Sven was at the game tonight

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Again I will state that you're being very unfair to Pearce whilst holding Sven in an extremely high regard.

It's extremely unfair to even talk about the two managers, well one manager and one with furry toy, in the same sentence.

First of all, you can't say it was only half Pearce's doing because Keegan was in charge to begin with. That is completely unfair on the man. When a manager takes over a team on a serious slide that look to have completely lost their way and guides to them to a kick away from European qualification he has to be given FULL credit.

Absolutely not. Keegan did the ground work. Pearce sparked them up for few games for sure, that's the kind of character he is but was completely found out when he really got his own way.

He then had to endure selling our best players and being handed fuck all of a budget to work with. He said it himself, he was there to balance the books and make sure we didn't get relegated, which he did successfully.

SWP was sold but Pearce DID also get to spend money. Result? Corradi, Samaras, Vassell etc.

Would Sven have been up for the fight? How many goals would we have scored under Sven with the same team? How much more attractive would the football have been with the same team?

Would Sven had joined us at that situation? Absolutely not? Why would he?



So whatever your feelings on Pearce, it is way out of order to call him a complete joke whilst hailing Sven.[/quote]

[razor400]

Lets face it Hughes, sven and pearce are/were in a totally different situations and arguing over who is better is a bit pointless really, all have got merits and all have got faults. Sven started strong and then declined, Pearce had fuck all to work with and Hughes started a bit shit and seems to be getting it right at the mo.

[Ted Hughes]

Does anyone actually know why all the ex managers were there????

It's a monday so they're all available for one. Horton (Hull) & Reid (Stoke) to watch West Ham in particular as a relegation rival, John Bond because he's been a City manager & a Westaaaam wide boy, Royle & Keegan working for ESPN & Sven because of a bit of unfinished business with that blonde who works for Cook. Was Pearce there? Who knows what he sees in a game but he writes it down whatever it is.

Or it could be that the Sheikhs misunderstood when he was told we need several different options for each position.

[ronk]

Pearce still brings out the ambivalence, doesn't he.

I think he had some talent as a coach and a manager but lacked experience at a tough time to be a manager. He was trying, if not to rebuild but to at least dismantle the millstones (pun intended) from the Keegan era in the squad. He had his moments, didn't do exceptionally well but didn't implode in the same way as others have in similar situations.

Other managers might have brought us down. Pearce possibly would have if he'd stayed in the job. He tied his colours to Barton and that worked out badly.

He had a policy of buying old Bosmans and trying to bring through youth team players, probably of necessity. But he didn't use his money well. Took a risk on Samaras that he couldn't really afford and compounded it with Corradi. For the most part he signed players for the championship rather than the prem.

The pressure weighed heavily on everything he did. But look again at the 2006/2007 table and the effects of the new money deal. Sheffield United, Charlton and Watford have struggled with relegation and haven't bounced back. Wigan, Fulham and West Ham are settled into the prem at the moment.

[Ted Hughes]

Pearce still brings out the ambivalence, doesn't he.

I think he had some talent as a coach and a manager but lacked experience at a tough time to be a manager. He was trying, if not to rebuild but to at least dismantle the millstones (pun intended) from the Keegan era in the squad. He had his moments, didn't do exceptionally well but didn't implode in the same way as others have in similar situations.

Other managers might have brought us down. Pearce possibly would have if he'd stayed in the job. He tied his colours to Barton and that worked out badly.

He had a policy of buying old Bosmans and trying to bring through youth team players, probably of necessity. But he didn't use his money well. Took a risk on Samaras that he couldn't really afford and compounded it with Corradi. For the most part he signed players for the championship rather than the prem.

The pressure weighed heavily on everything he did. But look again at the 2006/2007 table and the effects of the new money deal. Sheffield U***d, Charlton and Watford have struggled with relegation and haven't bounced back. Wigan, Fulham and West Ham are settled into the prem at the moment.

I think his true talent is as a defensive coach & not a manager. He forced Wardle to give him the full job through threat of resignation whereas he should've accepted going back to being a No2 for a better manager & continuing to learn; which he's doing with Capello now. Once the Keegan era attacking flair wore off we saw the true Pearce. I don't think he has any idea about attacking football , so he'll fail unless he's at relegation clubs where he can follow the Tony Pulis route of defend, elbow & lumpit.

[Original Dub]

Again I will state that you're being very unfair to Pearce whilst holding Sven in an extremely high regard.

It's extremely unfair to even talk about the two managers, well one manager and one with furry toy, in the same sentence.

First of all, you can't say it was only half Pearce's doing because Keegan was in charge to begin with. That is completely unfair on the man. When a manager takes over a team on a serious slide that look to have completely lost their way and guides to them to a kick away from European qualification he has to be given FULL credit.

Absolutely not. Keegan did the ground work. Pearce sparked them up for few games for sure, that's the kind of character he is but was completely found out when he really got his own way.

He then had to endure selling our best players and being handed fuck all of a budget to work with. He said it himself, he was there to balance the books and make sure we didn't get relegated, which he did successfully.

SWP was sold but Pearce DID also get to spend money. Result? Corradi, Samaras, Vassell etc.

Would Sven have been up for the fight? How many goals would we have scored under Sven with the same team? How much more attractive would the football have been with the same team?

Would Sven had joined us at that situation? Absolutely not? Why would he?



So whatever your feelings on Pearce, it is way out of order to call him a complete joke whilst hailing Sven.

[/quote]


That one manager you refer to could NOT finish higher than pearce did. That's a FACT that you seemed to ignore.


Furry toy or not, Pearce would never have let us be humilitated beyond beilief by a horrible premiership side like Boro EIGHT FUCKING ONE!! Can you grasp that? He had so little fight and passion towards his job, no matter how close it was to being at an end, that he brought this club into shame that day.

Pearce had a LOT less money to spend than Sven. A lot less. But while you touched on the very valid point that he spent some of it poorly - Samaras and Corradi - their combined total still cost less than Bianchi... he also signed Mpenza on a free, as he did Andy Cole and Vassell for fuck all - all of whom scored vital goals to keep us in the premier league. Vital, important goals.

He was in his first managerial job ever and he turned the team INTO European hopefuls. Then SWP was sold, who was our most imnportant attacking player by a country mile (as important as Torres is to Liverpool, Rooney to United). In the following seasons, look who also left/was sold. We were a club in crisis and serious debt and he held the reigns during that time. I am eternally greatful for what he did for this club.

Now lets take Sven, who was handed over £50m overall. He got off to a cracking start. And that was fucking that. The players he left behind and the 'stamp' he put on the club did not take us any further as a club than Pearce did as we look back now. Yet Pearce's job was to keep us in the premier league. Sven's was to turn us into a top six side.

Pearce succeeded.
Sven failed.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Ridiculous stuff. "Pearce succeeded". JEEZES.

Sven also never managed to get us as low as Pearce. FACT. And he never managed to get us to score only 10 home goals in a season. Fact.

But enough of this argument. If you think Pearce was success then you are officially bonkers. And if you think Sven failed then you are also saying Hughes has been HUGE failure. At least Sven improved our position in league dramatically.

[Original Dub]

Ridiculous stuff. "Pearce succeeded". JEEZES.

Sven also never managed to get us as low as Pearce. FACT. And he never managed to get us to score only 10 home goals in a season. Fact.

But enough of this argument. If you think Pearce was success then you are officially bonkers. And if you think Sven failed then you are also saying Hughes has been HUGE failure. At least Sven improved our position in league dramatically.

Better put the caps on for you I reckon...

PEARCE'S JOB WAS TO KEEP US IN THE PREMIERSHIP AND BALANCE THE BOOKS TO THE BEST OF HIS ABILITY. SUCCESS!

SVEN'S JOB WAS TO PUT US IN THE TOP SIX. FAIL

There is no way a manager taking over from Pearce could be handed £50m and either get us relegated or damn close to it. Thats a fucking stupid statement.

You also talk again about the goals scored. Again I'll point to the money Sven had to spend on fire power. Why do you keep ignoring the fact that he had so much more to help him do his job? He didn't even have to sell ONE PLAYER FFS, let alone his most important one!!

Pearce could probably have finished 9th if you had given him the players Sven had. And even though his football was poxy to watch, so was Sven's with more flair players.

I've had enough of this argument as well, so we'll leave it at that if you like.

But if anyone was the fucking complete joke in my mind it was that clown who brought us to our most humiliating premier league defeat in history, not the one who kept us up and helped us survive as a premier league club.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Which deluded fool said that Sven's job was to get us in top 6?????? I for one never expected that.

I can't for the life of me understand why people keep going on about eight-one game???? Completely meaningless game with manager in charge who knew he had got unfair boot. Why don't you go on about first win at Swamp since god (and maybe John68) knows when. What's with the negative attitude?

[ronk]

Ridiculous stuff. "Pearce succeeded". JEEZES.

Sven also never managed to get us as low as Pearce. FACT. And he never managed to get us to score only 10 home goals in a season. Fact.

But enough of this argument. If you think Pearce was success then you are officially bonkers. And if you think Sven failed then you are also saying Hughes has been HUGE failure. At least Sven improved our position in league dramatically.

Better put the caps on for you I reckon...

PEARCE'S JOB WAS TO KEEP US IN THE PREMIERSHIP AND BALANCE THE BOOKS TO THE BEST OF HIS ABILITY. SUCCESS!

SVEN'S JOB WAS TO PUT US IN THE TOP SIX. FAIL

There is no way a manager taking over from Pearce could be handed £50m and either get us relegated or damn close to it. Thats a fucking stupid statement.

You also talk again about the goals scored. Again I'll point to the money Sven had to spend on fire power. Why do you keep ignoring the fact that he had so much more to help him do his job? He didn't even have to sell ONE PLAYER FFS, let alone his most important one!!

Pearce could probably have finished 9th if you had given him the players Sven had. And even though his football was poxy to watch, so was Sven's with more flair players.

I've had enough of this argument as well, so we'll leave it at that if you like.

But if anyone was the fucking complete joke in my mind it was that clown who brought us to our most humiliating premier league defeat in history, not the one who kept us up and helped us survive as a premier league club.

While I agree with you to some extent, it's possible to define anyone's job so minimal achievement is acceptable. If the bar was set lower for Pearce, it doesn't mean he was a better manager because he made that target (just).

We lost 2 of our 3 most important players before Sven took over. Barton, our top scorer; Distin, essential defender; we kept Richards, young and inexperienced -- but talented (and injured from March). We also released Sinclair, an important player, when fit.

Garrido was a replacement for Jordan.

I believe that Hughes is doing a better job than Pearce would have under the present ownership, but it's likely that we would have seen a different manager in many ways too. For all the slagging he got, he still turned down a contract extension and pay rise because he didn't want to outstay his welcome. It cost him a fair few quid, but I think he'd do it again.

That was his strength and his weakness. Strong character but sometimes not really thinking things through and just doing something because it felt right. That's why he's a better assistant, he's just too crazy to be put in charge of everything. There has to be someone who can stop him going psycho.

[Colin the King]

Ridiculous stuff. "Pearce succeeded". JEEZES.

Sven also never managed to get us as low as Pearce. FACT. And he never managed to get us to score only 10 home goals in a season. Fact.

But enough of this argument. If you think Pearce was success then you are officially bonkers. And if you think Sven failed then you are also saying Hughes has been HUGE failure. At least Sven improved our position in league dramatically.

Better put the caps on for you I reckon...

PEARCE'S JOB WAS TO KEEP US IN THE PREMIERSHIP AND BALANCE THE BOOKS TO THE BEST OF HIS ABILITY. SUCCESS!

SVEN'S JOB WAS TO PUT US IN THE TOP SIX. FAIL

There is no way a manager taking over from Pearce could be handed £50m and either get us relegated or damn close to it. Thats a fucking stupid statement.

You also talk again about the goals scored. Again I'll point to the money Sven had to spend on fire power. Why do you keep ignoring the fact that he had so much more to help him do his job? He didn't even have to sell ONE PLAYER FFS, let alone his most important one!!

Pearce could probably have finished 9th if you had given him the players Sven had. And even though his football was poxy to watch, so was Sven's with more flair players.

I've had enough of this argument as well, so we'll leave it at that if you like.

But if anyone was the fucking complete joke in my mind it was that clown who brought us to our most humiliating premier league defeat in history, not the one who kept us up and helped us survive as a premier league club.

Actually mate, Sven's job was to finish in the top ten- SUCCESS! Remember Thaksin set out a three year plan? Top ten in the first season, top six the year after and Champions League/title push in the third. The circumstances were strange and ultimately Thaksin was making promises he couldn't keep but disregard the intricate details- he was tasked with finishing in the top ten and did this. From a more sentimental point of view he got us the first derby double I've ever seen and we even managed to get into Europe through his infamous smooth talking and our positive play.

I'm with you on Pearce insofar as I think he did exceptionally well with the resources at his disposal- looking back it was a minor miracle to keep us in the league and despite some poor signings, others were crucial (Mpenza and those three goals in March/April kept us afloat) so I appreciate his efforts despite recognising he's not a great manager.

But to argue that one did a great job while the other failed is wrong. They both had different expectations to fulfill and did. Neither are at the club anymore but I'll always give them a round of applause because as I see it they're both likable guys who did pretty good work for this club.

[Original Dub]

Ridiculous stuff. "Pearce succeeded". JEEZES.

Sven also never managed to get us as low as Pearce. FACT. And he never managed to get us to score only 10 home goals in a season. Fact.

But enough of this argument. If you think Pearce was success then you are officially bonkers. And if you think Sven failed then you are also saying Hughes has been HUGE failure. At least Sven improved our position in league dramatically.

Better put the caps on for you I reckon...

PEARCE'S JOB WAS TO KEEP US IN THE PREMIERSHIP AND BALANCE THE BOOKS TO THE BEST OF HIS ABILITY. SUCCESS!

SVEN'S JOB WAS TO PUT US IN THE TOP SIX. FAIL

There is no way a manager taking over from Pearce could be handed £50m and either get us relegated or damn close to it. Thats a fucking stupid statement.

You also talk again about the goals scored. Again I'll point to the money Sven had to spend on fire power. Why do you keep ignoring the fact that he had so much more to help him do his job? He didn't even have to sell ONE PLAYER FFS, let alone his most important one!!

Pearce could probably have finished 9th if you had given him the players Sven had. And even though his football was poxy to watch, so was Sven's with more flair players.

I've had enough of this argument as well, so we'll leave it at that if you like.

But if anyone was the fucking complete joke in my mind it was that clown who brought us to our most humiliating premier league defeat in history, not the one who kept us up and helped us survive as a premier league club.

While I agree with you to some extent, it's possible to define anyone's job so minimal achievement is acceptable. If the bar was set lower for Pearce, it doesn't mean he was a better manager because he made that target (just).

We lost 2 of our 3 most important players before Sven took over. Barton, our top scorer; Distin, essential defender; we kept Richards, young and inexperienced -- but talented (and injured from March). We also released Sinclair, an important player, when fit.

Garrido was a replacement for Jordan.

I believe that Hughes is doing a better job than Pearce would have under the present ownership, but it's likely that we would have seen a different manager in many ways too. For all the slagging he got, he still turned down a contract extension and pay rise because he didn't want to outstay his welcome. It cost him a fair few quid, but I think he'd do it again.

That was his strength and his weakness. Strong character but sometimes not really thinking things through and just doing something because it felt right. That's why he's a better assistant, he's just too crazy to be put in charge of everything. There has to be someone who can stop him going psycho.

Well mate, I agree with a lot of that and I'm honestly not trying to compare their managerial qualities half as much as I'm trying to compare their importance to the club.

I don't feel that Sven was as important in where we are today as Pearce was.

And I felt it only right to react to him being called a "complete fucking joke" in the same breath that Sven is being praised to high heaven. Although, I have seen one of our better players this season being called a cunt a told to fuck off back to where he came from, so I shouldn't be taking it to heart I suppose....

I know and appreciate the extremely tough job Pearce had and while I hated the football, I'm eternally greatful to what he gave to our recent history when we really needed it.... we NEEDED the job Pearce did. Wedidn't NEED the job Sven did.

[ronk]

Well mate, I agree with a lot of that and I'm honestly not trying to compare their managerial qualities half as much as I'm trying to compare their importance to the club.

I don't feel that Sven was as important in where we are today as Pearce was.

And I felt it only right to react to him being called a "complete fucking joke" in the same breath that Sven is being praised to high heaven. Although, I have seen one of our better players this season being called a cunt a told to fuck off back to where he came from, so I shouldn't be taking it to heart I suppose....

I know and appreciate the extremely tough job Pearce had and while I hated the football, I'm eternally greatful to what he gave to our recent history when we really needed it.... we NEEDED the job Pearce did. Wedidn't NEED the job Sven did.

We needed that too. We needed to move on from Joey Barton and Ben Thatcher, Pearce might have been able but it was easier with a new, foreign manager. He had the foreign contacts so we were buying guys like Corluka and Petrov instead of Samaras and Corradi. We started moving on from being a club focused on survival and instead were looking upwards.

We sold Barton and the closest we came to a replacement was Elano. You can't really ignore that sort of change to a club. It was about 6 league games (IIRC) before we passed Pearce's home total of goals under Sven. We became a team that were exciting to watch, especially at home where it had been tough going. Under Sven we tried to get Ronaldinho.

Hughes inherited a team in far better shape than Sven and he got a team increasing in confidence, in the UEFA Cup and having thrown off the shackles of a really poor disciplinary image.

We were certainly far better candidates for the takeover as a club that was on the way up and increasing its worldwide profile.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

>>>We also released Sinclair, an important player, when fit.

No way man. Sinclair was well past his sell by date and was as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike by the end. He didn't contribute much in all his time with us, come to think of it.

[anthonytomo]

The swedish sex machine was at the main entrance when I got there,

took this pic while my mate was saying to him "nice colour tie Sven"



I then asked him if he was coming back, to which he said "welllll, no, no, no"

Then lifted him coat collar like this....



and said "yes, but don't tell anyone just yet"

God's honest truth, you heard it here first.

[shawzy]

Some of the posts on here are ridiculous.
Makin a big deal out of Sven takin us 9th place to Hughe's 10th....It one place apart..Have we won anything?
Plus to brag about a manger gettin us into uefa cup on the fair play award is bloody daft.
I see it as it is and last season and this one were playing good attractive football on the deck...Better than most of us has ever seen as supporters and we will get our just rewards from it.

[shawzy]

.

[Slim]

Some of the posts on here are ridiculous.
Makin a big deal out of Sven takin us 9th place to Hughe's 10th....It one place apart..Have we won anything?
Plus to brag about a manger gettin us into uefa cup on the fair play award is bloody daft.
I see it as it is and last season and this one were playing good attractive football on the deck...Better than most of us has ever seen as supporters and we will get our just rewards from it.

I will tell you the most ridiculous posts on here are the ones that think that Hughes is miles better than Sven when, if we are comparing the first year in charge that they both had, Sven took a side from 15th and bound for the championship and got them to 9th. Hughes couldn't even maintain that. 8 months without an away win, why Sven should be shot for that...oh wait, wasn't him. First round exits from both domestic cups? Hughes again, fucking Brighton and at home to Forest? FFS, how did he keep his job after that? Oh right, by the time we capitulated to Forest 3-0 at home, Hughes had done the sterling job of dragging us to the heady heights of 13th, thank god cause two weeks earlier we were hovering just above relegation.

You are right, we should brag about a manager getting us into the uefa via the fairplay. Neither then should we then even contemplate mentioning the only saving grace of Hughes 1st season which was the uefa cup campaign.

You want people mentioning nothing and hammering it as a point? EIGHT FUCKING ONE, kneejerk reaction to that result hasn't passed over a year later and you wonder why people mention the 9th vs 10th...let me wrap you a clue to go.

[Ted Hughes]

Some of the posts on here are ridiculous.
Makin a big deal out of Sven takin us 9th place to Hughe's 10th....It one place apart..Have we won anything?
Plus to brag about a manger gettin us into uefa cup on the fair play award is bloody daft.
I see it as it is and last season and this one were playing good attractive football on the deck...Better than most of us has ever seen as supporters and we will get our just rewards from it.

I will tell you the most ridiculous posts on here are the ones that think that Hughes is miles better than Sven when, if we are comparing the first year in charge that they both had, Sven took a side from 15th and bound for the championship and got them to 9th. Hughes couldn't even maintain that. 8 months without an away win, why Sven should be shot for that...oh wait, wasn't him. First round exits from both domestic cups? Hughes again, fucking Brighton and at home to Forest? FFS, how did he keep his job after that? Oh right, by the time we capitulated to Forest 3-0 at home, Hughes had done the sterling job of dragging us to the heady heights of 13th, thank god cause two weeks earlier we were hovering just above relegation.

You are right, we should brag about a manager getting us into the uefa via the fairplay. Neither then should we then even contemplate mentioning the only saving grace of Hughes 1st season which was the uefa cup campaign.

You want people mentioning nothing and hammering it as a point? EIGHT FUCKING ONE, kneejerk reaction to that result hasn't passed over a year later and you wonder why people mention the 9th vs 10th...let me wrap you a clue to go.

Ferguson wins nowt one year wins the treble then doesn't win the treble but still wins the league. That must mean Ferguson's better than Ferguson but not as good as Ferguson.

[Slim]

Yes, I am sure he critique's the performances from one season to the next and has in his mind established what is a satisfactory level of performance and what isn't. For him to finish 1st, go on a spending spree, and then finish 2nd would be considered a failure. If, for instance this season, he lost two of his better players in Tevez and Ronaldo and failed to adequately replace them (Obertan and Valencia) then finishing 2nd might not be considered as much as abject failure as if he had bought those players instead of sold them.