer of the game).


The reason this has been singled out, is because its a high profile game, in a high profile tournament. Maybe Fifa are saying "If you dive in a Euro game, you will be punished, so beware.". I still think its the right decision.

As an aside, I read on Teletext, that Wenger said some months ago, that if you are caught diving, you should be banned for 2 matches. Its amazing what comes around. Lets see him back peddle on that one now.

Im still amazed at Fergiescums comments about diving, conseidering he has had the two of the biggest divers in the prem (Van horsey, Tranaldo), and Rooney, despite his plea's, has been caught on more than one occasion diving.

One day all the laws of the game will match up, none of this "1 rule for them, another rule for you", but it wont be im my life time.


That's the main problem here. Making an example just because it was (fairly) high profile game.

For me football is in many ways whole society in miniature size. Just as in society, in football there are rules that are essentially same for everyone regardless of how big or small, rich or poor you are. Just as in society, in football justice should be blind. That's why I hate it when in real life some celebrity gets in court and gets tough sentence just because they are setting an example. And that's why I hate it when player goes to "football court" and is given tougher "sentence" just because he is high profile.

And I loathe celebrities in life and divers in football. But if you set rules, they need to be the same for EVERYONE regardless of their background. If the rules (or laws) are wrong then people who set them need to look at them and see how they can be improved, not punish people in unfair way just because of their higher profile. That's very much against my sense of justice.


I totally agree, I think it should be the same rules for everyone. But it will never happen. Point of example, SWP gets a three match ban for kicking out at a player last year, via video evidence. Tranaldo kicks out at 3 players in 3 different games, and nothing happens. I suspect this happened because of who he was, and who he played for. Or that just could be my own personnal loathing for the player, his manager, the club and everything associated with it.

On the other hand, I was banned from driving for speeding 5 years ago and got a 4 month ban. 3 days later a footy star who was speeding faster than me, on his second offence got a 2 week ban, and a £500.00 fine. Being a celeb does have its advantages. Just as being a player at a bigger club, has its advantages, as I pointed out above with SWP.

One rule for one, another rule for the other, both benefits the "High Profile" clubs and handicaps them, and Eduardo's ban, is a point of case. I usually find that their bad luck (Bans, etc) and good luck (lucky penalties, offside goals, dodgy decisions) tends to equall itself out over the year for the "Sky 4", where us the lesser clubs (us), tend to suffer at the hands of the big 4, their managers, and the FA.
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