The mancityfans.net football forum

Posted: **Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:48 pm**

managers eh?

howard wilkinson did a good job at leeds but then did fuck all.

john beck, dave bassett and joe kinnear did superb jobs.

but i do like ian holloway. doing a great job again.

what makes a good manager? how long does it last? do they get sacked too soon?

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:25 am**

Depends if your fashionable.

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:36 am**

I don't get the title?

Reidy is at Stoke isn't he?

I do like Holloway though, he's a maniac

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:54 am**

ant london wrote:I don't get the title?

Reidy is at Stoke isn't he?

I do like Holloway though, he's a maniac

i've always had a sneaky suspicion that managing at the top level (ie prem, international) requires very different skills to managing at lower levels. much more ego management, motivation etc, a lot less coaching/tactics etc. i think the clive woodward experiment was interesting but doomed to failure because of the personalities involved.

i picked the likes of beck etc because surely the mark of a good manager is to get players playing better than they "should"?

(by the way, this is not a hughes thread - I'm talking about managers that might not get the plaudits coz they don't have the resources but fairly consistently get results).

look at leicester...many have tried and failed in the last decade or so - and now nigel pearson is getting it fairly right. look at gareth southgate - I don't think i've heard a single ex-pro etc say a bad word about him, yet, for me, he did an utterly terrible job at borer.

so, if you took someone like holloway, who barring one or 2 failures seems to have been an excellent manager - and stuck him in charge of, say, arsenal - how would it go?

and if you took wenger and put him in charge of darlington - are they certs for promotion?

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:09 am**

I think it a case of right man at the right place with the right players at the right time, the chances of getting all that together is near impossible and thats why only a few clubs/teams & managers are successful. Fergiescum was very very lucky to be given the time he got, that wouldn't happen nowadays, just look at fergiescum junior.

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:19 am**

Reid took over a reasonable team at City and spent what at the time was quite big dough on the whole defence and made us into a pretty dire team to watch.

At Sunderland, he had an absolute shedload of dough to spend. A massive amount in comparison to other similar sized clubs and in the end he spunked it all up the wall and landed them in a floundering position.

Since then, he's been an utter failure.

These chequebook managers like Reid, Taggart, Captain Dodgy Shoulder etc, wouldn't have a prayer at a club in the lower divisions. Not a prayer!

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:09 am**

Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
ant london wrote:I don't get the title?

Reidy is at Stoke isn't he?

I do like Holloway though, he's a maniac

i've always had a sneaky suspicion that managing at the top level (ie prem, international) requires very different skills to managing at lower levels. much more ego management, motivation etc, a lot less coaching/tactics etc. i think the clive woodward experiment was interesting but doomed to failure because of the personalities involved.

i picked the likes of beck etc because surely the mark of a good manager is to get players playing better than they "should"?

(by the way, this is not a hughes thread - I'm talking about managers that might not get the plaudits coz they don't have the resources but fairly consistently get results).

look at leicester...many have tried and failed in the last decade or so - and now nigel pearson is getting it fairly right. look at gareth southgate - I don't think i've heard a single ex-pro etc say a bad word about him, yet, for me, he did an utterly terrible job at borer.

so, if you took someone like holloway, who barring one or 2 failures seems to have been an excellent manager - and stuck him in charge of, say, arsenal - how would it go?

and if you took wenger and put him in charge of darlington - are they certs for promotion?

Good post, I wonder after listening to Ray Parlour, at a Sportsmans dinner how much luck Wenger had in his early days, he according to Ray Parlour, was armed with a big sweeping brush to get rid of the Back 4 at Arsenal in one big clear out,Pat Rice advised him to get central midfielders first and then judge Adams, Bould, etc, he brings in Petit and Vieira and the rest his history, now he struggles with the same problem and a lack of 3 million pound central mid super stars. Wenger and Fergie, have had decades to build rebuild make bad signings loose millions in transfers like Veron/Reyes/Tiabi, the club had trust and a plan, all the players at Arsenal knew Wenger was bomb proof so they had to perform or leave.Wenger and Fergis have created new clubs from every way you look both have started again with everything on the football side. Arsenal are 10yrs behind on the income but that is sorted now.

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:45 am**

Apart from the budgets involved, the main difference between the top and lower divions is the media spotlight on every minute action. Handle that and you've got a decent chance.

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:59 am**

Quite co-incidentally the Independent today has an article about those "top flight" managers who are perpetually "shortlisted" for vacant positions whilst never (or rarely) getting the job...

Souness
Venables
O'Leary
Graham
Hoddle
Keegan
Platt
Mancini
Curbishley
Sven

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:06 pm**

ant london wrote:Quite co-incidentally the Independent today has an article about those "top flight" managers who are perpetually "shortlisted" for vacant positions whilst never (or rarely) getting the job...

Souness-SHIT
Venables-PAST IT
O'Leary-DECENT WITH LOTS OF MONEY
Graham-PAST IT
Hoddle-NEVER HAD IT
Keegan-DECENT WITH SHIT LOADS OF CASH
Platt-SHIT
Mancini-WHY HE NEVER ROCKED UP AT CITY I WILL NEVER KNOW HE IS GENIUS AND WOULD HAVE HAD US TOP OF THE LEAGUE EASILY BY NOW. ;-)
Curbishley-SHOULD BE AT BOLTON OR HULL
Sven-ILL RESERVE JUDGEMENT,PEOPLE WILL CRY

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:11 pm**

I'd pretty much agree with all of that LAHAD......even on the one where we shall keep our own counsel ;-)

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:09 pm**

I dont like generalisations usually, but I tend to catagorise Football managers. You have your cerebral types like Wenger and Mark Hughes, then you have your 'street smart' ones like Mourinho and He Who Will Not Be Named (of the Bacon faced Taggart appearance), then there are the Icons (previous players who were seen as fan favourites either for one club or nationally or internationally) such as Shearer and Maradonna. You can pretty much stick just about any Manager I cant think of into those three types.

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:22 pm**

Dameerto wrote:I dont like generalisations usually, but I tend to catagorise Football managers. You have your cerebral types like Wenger and Mark Hughes, then you have your 'street smart' ones like Mourinho and He Who Will Not Be Named (of the Bacon faced Taggart appearance), then there are the Icons (previous players who were seen as fan favourites either for one club or nationally or internationally) such as Shearer and Maradonna. You can pretty much stick just about any Manager I cant think of into those three types.

ian holloway? john beck? dave bassett?

that's sort of my point mate - i'm offering that it takes a different skill-set.

so - how would holloway do in charge of arsenal, and how would wenger do in charge of darlington?

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:27 pm**

Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
Dameerto wrote:I dont like generalisations usually, but I tend to catagorise Football managers. You have your cerebral types like Wenger and Mark Hughes, then you have your 'street smart' ones like Mourinho and He Who Will Not Be Named (of the Bacon faced Taggart appearance), then there are the Icons (previous players who were seen as fan favourites either for one club or nationally or internationally) such as Shearer and Maradonna. You can pretty much stick just about any Manager I cant think of into those three types.

ian holloway? john beck? dave bassett?

that's sort of my point mate - i'm offering that it takes a different skill-set.

so - how would holloway do in charge of arsenal, and how would wenger do in charge of darlington?

Kinnear as you rightly said above is also another in that bracket

Brilliant with backs to the wall, no money, everyone hates us we don't care

If you put him in charge at Stamford Bridge/Anfield it would be an unmitigated disaster IMO but I agree he is a very good manager in the right (...or should I say wrong) set-up

Posted: **Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:56 pm**

ant london wrote:Kinnear as you rightly said above is also another in that bracket

Brilliant with backs to the wall, no money, everyone hates us we don't care

If you put him in charge at Stamford Bridge/Anfield it would be an unmitigated disaster IMO but I agree he is a very good manager in the right (...or should I say wrong) set-up

You could lump Joe Royle in there in my opinion. Did miracles at Oldham and rescued us from the mire by picking up cheap players who worked hard for him, also found a few diamonds here and there. When he hit them Prem with City and needed to but higher end players he failed.

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