Appeal- possible or not?

[The Man In Blue]

Does the ban only count for League games or do Cup games count too?

cup games count.

[BlueinBosnia]

Sorry i have not read through these posts. But as it stands Ade can not play in the derby can he? And also If we appeal tommorow will it be dealt with by Sunday?

Cheers

No. As it stands, Ade can play in the Derby unless found guilty of the charges put against him by the FA.

However, City can then appeal against a guilty verdict. What we are trying to clarify is whether an appeal will be over before the Derby. If not, he will be able to play. If we appeal, and the verdict is not overturned, he is banned from the time the appeal is over. However, if we succesfully appeal, there is no ban whatsoever, or it is reduced.

there is also the possibility that if we appeal and fail, the ban could be increased.

I would rather have him for the next 3(Filth, Hammers, Villa) than the following 4 matches(Wigan, Fulham, Birmingham, Burnley) so unless they go insane on the ban increase I would rather appeal.

I'd have thought that, were the appeal unsuccesful, the ban would come into effect from midnight after the second verdict. So in your scenario of 4 games, that would mean Hammers, Villa, Wigan and Fulham. Cup matches aren't included are they? I had a feeling they were for charges, but not for on-field decisions.

[crossan]

With everyone starting their own Ade thread over the past couple of days, I've decided I may as well join in.

Some people say we'll be able to appeal, thus allowing him to be able to play for definite on sunday. Others seem to ignore this. I haven't seen an argument yet that would seem to indicate we are not able to appeal, but plenty of people appear to not think we have a hope.

So, can we appeal, and what are the likelihoods of this (bearing in mind there are 2 separate charcges) allowing him to play on sunday?

Thanks.

None.

[avoidconfusion]

Does the ban only count for League games or do Cup games count too?

cup games count.

Doesn't that mean he will be back for the Villa game then?

Manchester United Barclays Premier League
Fulham Carling Cup
West Ham United Barclays Premier League

[Beefymcfc]

Charged today by 6pm.
Appeal with evidence Tomorrow by 6pm.
Kangaroo court findings by 6pm Thursday.
Ade Banned for Scum match abd beyond.

That's the way the fast track works ain't it, so they are dealt with prior to the next game!

[Blueboylewis]

Sorry i have not read through these posts. But as it stands Ade can not play in the derby can he? And also If we appeal tommorow will it be dealt with by Sunday?

Cheers

No. As it stands, Ade can play in the Derby unless found guilty of the charges put against him by the FA.

However, City can then appeal against a guilty verdict. What we are trying to clarify is whether an appeal will be over before the Derby. If not, he will be able to play. If we appeal, and the verdict is not overturned, he is banned from the time the appeal is over. However, if we succesfully appeal, there is no ban whatsoever, or it is reduced.

there is also the possibility that if we appeal and fail, the ban could be increased.

I would rather have him for the next 3(Filth, Hammers, Villa) than the following 4 matches(Wigan, Fulham, Birmingham, Burnley) so unless they go insane on the ban increase I would rather appeal.

I'd have thought that, were the appeal unsuccesful, the ban would come into effect from midnight after the second verdict. So in your scenario of 4 games, that would mean Hammers, Villa, Wigan and Fulham. Cup matches aren't included are they? I had a feeling they were for charges, but not for on-field decisions.

Right i get you. Cheers for clarifying.

[gillie]

Help me out on this one if he pleads guilty he will get a 3 match ban right?.But as yet no punishment has been mentioned so if he appeals he is only appealing against the charge not the punishment?.Help this is making my head hurt lol.

[ronk]

Help me out on this one if he pleads guilty he will get a 3 match ban right?.But as yet no punishment has been mentioned so if he appeals he is only appealing against the charge not the punishment?.Help this is making my head hurt lol.

It's simple. He's been charged with violent conduct, he has to plead guilty (accepting a 3 match ban) or innocent by 6pm tomorrow. Case is decided by 6pm Thursday. An appeal would be after that in theory.

It's not clear whether Adebayor will be allowed play under appeal in the event that he contests the charge, is found guilty and decides to appeal or whether the (possible) appeal will be allowed take place before the game.

People are talking about an appeal because it seems a fait accompli that he will be found guilty in the first instance.

It took 2 working days for Adebayor to be charged, if the fast track process had been faster and issued the charge on Monday then there might have been a chance of completing the process this week without getting dangerously close to the game.

The fast track process has changed and this case is now in unique territory, hence the confusion, even among people who know a lot about these things.

[crossan]

Probably the honorable thing would be to accept what the FA are charging Adebayor with and move on,give the brainless tosser a good talking to and a massive internal fine,that would clean up the tainted image of our club.

[kinkylola]

Probably the honorable thing would be to accept what the FA are charging Adebayor with and move on,give the brainless tosser a good talking to and a massive internal fine,that would clean up the tainted image of our club.

yes, lay down and accept this bit of trash being thrown at us. Ignore that Adebayor says he didn't do it ... forget about getting behind our own players when they feel they are being wrongly prosecuted, instead punish them harshly. Oh! and fall back into line. good boy.

pathetic mindset.

[crossan]

Probably the honorable thing would be to accept what the FA are charging Adebayor with and move on,give the brainless tosser a good talking to and a massive internal fine,that would clean up the tainted image of our club.

yes, lay down and accept this bit of trash being thrown at us. Ignore that Adebayor says he didn't do it ... forget about getting behind our own players when they feel they are being wrongly prosecuted, instead punish them harshly. Oh! and fall back into line. good boy.

pathetic mindset.

So you did not see either incident obviously..............

[bluelingy]

From what I have read and been told
1 Charge has to be brought no later Tuesday (done)
2 we have until PM Wednesday to plead guilty and except the 3 match ban , cup games included / plead not guilty submit our evidence by fax or e mail (this would be our appeal)
3 F A meet Thursday to examine our evidence and judge accordingly - accepting our evidence and dropping the charge / dismissing our evidence and keeping the ban / or dismissing our evidence and deciding we have wasted their time and increasing the ban by one game
4 case closed no appeal allowed after Thursdays decision. Ade will miss the derby if fa dismiss our evidence on Thursday no appeal.

[kinkylola]

Probably the honorable thing would be to accept what the FA are charging Adebayor with and move on,give the brainless tosser a good talking to and a massive internal fine,that would clean up the tainted image of our club.

yes, lay down and accept this bit of trash being thrown at us. Ignore that Adebayor says he didn't do it ... forget about getting behind our own players when they feel they are being wrongly prosecuted, instead punish them harshly. Oh! and fall back into line. good boy.

pathetic mindset.

So you did not see either incident obviously..............

because i don't hold the same opinion as you? I've seen it over and over and over again in super slow motion and in regular speed.

I don't believe that it was a malicious stomp. I do believe that we have a responsibility to support our player, especially when he says that it was not malicious. I'm particularly frustrated by people who think we should just accept the charge, call our own player a brainless tosser and fine him ... for something that didn't happen the way it's being portrayed, not to mention blown entirely out of proportion..

tainted image of our club. joke.

[Original Dub]

Probably the honorable thing would be to accept what the FA are charging Adebayor with and move on,give the brainless tosser a good talking to and a massive internal fine,that would clean up the tainted image of our club.

yes, lay down and accept this bit of trash being thrown at us. Ignore that Adebayor says he didn't do it ... forget about getting behind our own players when they feel they are being wrongly prosecuted, instead punish them harshly. Oh! and fall back into line. good boy.

pathetic mindset.

So you did not see either incident obviously..............

For fuck sake Crossan, will you stop looking for the downside to everything that happens the club. Its even too miserable for you mate!

Fair enough he went to stomp on RVP's hand because of a rough challenge made on him and he will take his 3 match ban, even though the ref saw it right in front of him, let play continue and lied to the FA and everyone with a pair of eyes and said he didn't see it.

Oh and he celebrated in front of the opposition fans. I believe the punishment for doing that is a yellow card. Which he got. But now you want to jump on the media bandwagon and call him a "brainless tosser" and take further punishment lying down? Why, because the arsenal fans were at the other end of the pitch instead of closer? Because they are hooligans who can't control themselves when a player celebrates in front of them?

Because the only difference between Ade and Van Persie for the whole day and the replays that followed is that the media spotlight was on Ade and the media are the most powerful people in football. Both players kicked out at each other and both players celebrated in front of the opposition fans.

[kinkylola]

From what I have read and been told
1 Charge has to be brought no later Tuesday (done)
2 we have until PM Wednesday to plead guilty and except the 3 match ban , cup games included / plead not guilty submit our evidence by fax or e mail (this would be our appeal)
3 F A meet Thursday to examine our evidence and judge accordingly - accepting our evidence and dropping the charge / dismissing our evidence and keeping the ban / or dismissing our evidence and deciding we have wasted their time and increasing the ban by one game
4 case closed no appeal allowed after Thursdays decision. Ade will miss the derby if fa dismiss our evidence on Thursday no appeal.

Isn't ade's plead to the charge different than an appeal? An appeal takes place after a verdict is handed down, and I always understood this to be part of due process. I could definitely be wrong, and I don't know that the FA have to follow this or how it works at all really ... but If it is as I think, shouldn't our appeal happen on Thursday/whenever the actual verdict is decided?

[Wooders]

I think the FA have been holding out for such an occasion and are not delighted to have a reason to ban our top scorer for a few games

Its not the ban for the RVP incident that worries me to be honest, he claims innocence, and clattenburg proved himself to be a spineless weasel by denying he saw it (I've watched the game 5 times if you are reading this mark, you lying little cunt) but hey, even a staunch fan like me has to admit it looked a little on the "on purpose" side

what really, really makes me sick to my stomach is the fact that those animalistic arsenal fans are apparently gonna be rewarded for their feral behavior by a further ban for Ade - absolute disgrace

[bluelingy]

From what I have read and been told
1 Charge has to be brought no later Tuesday (done)
2 we have until PM Wednesday to plead guilty and except the 3 match ban , cup games included / plead not guilty submit our evidence by fax or e mail (this would be our appeal)
3 F A meet Thursday to examine our evidence and judge accordingly - accepting our evidence and dropping the charge / dismissing our evidence and keeping the ban / or dismissing our evidence and deciding we have wasted their time and increasing the ban by one game
4 case closed no appeal allowed after Thursdays decision. Ade will miss the derby if fa dismiss our evidence on Thursday no appeal.

Isn't ade's plead to the charge different than an appeal? An appeal takes place after a verdict is handed down, and I always understood this to be part of due process. I could definitely be wrong, and I don't know that the FA have to follow this or how it works at all really ... but If it is as I think, shouldn't our appeal happen on Thursday/whenever the actual verdict is decided?

i think he can only appeal the lengh of ban should it be increased over the originl 3 match, can not appeal the desision should he lose on thursday!

Standard Directions for Incidents on the Field of Play which fall within Law 12, which were
not seen by Match Officials, but caught on video (serious foul play, violent conduct, spitting
at an opponent or any other person, offensive, insulting or abusive language or gestures)
For Players of Clubs of the FA Premier League, Football League and Football Conference
National Division

(a) General Principles
These Standard Directions are subject to the terms of the Regulations of The Association
and the relevant Memorandum. In the case of any conflict, first the Regulations and then
the relevant Memorandum will apply.
These are Standard Directions; they may be deviated from at the discretion of the
Regulatory Commission dealing with any given case, if the circumstances of that case so
dictate.
Under these Standard Directions, The Association may charge a Player with Misconduct
under the Rules of The Association for incidents on or around the Field of Play, excluding
the tunnel area, that are caught on camera but not seen and dealt with by the Match
Officials at the time. The Charge will be accompanied by an offer of the automatic penalty
that would apply to the offence had it been seen and reported by the Match Official(s)
during the match.
Where the player charged has been suspended due to a dismissal or under these Standard
Directions earlier in the same season, the penalty offered shall be increased to include, in
addition to the applicable automatic penalty, one game for each occasion that the player has
been so suspended.
For these purposes a dismissal earlier in the same season in a non first team competitive
match will only be taken into account where it is for violent conduct, serious foul play or
spitting.
A written statement by Match Officials that they did not witness a particular incident shall
be conclusive evidence of that fact.

(b) Timings
(i) The Charge
A Charge under these provisions may only be issued within the period of two working
days of the incident (i.e. for a Saturday/Sunday game, a Charge will usually have to be
issued prior to 6pm on the Tuesday). The Charge will be accompanied by all evidence,
documents and written submissions upon which The Association intends to rely.
(ii) The Reply
The Player is required to respond to the Charge in writing by 6pm on the first working
day following receipt of the Charge (either by fax 020 7745 5777 or by e-mail
Disciplinary@TheFA.com). In the absence of a Reply, the matter will be dealt with
directly at the next available Regulatory Commission, and submissions from the Player
may not be admitted.
The Player may accept the Charge and penalty offered or deny the Charge. In the
event that the offered punishment is accepted, the suspension will commence
forthwith upon receipt by The Association of the consent of the chairman of the
Judicial Panel (or his nominee).
(iii) Submissions
Along with the Reply, by 6pm on the first working day following the Charge, the Club
or Player must provide The Association and the Regulatory Commission with copies of
all evidence, documents and written submissions upon which the Club or the Player
intends to rely. If the evidence, documents and written submissions are not submitted
within this time limit, they may not be considered by the Regulatory Commission.
As a guide the following schedule will apply:
Incident Charge Reply Submissions Commission
Sat/ Sun Tuesday Wednesday Wednesday Thursday

(c) Regulatory Commission Procedures
The following procedures shall be followed at the Regulatory Commission unless the
Regulatory Commission thinks it appropriate to amend them:
(i) Reports along with any other evidence, including video evidence, in support of the
Charge, shall be put before the Regulatory Commission by the Secretary of the
Regulatory Commission;
(ii) All statements and video or other evidence in defence of the Charge shall be put
before the Regulatory Commission by the Secretary of the Regulatory Commission.
For offences alleged to have been committed in the same match, where there is common
Association or defence evidence the Regulatory Commission shall hear all evidence at the
same hearing. Evidence adduced in the defence of a Player shall be capable of constituting
evidence against another Player. The Regulatory Commission shall give appropriate weight
to such evidence. The Regulatory Commission will generally hear evidence in chronological
order of the alleged events but shall have complete discretion to take matters out of order
for timely, efficient and appropriate disposal of the proceedings.

(d) Decisions
The Regulatory Commission will decide whether the Charge is proved or not proved. In the
event that the Charge is proved, the Regulatory Commission will have the power to impose
the original penalty offered or to increase the penalty if it believes a denial to have been an
abuse of process or frivolous.
In the event that the Charge is not proved, the Charge will be dismissed.
The decision of the Regulatory Commission will be communicated verbally to the
Player/Club on the same day as the decision is reached, and in writing by the end of the
following working day.

(e) Right of Appeal
The Player will have a right of appeal only in the event that a penalty is ordered in excess of
a three-match suspension. The Player may only appeal against the level of penalty imposed
and only in respect of that part of the suspension in excess of three matches. No other
appeal (for instance, against the decision that the Charge was pursued) is allowed.
Information regarding the appeals process is set out in the Standard Directions for Appeals
against decisions of Regulatory Commissions (see Schedule C).

(f) Written Reasons
A request for written reasons in respect of the decision of the Regulatory Commission may
be lodged with the Regulatory Commission, in which case the request must be made at the
time of verbal notification of the decision (i.e. on the same day as the Regulatory
Commission). If requested, written reasons will be supplied to parties by 6pm on the first
working day following the Regulatory Commission.

(g) Representation
A Player does not have the right to be present or represented at a hearing of a Regulatory
Commission in respect of incidents covered by this Standard Direction. The matter will be
dealt with on video and written evidence only.

[Original Dub]

I'll tell you what...

The more I hear of this new 'fast track' system, the more it stinks. It is there to make appeals more of a ballache than anything else. Basically, if Ade appeals, he misses the next three matches and the one after if it suits the FA. Or he can shut up and just miss the three matches.

What's the bets the amount of appeals lodged this year in the prem lessen greatly? Is it because the players believe in the judicial system within the FA or because "its just not worth it"?

[kinkylola]

very sad if true dub ... and thanks for taking the time to dig that out bluelingy

[Ted Hughes]

I'm absolutely convinced that in a court of law, they'd be able to quite quickly show that it's impossible to prove intent in this case & throw it out, yet I'm also convinced that this lot will find him guilty whatever the evidence. Imo they just won't look at it properly, whereas in court they'd have to.