De Jong

[Beefymcfc]

NQDP (or amyone who cares to answer), I keep reading posts on how shit Nigel was in the 2nd half of the Derby match and how you keep reverting back to this point and although I respect your opinion, I do disagree.

This is not a swipe at you or any who had those thoughts, and won't be thrown back in your face. So, I'd like to know, 'Who would you now choose in that role, Nigel or Zab; or do you have another?'.

I agree with Socrates. The whole system of basically having five defenders is poor thinking. Especially as you know that if you start backtracking against Rags thery will punish you. Without exception. Always.

I wouldn't have replaced at halftime but 15 minutes into second half it was clear that he had completely lost midfield battle and raised his hands up. I mean, Andersson and Fletcher were running rings around him for whole 45 mins. At this stage changes needed to be made. Personally I would've thrown Petrov in to stretch their defence. Hughes did that twenty minutes too late and they had already put us under enormous pressure for which we eventually paid.


I stand by my opinion that anyone who claims otherwise, simply weren't watching the game. If you are unsure I'd suggest you watch the game again. I have done that, twice now and I stand by my original opinion (although I should have worded it better).

Thanks for replying Antti, but at the same time, why try to have a pop! You say you agree with Jon on the 5 defenders thing, yet this is the same system that got us 3 points against Chelsea and Arsenal, points away to Liverpool and Villa and a undeserved loss against the Scum. We didn't play him against an Arsenal youth and he wasn't on the bench; why, was he needed?

As for the game, yes, Taggart had instructed his players to move it away from Nigel due to the fact that he had killed everything they had done, but even so, how did the game actually go. Scum score, we score. Scum score, we score. And once again, scum score, we score (after Hughes made the change).

And to infer I watch the game again to actually tell me that you are right is just getting a little silly. Let's just say I watched it enough times at the time, and a few times more, and would still come out with the same opinion. We narrowly lost to the league champions and I accept that the referee and Taggart influenced the outcome. What I also accept is that people have opinions on games and see things differently, but what I don't accept is people who use the a loss in these circumstances to actually attack one of our players, and furthermore, to blame it on the manager for picking him!

This is your thread mate, which I tried to suggest was over, but obviously people have a point to prove. So, seeing as nobody answered the question I'll ask once again.

Who would you prefer in that position, Nigel or Zab?

[Socrates]

Sorry Bovril but we didn't play the 5 efender system against Chelsea. NDJ played further forward than before and my skyfairy did the team benefit from it!

[Beefymcfc]

Sorry Bovril but we didn't play the 5 efender system against Chelsea. NDJ played further forward than before and my skyfairy did the team benefit from it!

Cheers Soc, I like Skyfairy, suits me down to the troposphere. As for the 5 defender theory against Chelsea, if Nigel plays a DM role, as he has done in every game so far, why was he playing such a forward role?

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I didn't fancy reading all of this thread as I basically don't agree with the anti NDJ argument but I think I read something about NDJ playing further forward. Is the suggestion that he was playing more of an attacking midfield role and pushing on more?

He played in exactly the same role against Chelski as he always plays and that's just in front of the back four. Thus in a way he remains part of a back 5 but the good news of course was the back 4 part was pushing up higher.

[Blueboylewis]

I have never had doubts when it comes to De Jong. A fantastic player and these last few games, He has showed us all what he can do.

What a player

[Beefymcfc]

I didn't fancy reading all of this thread as I basically don't agree with the anti NDJ argument but I think I read something about NDJ playing further forward. Is the suggestion that he was playing more of an attacking midfield role and pushing on more?

He played in exactly the same role against Chelski as he always plays and that's just in front of the back four. Thus in a way he remains part of a back 5 but the good news of course was the back 4 part was pushing up higher.

Great news mate, and exactly as I seen it. Strangely enough, the team do have a game plan which allows it to change whilst the game is in motion. One minute in defence, the next in attack.

I have never had doubts when it comes to De Jong. A fantastic player and these last few games, He has showed us all what he can do.

What a player

And if all agree, that should be the end of it!

[Socrates]

Sorry Bovril but we didn't play the 5 efender system against Chelsea. NDJ played further forward than before and my skyfairy did the team benefit from it!

Cheers Soc, I like Skyfairy, suits me down to the troposphere. As for the 5 defender theory against Chelsea, if Nigel plays a DM role, as he has done in every game so far, why was he playing such a forward role?

He played much more box to box if you take the trouble to watch the match again (i.e. more dispassionately), yes as DH says the back 4 pushed up further but the gap to NDJ was bigger too and he was moving in and out of it more. He popped up in the box on occasion which is definitely a first. NDJ himself has said in the past that this is his preferred role and I can now see his point.

[simon12]

If I had a dog I would photograph it`s boillox and post it as that`s how I see NDJ....Literally

[ronk]

If I had a dog I would photograph it`s boillox and post it as that`s how I see NDJ....Literally

Because that would bring out the best in this thread...

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

NQDP (or amyone who cares to answer), I keep reading posts on how shit Nigel was in the 2nd half of the Derby match and how you keep reverting back to this point and although I respect your opinion, I do disagree.

This is not a swipe at you or any who had those thoughts, and won't be thrown back in your face. So, I'd like to know, 'Who would you now choose in that role, Nigel or Zab; or do you have another?'.

I agree with Socrates. The whole system of basically having five defenders is poor thinking. Especially as you know that if you start backtracking against Rags thery will punish you. Without exception. Always.

I wouldn't have replaced at halftime but 15 minutes into second half it was clear that he had completely lost midfield battle and raised his hands up. I mean, Andersson and Fletcher were running rings around him for whole 45 mins. At this stage changes needed to be made. Personally I would've thrown Petrov in to stretch their defence. Hughes did that twenty minutes too late and they had already put us under enormous pressure for which we eventually paid.


I stand by my opinion that anyone who claims otherwise, simply weren't watching the game. If you are unsure I'd suggest you watch the game again. I have done that, twice now and I stand by my original opinion (although I should have worded it better).

Thanks for replying Antti, but at the same time, why try to have a pop! You say you agree with Jon on the 5 defenders thing, yet this is the same system that got us 3 points against Chelsea and Arsenal, points away to Liverpool and Villa and a undeserved loss against the Scum. We didn't play him against an Arsenal youth and he wasn't on the bench; why, was he needed?

As for the game, yes, Taggart had instructed his players to move it away from Nigel due to the fact that he had killed everything they had done, but even so, how did the game actually go. Scum score, we score. Scum score, we score. And once again, scum score, we score (after Hughes made the change).

And to infer I watch the game again to actually tell me that you are right is just getting a little silly. Let's just say I watched it enough times at the time, and a few times more, and would still come out with the same opinion. We narrowly lost to the league champions and I accept that the referee and Taggart influenced the outcome. What I also accept is that people have opinions on games and see things differently, but what I don't accept is people who use the a loss in these circumstances to actually attack one of our players, and furthermore, to blame it on the manager for picking him!

This is your thread mate, which I tried to suggest was over, but obviously people have a point to prove. So, seeing as nobody answered the question I'll ask once again.

Who would you prefer in that position, Nigel or Zab?

I wasn't having a pop! Certainly not in purpose. Sory if it came through like that.

Obviously we simply disagree about De Jong's performance in second half of the Derby. I thought he was really poor. Like you said, Taggart instructed his players to make pitch wider and hit us from the wings but that was to be expected, especially after they threw Valencia in for Park who was constantly cutting in. However, I seem to recall posting it on the official match thread (or maybe saying it to a mate of mine I was watching the game with) as well, I thought De Jong stopped all the movement and wasn't following the ball at all. He simply stopped working hard enough.

Who I would prefer as holding midfielder? Do you mean in Derby? I would've taken off De Jong as his movement had stopped and previous weeks he had been fairly inactive as well. I would've either thrown in Petrov to put some attacking pressure on them as I genuinely feel that attack is best form of defence against Taggarts sides. The way he sets up his sides, if you start backtracking you are dead. Other option would've been to throw in Zabaleta who is proper never-say-die player and in my opinion would've suited the game in second half better. Like I said, Hughes drew same conclusions only later in the game by taking De Jong off.

Who I'd like as defensive midfielder right now or more importantly, in the future? Well that's trickier question. De Jong has been in excellent form for past two months so shouldn't be replaced right now. However personally I'm not big fan of one dimensional defensive midfielders. I prefer players who are willing to join attacks every now and then and can crack a decent shot from distance. De Jong is a battler and he is nice to watch but in many games our overall attacking play has suffered from him being so negative when he is on the ball. But that's more down to personal preference of how I see the game should be played especially with kind of talent we have got. I've repeated it time and time again that I like teams that attack AND defend as a team. I might be crucified for this but what the hell.... I would actually play Kompany over De Jong. BUT there's two positions I would like to see new players in the future and I would REALLY love a top quality dynamic midfielder.

[Beefymcfc]

Sorry Bovril but we didn't play the 5 efender system against Chelsea. NDJ played further forward than before and my skyfairy did the team benefit from it!

Cheers Soc, I like Skyfairy, suits me down to the troposphere. As for the 5 defender theory against Chelsea, if Nigel plays a DM role, as he has done in every game so far, why was he playing such a forward role?

He played much more box to box if you take the trouble to watch the match again (i.e. more dispassionately), yes as DH says the back 4 pushed up further but the gap to NDJ was bigger too and he was moving in and out of it more. He popped up in the box on occasion which is definitely a first. NDJ himself has said in the past that this is his preferred role and I can now see his point.

What, another one who wants me to watch the match again, how many times do I have to watch it? Thanks for answering the question though, he played further forward due to the back four pushing further up the pitch, but essentially his role was exactly the same as every other game he's played - to break up their play and give us possession, which he did very effectively. We were playing Chelsea and we outplayed them, allowing Nigel to not only defend, but also allow him to push on.

Now the defence is settling in, Nige will get more opportunities to push on, which strangely enough, would be what any player in his position would do if the opportunity arises - we don't need 5 players in our half when we are bossing the game!

[Beefymcfc]

I wasn't having a pop! Certainly not in purpose. Sory if it came through like that.

Obviously we simply disagree about De Jong's performance in second half of the Derby. I thought he was really poor. Like you said, Taggart instructed his players to make pitch wider and hit us from the wings but that was to be expected, especially after they threw Valencia in for Park who was constantly cutting in. However, I seem to recall posting it on the official match thread (or maybe saying it to a mate of mine I was watching the game with) as well, I thought De Jong stopped all the movement and wasn't following the ball at all. He simply stopped working hard enough.

Who I would prefer as holding midfielder? Do you mean in Derby? I would've taken off De Jong as his movement had stopped and previous weeks he had been fairly inactive as well. I would've either thrown in Petrov to put some attacking pressure on them as I genuinely feel that attack is best form of defence against Taggarts sides. The way he sets up his sides, if you start backtracking you are dead. Other option would've been to throw in Zabaleta who is proper never-say-die player and in my opinion would've suited the game in second half better. Like I said, Hughes drew same conclusions only later in the game by taking De Jong off.

Who I'd like as defensive midfielder right now or more importantly, in the future? Well that's trickier question. De Jong has been in excellent form for past two months so shouldn't be replaced right now. However personally I'm not big fan of one dimensional defensive midfielders. I prefer players who are willing to join attacks every now and then and can crack a decent shot from distance. De Jong is a battler and he is nice to watch but in many games our overall attacking play has suffered from him being so negative when he is on the ball. But that's more down to personal preference of how I see the game should be played especially with kind of talent we have got. I've repeated it time and time again that I like teams that attack AND defend as a team. I might be crucified for this but what the hell.... I would actually play Kompany over De Jong. BUT there's two positions I would like to see new players in the future and I would REALLY love a top quality dynamic midfielder.

Nice post mate, thanks for your answer. Don't need to say much more on this subject apart from Nigel has come on even stronger since that day. He is not the box-to-box player that I would like to see against the lesser teams who won't put as much pressure on our back four, but he is the ultimate fighter that I want to see breaking up the play of the more attacking, top rated teams.

We are now a squad, not just a team so the proverbial 'Horses for courses' rings out once again!

[Hazy]

I wasn't having a pop! Certainly not in purpose. Sory if it came through like that.

Obviously we simply disagree about De Jong's performance in second half of the Derby. I thought he was really poor. Like you said, Taggart instructed his players to make pitch wider and hit us from the wings but that was to be expected, especially after they threw Valencia in for Park who was constantly cutting in. However, I seem to recall posting it on the official match thread (or maybe saying it to a mate of mine I was watching the game with) as well, I thought De Jong stopped all the movement and wasn't following the ball at all. He simply stopped working hard enough.

Who I would prefer as holding midfielder? Do you mean in Derby? I would've taken off De Jong as his movement had stopped and previous weeks he had been fairly inactive as well. I would've either thrown in Petrov to put some attacking pressure on them as I genuinely feel that attack is best form of defence against Taggarts sides. The way he sets up his sides, if you start backtracking you are dead. Other option would've been to throw in Zabaleta who is proper never-say-die player and in my opinion would've suited the game in second half better. Like I said, Hughes drew same conclusions only later in the game by taking De Jong off.

Who I'd like as defensive midfielder right now or more importantly, in the future? Well that's trickier question. De Jong has been in excellent form for past two months so shouldn't be replaced right now. However personally I'm not big fan of one dimensional defensive midfielders. I prefer players who are willing to join attacks every now and then and can crack a decent shot from distance. De Jong is a battler and he is nice to watch but in many games our overall attacking play has suffered from him being so negative when he is on the ball. But that's more down to personal preference of how I see the game should be played especially with kind of talent we have got. I've repeated it time and time again that I like teams that attack AND defend as a team. I might be crucified for this but what the hell.... I would actually play Kompany over De Jong. BUT there's two positions I would like to see new players in the future and I would REALLY love a top quality dynamic midfielder.

Nice post mate, thanks for your answer. Don't need to say much more on this subject apart from Nigel has come on even stronger since that day. He is not the box-to-box player that I would like to see against the lesser teams who won't put as much pressure on our back four, but he is the ultimate fighter that I want to see breaking up the play of the more attacking, top rated teams.

We are now a squad, not just a team so the proverbial 'Horses for courses' rings out once again!

Horse shit, I prefer Kompany ove De Jong, I would love to have heard anyone in the highest crowd ever at Coms ! anyone say that at 7.45 last Saturday, you would have been laughed out of the ground mate laughable comment after the week we have had and somes you up., as for 1 trick pony De Jong has over 40 caps for Holland he has just eaten Essien for dinner, how do you come to prefering anyone to a player who the whole crowd last Saturday gave a standing ovation to. MIND BOGGLES. Stop the bollocks talk and fans who go home and away like me might take your computed version seriously. Until then keep watching !

[Beefymcfc]

I wasn't having a pop! Certainly not in purpose. Sory if it came through like that.

Obviously we simply disagree about De Jong's performance in second half of the Derby. I thought he was really poor. Like you said, Taggart instructed his players to make pitch wider and hit us from the wings but that was to be expected, especially after they threw Valencia in for Park who was constantly cutting in. However, I seem to recall posting it on the official match thread (or maybe saying it to a mate of mine I was watching the game with) as well, I thought De Jong stopped all the movement and wasn't following the ball at all. He simply stopped working hard enough.

Who I would prefer as holding midfielder? Do you mean in Derby? I would've taken off De Jong as his movement had stopped and previous weeks he had been fairly inactive as well. I would've either thrown in Petrov to put some attacking pressure on them as I genuinely feel that attack is best form of defence against Taggarts sides. The way he sets up his sides, if you start backtracking you are dead. Other option would've been to throw in Zabaleta who is proper never-say-die player and in my opinion would've suited the game in second half better. Like I said, Hughes drew same conclusions only later in the game by taking De Jong off.

Who I'd like as defensive midfielder right now or more importantly, in the future? Well that's trickier question. De Jong has been in excellent form for past two months so shouldn't be replaced right now. However personally I'm not big fan of one dimensional defensive midfielders. I prefer players who are willing to join attacks every now and then and can crack a decent shot from distance. De Jong is a battler and he is nice to watch but in many games our overall attacking play has suffered from him being so negative when he is on the ball. But that's more down to personal preference of how I see the game should be played especially with kind of talent we have got. I've repeated it time and time again that I like teams that attack AND defend as a team. I might be crucified for this but what the hell.... I would actually play Kompany over De Jong. BUT there's two positions I would like to see new players in the future and I would REALLY love a top quality dynamic midfielder.

Nice post mate, thanks for your answer. Don't need to say much more on this subject apart from Nigel has come on even stronger since that day. He is not the box-to-box player that I would like to see against the lesser teams who won't put as much pressure on our back four, but he is the ultimate fighter that I want to see breaking up the play of the more attacking, top rated teams.

We are now a squad, not just a team so the proverbial 'Horses for courses' rings out once again!

Horse shit, I prefer Kompany ove De Jong, I would love to have heard anyone in the highest crowd ever at Coms ! anyone say that at 7.45 last Saturday, you would have been laughed out of the ground mate laughable comment after the week we have had and somes you up., as for 1 trick pony De Jong has over 40 caps for Holland he has just eaten Essien for dinner, how do you come to prefering anyone to a player who the whole crowd last Saturday gave a standing ovation to. MIND BOGGLES. Stop the bollocks talk and fans who go home and away like me might take your computed version seriously. Until then keep watching !

I guess that was aimed at Antti mate. He is entitled to his opinion.........................just as you are entitled to yours ;-)

[Hazy]

Yes mate aimed at NDQP. good lad but needs to do an away game with us, comment like his would have him tied up and left in the bogs at Keele/Sanbach, The negative refs to De Jong whilst praising him are worthy of some award for stoopid coments on 2009. He wins hands down.

[mcfc1632]

Yes mate aimed at NDQP. good lad but needs to do an away game with us, comment like his would have him tied up and left in the bogs at Keele/Sanbach, The negative refs to De Jong whilst praising him are worthy of some award for stoopid coments on 2009. He wins hands down.

Off topic - but I do not want to start a new thread......

I am popping back from Hols tomorrow night to take in the Bolton and Spurs games - are you aware of the local meeting pubs for those games??

[Hazy]

Yes mate aimed at NDQP. good lad but needs to do an away game with us, comment like his would have him tied up and left in the bogs at Keele/Sanbach, The negative refs to De Jong whilst praising him are worthy of some award for stoopid coments on 2009. He wins hands down.

Off topic - but I do not want to start a new thread......

I am popping back from Hols tomorrow night to take in the Bolton and Spurs games - are you aware of the local meeting pubs for those games??

Beehive I think and another one I will ask and re-post.

[mcfc1632]

Yes mate aimed at NDQP. good lad but needs to do an away game with us, comment like his would have him tied up and left in the bogs at Keele/Sanbach, The negative refs to De Jong whilst praising him are worthy of some award for stoopid coments on 2009. He wins hands down.

Off topic - but I do not want to start a new thread......

I am popping back from Hols tomorrow night to take in the Bolton and Spurs games - are you aware of the local meeting pubs for those games??

Beehive I think and another one I will ask and re-post.

Thanks - that will be a great help

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I wasn't having a pop! Certainly not in purpose. Sory if it came through like that.

Obviously we simply disagree about De Jong's performance in second half of the Derby. I thought he was really poor. Like you said, Taggart instructed his players to make pitch wider and hit us from the wings but that was to be expected, especially after they threw Valencia in for Park who was constantly cutting in. However, I seem to recall posting it on the official match thread (or maybe saying it to a mate of mine I was watching the game with) as well, I thought De Jong stopped all the movement and wasn't following the ball at all. He simply stopped working hard enough.

Who I would prefer as holding midfielder? Do you mean in Derby? I would've taken off De Jong as his movement had stopped and previous weeks he had been fairly inactive as well. I would've either thrown in Petrov to put some attacking pressure on them as I genuinely feel that attack is best form of defence against Taggarts sides. The way he sets up his sides, if you start backtracking you are dead. Other option would've been to throw in Zabaleta who is proper never-say-die player and in my opinion would've suited the game in second half better. Like I said, Hughes drew same conclusions only later in the game by taking De Jong off.

Who I'd like as defensive midfielder right now or more importantly, in the future? Well that's trickier question. De Jong has been in excellent form for past two months so shouldn't be replaced right now. However personally I'm not big fan of one dimensional defensive midfielders. I prefer players who are willing to join attacks every now and then and can crack a decent shot from distance. De Jong is a battler and he is nice to watch but in many games our overall attacking play has suffered from him being so negative when he is on the ball. But that's more down to personal preference of how I see the game should be played especially with kind of talent we have got. I've repeated it time and time again that I like teams that attack AND defend as a team. I might be crucified for this but what the hell.... I would actually play Kompany over De Jong. BUT there's two positions I would like to see new players in the future and I would REALLY love a top quality dynamic midfielder.

Nice post mate, thanks for your answer. Don't need to say much more on this subject apart from Nigel has come on even stronger since that day. He is not the box-to-box player that I would like to see against the lesser teams who won't put as much pressure on our back four, but he is the ultimate fighter that I want to see breaking up the play of the more attacking, top rated teams.

We are now a squad, not just a team so the proverbial 'Horses for courses' rings out once again!

Horse shit, I prefer Kompany ove De Jong, I would love to have heard anyone in the highest crowd ever at Coms ! anyone say that at 7.45 last Saturday, you would have been laughed out of the ground mate laughable comment after the week we have had and somes you up., as for 1 trick pony De Jong has over 40 caps for Holland he has just eaten Essien for dinner, how do you come to prefering anyone to a player who the whole crowd last Saturday gave a standing ovation to. MIND BOGGLES. Stop the bollocks talk and fans who go home and away like me might take your computed version seriously. Until then keep watching !

Where was I questioning De Jong's performance against Chelsea? And I'm not asking you to take my opinion seriously, that's completely up to you. I'm sure that if we were standing there side by side (who knows we haven't?) I'd still see the game very differently. Wenger and Taggart see game differently.

[Hazy]

I wasn't having a pop! Certainly not in purpose. Sory if it came through like that.

Obviously we simply disagree about De Jong's performance in second half of the Derby. I thought he was really poor. Like you said, Taggart instructed his players to make pitch wider and hit us from the wings but that was to be expected, especially after they threw Valencia in for Park who was constantly cutting in. However, I seem to recall posting it on the official match thread (or maybe saying it to a mate of mine I was watching the game with) as well, I thought De Jong stopped all the movement and wasn't following the ball at all. He simply stopped working hard enough.

Who I would prefer as holding midfielder? Do you mean in Derby? I would've taken off De Jong as his movement had stopped and previous weeks he had been fairly inactive as well. I would've either thrown in Petrov to put some attacking pressure on them as I genuinely feel that attack is best form of defence against Taggarts sides. The way he sets up his sides, if you start backtracking you are dead. Other option would've been to throw in Zabaleta who is proper never-say-die player and in my opinion would've suited the game in second half better. Like I said, Hughes drew same conclusions only later in the game by taking De Jong off.

Who I'd like as defensive midfielder right now or more importantly, in the future? Well that's trickier question. De Jong has been in excellent form for past two months so shouldn't be replaced right now. However personally I'm not big fan of one dimensional defensive midfielders. I prefer players who are willing to join attacks every now and then and can crack a decent shot from distance. De Jong is a battler and he is nice to watch but in many games our overall attacking play has suffered from him being so negative when he is on the ball. But that's more down to personal preference of how I see the game should be played especially with kind of talent we have got. I've repeated it time and time again that I like teams that attack AND defend as a team. I might be crucified for this but what the hell.... I would actually play Kompany over De Jong. BUT there's two positions I would like to see new players in the future and I would REALLY love a top quality dynamic midfielder.

Nice post mate, thanks for your answer. Don't need to say much more on this subject apart from Nigel has come on even stronger since that day. He is not the box-to-box player that I would like to see against the lesser teams who won't put as much pressure on our back four, but he is the ultimate fighter that I want to see breaking up the play of the more attacking, top rated teams.

We are now a squad, not just a team so the proverbial 'Horses for courses' rings out once again!

Horse shit, I prefer Kompany ove De Jong, I would love to have heard anyone in the highest crowd ever at Coms ! anyone say that at 7.45 last Saturday, you would have been laughed out of the ground mate laughable comment after the week we have had and somes you up., as for 1 trick pony De Jong has over 40 caps for Holland he has just eaten Essien for dinner, how do you come to prefering anyone to a player who the whole crowd last Saturday gave a standing ovation to. MIND BOGGLES. Stop the bollocks talk and fans who go home and away like me might take your computed version seriously. Until then keep watching !

Where was I questioning De Jong's performance against Chelsea? And I'm not asking you to take my opinion seriously, that's completely up to you. I'm sure that if we were standing there side by side (who knows we haven't?) I'd still see the game very differently. Wenger and Taggart see game differently.

Of course it is a game of opinions, and views vary, lets all enjoy what Hughes is doing and roll on Bolton.