some of Hughes tactics and substitutions baffling?

[Ted Hughes]

I can't imagine what it's going to be like if we actually have a genuinely bad performance.

This business about manager's constant wonderful substitutions is utter tripe. If we had Solskjaer & Giggs on the bench last night they'd both have come on. It doesn't take a fucking genius to do that. Benitez however would've probably brought on a fullback. He's won the chump's league though. Wengers substitutions are often bizzarre & Mourinho once changed 3 players at half time & OBVIOUSLY someone then got injured. GENIUS.

At some point during the season, Hughes will bring on RSC & he'll score. That won't mean he's a genius. If he brings on Vincent, puts Lescott Centre forward & HE scores THEN it would be clever. Very rarely do any of the top managers do anything like that & succeed though. Mostly they have world class players & swap them, which is exactly what Hughes will do. Sometimes it will work.

[CITYTILLIDIE11]

I can't imagine what it's going to be like if we actually have a genuinely bad performance.

This business about manager's constant wonderful substitutions is utter tripe. If we had Solskjaer & Giggs on the bench last night they'd both have come on. It doesn't take a fucking genius to do that. Benitez however would've probably brought on a fullback. He's won the chump's league though. Wengers substitutions are often bizzarre & Mourinho once changed 3 players at half time & OBVIOUSLY someone then got injured. GENIUS.

At some point during the season, Hughes will bring on RSC & he'll score. That won't mean he's a genius. If he brings on Vincent, puts Lescott Centre forward & HE scores THEN it would be clever. Very rarely do any of the top managers do anything like that & succeed though. Mostly they have world class players & swap them, which is exactly what Hughes will do. Sometimes it will work.

Why was that not a bad performance ?

My perception and your perception of a bad performance differ greatly then, for me we played our worst match of the season, we were over run in midfield for the first 45 minutes leaving De Jong woefully exposed, whilst the manager sat by and did nothing we were lucky to go in only 1-0 down, our defending from set pieces is virtually none existent hence the once hapless Dunne scoring one and nearly scoring another before Hughes did anything about it, I watched City players running in to each other on more than one occasion, admittedly it got better after the break bringing on SI for the injured De Jong,we started to get back in to it and then brought on the clearly unfit RSC and with it when any chance of a victory.

[john68]

Last season Hughes made a number of substitutions that baffled me at the time. Later when questioned about them, his explanations seemed plausible and I then understood what he was trying to do.

What I do know is that, during a game, Hughes has access to very complex set of individual stats on each player and is fully aware of every aspect of their individual performance and the way it impacts on tactics as a whole.

Maybe, the fact that Hughes has this information shows him things that generally would remain unseen. As long as we keep on schedule, and I think we are slightly ahead at the moment, I will be happy to remain baffled and celebrate the gains we are making content in the knowledge that he probably knows what is going on, more than I do.

Exactly working from stats, 99% of the time there will be no problem and it will be a good method.

However there will be matches where he needs to go off what his eyes are seeing, I see us having problems against opposition that is more evenly matched on the pitch, I hope Hughes proves me wrong but I see him struggling against the top managers as he did last season, it was no coincidence that other than a solitary win against Arsenal we struggled against the top 4.


Fortune favours the brave and last nights match was there for the taking, Villa are not a great side

I EXPECT the rags, Arsenal, L'Pool and Chelsea to cause us problems...IT'S WHAT THEY DO. If they didn't, they wouldn't be the bloody top four. I EXPECT that Hughes will struggle to get results and I EXPECT the players to struggle to win games against them. IT'S THE NATURE OF TOP COMPETITION.
It is ridiculous to consider that any manager or team doesn't struggle against them, even other top four sides.

Forget last season, this season is a whole new set up and our record stands up. A huge win v Arsenal and an extra...extra time defeat at the swamp. Villa are no mugs they were considered a form side...5 wins from the last 5 games....on their own ground...
They are an extremely good side and anyone who thinks sides like this will roll over are being silly. Villa posed us some major problems last night, I EXPECTED THEM TO.

[Ted Hughes]

I can't imagine what it's going to be like if we actually have a genuinely bad performance.

This business about manager's constant wonderful substitutions is utter tripe. If we had Solskjaer & Giggs on the bench last night they'd both have come on. It doesn't take a fucking genius to do that. Benitez however would've probably brought on a fullback. He's won the chump's league though. Wengers substitutions are often bizzarre & Mourinho once changed 3 players at half time & OBVIOUSLY someone then got injured. GENIUS.

At some point during the season, Hughes will bring on RSC & he'll score. That won't mean he's a genius. If he brings on Vincent, puts Lescott Centre forward & HE scores THEN it would be clever. Very rarely do any of the top managers do anything like that & succeed though. Mostly they have world class players & swap them, which is exactly what Hughes will do. Sometimes it will work.

Why was that not a bad performance ?

My perception and your perception of a bad performance differ greatly then, for me we played our worst match of the season, we were over run in midfield for the first 45 minutes leaving De Jong woefully exposed, whilst the manager sat by and did nothing we were lucky to go in only 1-0 down, our defending from set pieces is virtually none existent hence the once hapless Dunne scoring one and nearly scoring another before Hughes did anything about it, I watched City players running in to each other on more than one occasion, admittedly it got better after the break bringing on SI for the injured De Jong,we started to get back in to it and then brought on the clearly unfit RSC and with it when any chance of a victory.

We WEREN'T overrun in midfield. We had 60% of the ball. That's probably more than we've ever had v anybody in the PL. If you think we were then we have no point of discussion.

[CITYTILLIDIE11]

I can't imagine what it's going to be like if we actually have a genuinely bad performance.

This business about manager's constant wonderful substitutions is utter tripe. If we had Solskjaer & Giggs on the bench last night they'd both have come on. It doesn't take a fucking genius to do that. Benitez however would've probably brought on a fullback. He's won the chump's league though. Wengers substitutions are often bizzarre & Mourinho once changed 3 players at half time & OBVIOUSLY someone then got injured. GENIUS.

At some point during the season, Hughes will bring on RSC & he'll score. That won't mean he's a genius. If he brings on Vincent, puts Lescott Centre forward & HE scores THEN it would be clever. Very rarely do any of the top managers do anything like that & succeed though. Mostly they have world class players & swap them, which is exactly what Hughes will do. Sometimes it will work.

Why was that not a bad performance ?

My perception and your perception of a bad performance differ greatly then, for me we played our worst match of the season, we were over run in midfield for the first 45 minutes leaving De Jong woefully exposed, whilst the manager sat by and did nothing we were lucky to go in only 1-0 down, our defending from set pieces is virtually none existent hence the once hapless Dunne scoring one and nearly scoring another before Hughes did anything about it, I watched City players running in to each other on more than one occasion, admittedly it got better after the break bringing on SI for the injured De Jong,we started to get back in to it and then brought on the clearly unfit RSC and with it when any chance of a victory.

We WEREN'T overrun in midfield. We had 60% of the ball. That's probably more than we've ever had v anybody in the PL. If you think we were then we have no point of discussion.

I thought in the first half we were losing the battle in midfield.

But if you say we had 60% possession then that means I must be wrong.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I can't imagine what it's going to be like if we actually have a genuinely bad performance.

This business about manager's constant wonderful substitutions is utter tripe. If we had Solskjaer & Giggs on the bench last night they'd both have come on. It doesn't take a fucking genius to do that. Benitez however would've probably brought on a fullback. He's won the chump's league though. Wengers substitutions are often bizzarre & Mourinho once changed 3 players at half time & OBVIOUSLY someone then got injured. GENIUS.

At some point during the season, Hughes will bring on RSC & he'll score. That won't mean he's a genius. If he brings on Vincent, puts Lescott Centre forward & HE scores THEN it would be clever. Very rarely do any of the top managers do anything like that & succeed though. Mostly they have world class players & swap them, which is exactly what Hughes will do. Sometimes it will work.

Why was that not a bad performance ?

My perception and your perception of a bad performance differ greatly then, for me we played our worst match of the season, we were over run in midfield for the first 45 minutes leaving De Jong woefully exposed, whilst the manager sat by and did nothing we were lucky to go in only 1-0 down, our defending from set pieces is virtually none existent hence the once hapless Dunne scoring one and nearly scoring another before Hughes did anything about it, I watched City players running in to each other on more than one occasion, admittedly it got better after the break bringing on SI for the injured De Jong,we started to get back in to it and then brought on the clearly unfit RSC and with it when any chance of a victory.

We WEREN'T overrun in midfield. We had 60% of the ball. That's probably more than we've ever had v anybody in the PL. If you think we were then we have no point of discussion.

I thought in the first half we were losing the battle in midfield.

But if you say we had 60% possession then that means I must be wrong.

60% of the possession is what was said near the end of the first half. No way we were overrun in midfiled and pretty well all Villa's threat was from corners. Having said that ,although it was not a very good peformance it certainly wasn't a bad one. I thought our weakest players were Ade/Tevez and SWP and then RSC when he came on .I really think if they had all been on the top of their game we would have won.
As for the substitutions yes Ireland came on very early in the 2nd half for an injury but it wouldnt have been much later anyway. The big question was the next sub. 2 would have been made but we scored before it could happen. Immediately the ball went in it was decided to hold one sub back which is 100% logical to cover the team in case there is a late injury ( which there was although it didn't need a sub) RSC was the right change for me too but then he got the eye poke and was very ineffective. I don't think he it was because he is " so unfit" as some generous folk here said.Yes he needs matches but that's all.

What would have heppened if Petrov had replaced SWP? Who knows.

[Original Dub]

Do others like me find some of Hughes tactics and substitutions baffling?

I am not basing this on one match, I am basing with observations I made last season and this season, last season there were many matches where I felt Hughes dawdled in making substitutions, and when he did belatedly make them I was just confused, throwing a 2-0 lead against Liverpool because we were unable to shut up shop is one that springs to mind, playing right sided players on the left etc were others.

We have had a great season so far, yet I feel we lost to the Scum because Hughes changed things at half time and took far to long to revert back to the same system, I remember De Jong pleading with him to sure up the midfield because we were being over run, he took far to long to change things, tonight for me it was evident very early on that midfield was none existent, substitutions should have been made after maybe just half an hour, bringing on SI was a positive move, then any benefit from it effectively evaporated by bringing on the clearly unfit RSC ,I feel we could and should have beaten these if the right choices were made by Hughes.

bad choices might cost us in the bigger games where Hughes needs to pit his whit’s against the top 4.

I totally agree with this and this is the only reason I am still in the Hughes Out Brigade, unfortunately as good as he is in the purchasing side of managment I honestly believe he does not have enough in his bag of tricks to contend for trophies, Arse, Scum and Scousers have [url]all proven they have managers who can change a game for the better with a single substitution, we dont[/url].

Brilliant!

His subsitutions have changed the course of the game everytime we needed it this season - Arsenal, Fulham, United, Villa... All games we looked like losing until the point of substitution.

Sorry mate, but your statement makes absolutely no sense. Especially when you look at Scouse and united - what fantastic substitutions changed the games they were losing? Because from what I can see, you're comparing a side that lost to Villa, Spurs and Chelsea... along with a side that lost to Burnley, cheated a win against us and drew at home to fucking sunderland... to a side that has outperformed these managers in both tactics and substitutions against similar/ even better opposition.

Care to explain further?

[Ted Hughes]

I can't imagine what it's going to be like if we actually have a genuinely bad performance.

This business about manager's constant wonderful substitutions is utter tripe. If we had Solskjaer & Giggs on the bench last night they'd both have come on. It doesn't take a fucking genius to do that. Benitez however would've probably brought on a fullback. He's won the chump's league though. Wengers substitutions are often bizzarre & Mourinho once changed 3 players at half time & OBVIOUSLY someone then got injured. GENIUS.

At some point during the season, Hughes will bring on RSC & he'll score. That won't mean he's a genius. If he brings on Vincent, puts Lescott Centre forward & HE scores THEN it would be clever. Very rarely do any of the top managers do anything like that & succeed though. Mostly they have world class players & swap them, which is exactly what Hughes will do. Sometimes it will work.

Why was that not a bad performance ?

My perception and your perception of a bad performance differ greatly then, for me we played our worst match of the season, we were over run in midfield for the first 45 minutes leaving De Jong woefully exposed, whilst the manager sat by and did nothing we were lucky to go in only 1-0 down, our defending from set pieces is virtually none existent hence the once hapless Dunne scoring one and nearly scoring another before Hughes did anything about it, I watched City players running in to each other on more than one occasion, admittedly it got better after the break bringing on SI for the injured De Jong,we started to get back in to it and then brought on the clearly unfit RSC and with it when any chance of a victory.

We WEREN'T overrun in midfield. We had 60% of the ball. That's probably more than we've ever had v anybody in the PL. If you think we were then we have no point of discussion.

I thought in the first half we were losing the battle in midfield.

But if you say we had 60% possession then that means I must be wrong.

60% of the possession is what was said near the end of the first half. No way we were overrun in midfiled and pretty well all Villa's threat was from corners. Having said that ,although it was not a very good peformance it certainly wasn't a bad one. I thought our weakest players were Ade/Tevez and SWP and then RSC when he came on .I really think if they had all been on the top of their game we would have won.
As for the substitutions yes Ireland came on very early in the 2nd half for an injury but it wouldnt have been much later anyway. The big question was the next sub. 2 would have been made but we scored before it could happen. Immediately the ball went in it was decided to hold one sub back which is 100% logical to cover the team in case there is a late injury ( which there was although it didn't need a sub) RSC was the right change for me too but then he got the eye poke and was very ineffective. I don't think he it was because he is " so unfit" as some generous folk here said.Yes he needs matches but that's all.

What would have heppened if Petrov had replaced SWP? Who knows.

That's the point. It could've made no difference, or won us or lost us the game. I didn't think RSC looked unfit either, in fact he moved quite quickly at times, just didn't play well pure & simple. He'll get much better.

Defending set pieces & crosses could end up being what makes or breaks our season. Yesterday & OT wasn't good enough but it may require a different line up to solve it completely. We have too many players who aren't very good at defending in the air. If we want to continue most games with this group of attacking players perhaps we'll just have to improve the best we can , hope we get away with it & score plenty at the other end.

[Blue2]

[/quote]That's the point. It could've made no difference, or won us or lost us the game. I didn't think RSC looked unfit either, in fact he moved quite quickly at times, just didn't play well pure & simple. He'll get much better.

Defending set pieces & crosses could end up being what makes or breaks our season. Yesterday & OT wasn't good enough but it may require a different line up to solve it completely. We have too many players who aren't very good at defending in the air. If we want to continue most games with this group of attacking players perhaps we'll just have to improve the best we can , hope we get away with it & score plenty at the other end.[/quote]


Really? last night he made Corradi look fast, if he is match fit then we might as well get rid now, because he simply isn't going to be of any use to us whatsoever.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

That's the point. It could've made no difference, or won us or lost us the game. I didn't think RSC looked unfit either, in fact he moved quite quickly at times, just didn't play well pure & simple. He'll get much better.

Defending set pieces & crosses could end up being what makes or breaks our season. Yesterday & OT wasn't good enough but it may require a different line up to solve it completely. We have too many players who aren't very good at defending in the air. If we want to continue most games with this group of attacking players perhaps we'll just have to improve the best we can , hope we get away with it & score plenty at the other end.

Really? last night he made Corradi look fast, if he is match fit then we might as well get rid now, because he simply isn't going to be of any use to us whatsoever.[/quote]
I am guessing you would have been in the " don't sign Bellamy at all costs " category. RSC will be fine.
Blue2 has it about right.

[Original Dub]

That's the point. It could've made no difference, or won us or lost us the game. I didn't think RSC looked unfit either, in fact he moved quite quickly at times, just didn't play well pure & simple. He'll get much better.

Defending set pieces & crosses could end up being what makes or breaks our season. Yesterday & OT wasn't good enough but it may require a different line up to solve it completely. We have too many players who aren't very good at defending in the air. If we want to continue most games with this group of attacking players perhaps we'll just have to improve the best we can , hope we get away with it & score plenty at the other end.[/quote]


Really? last night he made Corradi look fast, if he is match fit then we might as well get rid now, because he simply isn't going to be of any use to us whatsoever.[/quote]

Wow, that's about as knee jerk as possible. You really can come across as miserable sometimes mate ;)

Its on the official site that his vision was impaired and he was effectively playing with one eye after Bellamy poked him in the eye when he came on.

So that should equate to a nice answer to both Ted's and your posts. He may well be match fit but did have a poor game...

But he couldn't see properly.

As for his ability... I think its been assessed akin to Bellamy's - concerns are not over how good he is but how injury free he can stay.

so why in hell are so so disappointed with him given all of the above information?

[carl_feedthegoat]

That's the point. It could've made no difference, or won us or lost us the game. I didn't think RSC looked unfit either, in fact he moved quite quickly at times, just didn't play well pure & simple. He'll get much better.

Defending set pieces & crosses could end up being what makes or breaks our season. Yesterday & OT wasn't good enough but it may require a different line up to solve it completely. We have too many players who aren't very good at defending in the air. If we want to continue most games with this group of attacking players perhaps we'll just have to improve the best we can , hope we get away with it & score plenty at the other end.

Really? last night he made Corradi look fast, if he is match fit then we might as well get rid now, because he simply isn't going to be of any use to us whatsoever.[/quote]

Wow, that's about as knee jerk as possible. You really can come across as miserable sometimes mate ;)

Its on the official site that his vision was impaired and he was effectively playing with one eye after Bellamy poked him in the eye when he came on.

So that should equate to a nice answer to both Ted's and your posts. He may well be match fit but did have a poor game...

But he couldn't see properly.

As for his ability... I think its been assessed akin to Bellamy's - concerns are not over how good he is but how injury free he can stay.

so why in hell are so so disappointed with him given all of the above information?[/quote]

HE COULD OF USED HIS NOSE TO SNIFF FOR A GOAL......FFS !

[Blue2]

That's the point. It could've made no difference, or won us or lost us the game. I didn't think RSC looked unfit either, in fact he moved quite quickly at times, just didn't play well pure & simple. He'll get much better.

Defending set pieces & crosses could end up being what makes or breaks our season. Yesterday & OT wasn't good enough but it may require a different line up to solve it completely. We have too many players who aren't very good at defending in the air. If we want to continue most games with this group of attacking players perhaps we'll just have to improve the best we can , hope we get away with it & score plenty at the other end.

Really? last night he made Corradi look fast, if he is match fit then we might as well get rid now, because he simply isn't going to be of any use to us whatsoever.[/quote]

Wow, that's about as knee jerk as possible. You really can come across as miserable sometimes mate ;)

Its on the official site that his vision was impaired and he was effectively playing with one eye after Bellamy poked him in the eye when he came on.

So that should equate to a nice answer to both Ted's and your posts. He may well be match fit but did have a poor game...

But he couldn't see properly.

As for his ability... I think its been assessed akin to Bellamy's - concerns are not over how good he is but how injury free he can stay.

so why in hell are so so disappointed with him given all of the above information?[/quote]


Not particularly having a go at RSC ( although I do think he's waste of space). My main gripe re last night was that he clearly isn't anywhere near fit enough to be playing in the Prem and should be getting 90 mins in the reserves for 3-4 games until he gets anywhere near the first team. Badly managed in my view.