Top four and no cup or top six and a cup?

[BlueinBosnia]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

[Vhero]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

Probably ever since nobody else got in people on here talk about Leeds and Newcastle but it wasn't the Big 4 then obviously was it? Also back when Newcastle and Leeds got in they couldn't afford big names when they did well Leeds could but we all know THAT story and look what Newcastle did... They used that top 4 spot to pull in the big names especially Leeds..

[edge275]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

When Chelsea got the cash and finished second.

[BlueinBosnia]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

Probably ever since nobody else got in people on here talk about Leeds and Newcastle but it wasn't the Big 4 then obviously was it? Also back when Newcastle and Leeds got in they couldn't afford big names when they did well Leeds could but we all know THAT story and look what Newcastle did... They used that top 4 spot to pull in the big names especially Leeds..

So world-record transfer signing Alan Shearer was a sign of Newcastle not being able to 'afford big names'? I'd say the big 4 started to emerge with 4 teams dominating both domestic and european competition, in about 1998. Otherwise Liverpool weren't a 'big 4' club when they won the UEFA cup (2001), in which case the European Semis and Finals of Rags, Arsenal and Chelsea around that time can't be considered part of the 'big 4' dominance.

[edge275]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

Probably ever since nobody else got in people on here talk about Leeds and Newcastle but it wasn't the Big 4 then obviously was it? Also back when Newcastle and Leeds got in they couldn't afford big names when they did well Leeds could but we all know THAT story and look what Newcastle did... They used that top 4 spot to pull in the big names especially Leeds..

So world-record transfer signing Alan Shearer was a sign of Newcastle not being able to 'afford big names'? I'd say the big 4 started to emerge with 4 teams dominating both domestic and european competition, in about 1998. Otherwise Liverpool weren't a 'big 4' club when they won the UEFA cup (2001), in which case the European Semis and Finals of Rags, Arsenal and Chelsea around that time can't be considered part of the 'big 4' dominance.

Big 4 in 1998? Bollocks.

[edge275]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

Probably ever since nobody else got in people on here talk about Leeds and Newcastle but it wasn't the Big 4 then obviously was it? Also back when Newcastle and Leeds got in they couldn't afford big names when they did well Leeds could but we all know THAT story and look what Newcastle did... They used that top 4 spot to pull in the big names especially Leeds..

So world-record transfer signing Alan Shearer was a sign of Newcastle not being able to 'afford big names'? I'd say the big 4 started to emerge with 4 teams dominating both domestic and european competition, in about 1998. Otherwise Liverpool weren't a 'big 4' club when they won the UEFA cup (2001), in which case the European Semis and Finals of Rags, Arsenal and Chelsea around that time can't be considered part of the 'big 4' dominance.

Big 4 in 1998? Bollocks.

[BlueinBosnia]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

When Chelsea got the cash and finished second.

Chelsea, in the 6 years pre-Abramovich:
FA Cup 1997, 2000. Runners up 2002.
League Cup 1998
European Cup Winners' Cup 1998

[Vhero]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

Probably ever since nobody else got in people on here talk about Leeds and Newcastle but it wasn't the Big 4 then obviously was it? Also back when Newcastle and Leeds got in they couldn't afford big names when they did well Leeds could but we all know THAT story and look what Newcastle did... They used that top 4 spot to pull in the big names especially Leeds..

So world-record transfer signing Alan Shearer was a sign of Newcastle not being able to 'afford big names'? I'd say the big 4 started to emerge with 4 teams dominating both domestic and european competition, in about 1998. Otherwise Liverpool weren't a 'big 4' club when they won the UEFA cup (2001), in which case the European Semis and Finals of Rags, Arsenal and Chelsea around that time can't be considered part of the 'big 4' dominance.

Big 4 in 1998? Bollocks.

Agreed (with Edge) and as for Alan Shearer that was a 1 off that wasn't like they went and did a fucking City or Real Madrid was it? Not to mention he was a fan of the club which helped swayed the guy.

[Mike_BM]

Top six and a cup definately

[MaineRoadMemories]

winning trophies everytime. The Chelsea approach would work well, a league cup a couple of FA Cups, the Europa Cup and then take on the Champions League. If I had my way only the bloody winners of the league would be allowed in the Champions League anyway.

[edge275]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

When Chelsea got the cash and finished second.

Chelsea, in the 6 years pre-Abramovich:
FA Cup 1997, 2000. Runners up 2002.
League Cup 1998
European Cup Winners' Cup 1998

What were their league positions from 1998?

They were never considered top 4 until Roman came in and they finished second.

[BlueinBosnia]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

Probably ever since nobody else got in people on here talk about Leeds and Newcastle but it wasn't the Big 4 then obviously was it? Also back when Newcastle and Leeds got in they couldn't afford big names when they did well Leeds could but we all know THAT story and look what Newcastle did... They used that top 4 spot to pull in the big names especially Leeds..

So world-record transfer signing Alan Shearer was a sign of Newcastle not being able to 'afford big names'? I'd say the big 4 started to emerge with 4 teams dominating both domestic and european competition, in about 1998. Otherwise Liverpool weren't a 'big 4' club when they won the UEFA cup (2001), in which case the European Semis and Finals of Rags, Arsenal and Chelsea around that time can't be considered part of the 'big 4' dominance.

Big 4 in 1998? Bollocks.

As a phrase, totally agree. Success-wise, look again.

The facts don't lie. 6 of the 36 domestic trophies since that time (5 of those being league cups) have been won by clubs not currently considered 'big 4', and no European honours (but 1 runner up spot). Compare that to 30 domestic and 6 European honours (plus 5 runner up places).

[bluej]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

When Chelsea got the cash and finished second.

Chelsea, in the 6 years pre-Abramovich:
FA Cup 1997, 2000. Runners up 2002.
League Cup 1998
European Cup Winners' Cup 1998

What were their league positions from 1998?

They were never considered top 4 until Roman came in and they finished second.

98/99 - 3rd
99/00 - 5th
00/01 - 6th
01/02 - 6th
02/03 - 4th
03/04 - 2nd (Abramovich)

[edge275]

Slightly off the point this, but when does everyone consider the 'big 4' to have started? Is it with 4 CL spots being offered to English clubs, or when Chelsea started winning domestic cups regularly, or another point?

When Chelsea got the cash and finished second.

Chelsea, in the 6 years pre-Abramovich:
FA Cup 1997, 2000. Runners up 2002.
League Cup 1998
European Cup Winners' Cup 1998

What were their league positions from 1998?

They were never considered top 4 until Roman came in and they finished second.

98/99 - 3rd
99/00 - 5th
00/01 - 6th
01/02 - 6th
02/03 - 4th
03/04 - 2nd (Abramovich)

Reads similar to Everton the last last few years until Abromavich came in.

[BlueinBosnia]

Chelsea, in the 6 years pre-Abramovich:
FA Cup 1997, 2000. Runners up 2002.
League Cup 1998
European Cup Winners' Cup 1998

What were their league positions from 1998?

They were never considered top 4 until Roman came in and they finished second.

98/99 - 3rd
99/00 - 5th
00/01 - 6th
01/02 - 6th
02/03 - 4th
03/04 - 2nd (Abramovich)

Reads similar to Everton the last last few years until Abromavich came in.

Indeed, but there's a considerable difference in their trophy cabinets. Chelsea were already considered by many to be one of the most succesful clubs in England in recent years prior to his takeover, having won 4 cups in 6 seasons. Not a bad haul, considering only Leicester (2 League Cups) had won more than 1 apart from the other 3 now comprising the Big 4.

[edge275]

Chelsea, in the 6 years pre-Abramovich:
FA Cup 1997, 2000. Runners up 2002.
League Cup 1998
European Cup Winners' Cup 1998

What were their league positions from 1998?

They were never considered top 4 until Roman came in and they finished second.

98/99 - 3rd
99/00 - 5th
00/01 - 6th
01/02 - 6th
02/03 - 4th
03/04 - 2nd (Abramovich)

Reads similar to Everton the last last few years until Abromavich came in.

Indeed, but there's a considerable difference in their trophy cabinets. Chelsea were already considered by many to be one of the most succesful clubs in England in recent years prior to his takeover, having won 4 cups in 6 seasons. Not a bad haul, considering only Leicester (2 League Cups) had won more than 1 apart from the other 3 now comprising the Big 4.

Fair point, but cups are a bit of a lotto. We all know that sometimes the best teams don't win.

[Vhero]

Fair point, but cups are a bit of a lotto. We all know that sometimes the best teams don't win.

Exactly and thats all we would get off the Rags a top 4 place is a lot harder to earn and this is what this thread is about here people.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

winning trophies everytime. The Chelsea approach would work well, a league cup a couple of FA Cups, the Europa Cup and then take on the Champions League. If I had my way only the bloody winners of the league would be allowed in the Champions League anyway.

Spot on.

Champion's league, you must be having a laugh.

And I expect us to improve slowly. First try and win SOMETHING, then build on to bigger things. But one step at a time. And winning anything would be giant step. MAking it into Champion's league would be "just" good season.

[IanWright]

I'd suppose any of the options would be a clear sign of intent/progress.

It's a good question- probably needs to be settled by a toss of a coin!

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I'd suppose any of the options would be a clear sign of intent/progress.

It's a good question- probably needs to be settled by a toss of a coin!

Ian Wright
Fave team: Arsenal
Fave player: Paul Merson

Care to explain????