What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby lythamblue » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:34 pm

Socrates wrote:
lythamblue wrote:
Socrates wrote:
lythamblue wrote:You seem to have missed the point ..... probably because you haven't considered beyond the next 10 games or so, never mind the next 10 years. If all you care about is winning the Carling Cup in February then you will probably ignore what I am going to say next .... but I will write it anyway.

Our owners have changed against their initial statements and principles all too easily. Therefore, you have to wonder whether they really do care about the Academy, social responsibilities, club history, fans etc, as they have also previously statemented.

As someone, who has been quite heavily involved in acquisitions, PR, getting people on side etc, I have seen many similar scenario's. Are we just being fed PR in order to keep us onside for as long as they need us to be?

How would you react if the Academy was conked on the head because 'it took to long ..... or didn't meet the pre set targets"?


Which poster was it that started a thread worrying that Mancini might not care about winning the Carling Cup, remind me?


What's that got to do with anything?

Off course I want us to win the Carling Cup ..... doesn't mean that's all I care about.

Pointless thread contribution.


Seemed like all you cared about in that thread Mark...


If you read the board you will see that I care about lots of things, including the Carling Cup still being treated as a major target.

I also care about our Club seemingly going back to the days when we employ a new manager every 18 months or so and sacking everyone who doesn't produce a miracle immediately. Even more when they try to convince me that those days are over.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby john68 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:36 pm

Doomie,
I hope you read my earlier post and understand better why I posted what I did. You know me well enough to understand I have no paranoia and am a deep thinker regarding OUR club. I have also a fair knowledge of where we have come from, and where we have been. I also look ahead to where we are going or where we may end up. I have no qualm about supporting a City who are World beaters.
May I point out that, wherever we have been in the past, whatever successes we have celebrated or failures endured, ALL THE DECISIONS TAKEN BY WHOEVER WAS IN CONTROL OF THE CLUB, WERE TAKEN WITH FOOTBALL AND MANCHESTER CITY AS THE FOCAL POINT.....That is something that is very important.

Today the situation is slightly different. we are aware that our owners bought our club to enhance "their" business plans, increase "their" image, upgrade "their" profile and enhance " their" business. I agree that by their actions, Manchester City FC will benefit BUT FOR THE 1ST TIME IN OUR HISTORY, DECISIONS WILL BE TAKEN WITH ADUG AS THE FOCAL POINT AND NOT MANCHESTER CITY.

FOR THE 1ST TIME WE ARE NOT THE PRIME OR FOREMOST INTEREST TO OUR OWNERS...Think about it.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby Socrates » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:36 pm

lythamblue wrote:If you read the board you will see that I care about lots of things, including the Carling Cup still being treated as a major target.

I also care about our Club seemingly going back to the days when we employ a new manager every 18 months or so and sacking everyone who doesn't produce a miracle immediately. Even more when they try to convince me that those days are over.


did you answer that question, about whether the managers that you give time to are your own appointments or not, yet?
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby lythamblue » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:38 pm

Socrates wrote:
lythamblue wrote:If you read the board you will see that I care about lots of things, including the Carling Cup still being treated as a major target.

I also care about our Club seemingly going back to the days when we employ a new manager every 18 months or so and sacking everyone who doesn't produce a miracle immediately. Even more when they try to convince me that those days are over.


did you answer that question, about whether the managers that you give time to are your own appointments or not, yet?


Only just noticed it .... I will answer it soon.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby DoomMerchant » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:48 pm

john68 wrote:Doomie,
I hope you read my earlier post and understand better why I posted what I did. You know me well enough to understand I have no paranoia and am a deep thinker regarding OUR club. I have also a fair knowledge of where we have come from, and where we have been. I also look ahead to where we are going or where we may end up. I have no qualm about supporting a City who are World beaters.
May I point out that, wherever we have been in the past, whatever successes we have celebrated or failures endured, ALL THE DECISIONS TAKEN BY WHOEVER WAS IN CONTROL OF THE CLUB, WERE TAKEN WITH FOOTBALL AND MANCHESTER CITY AS THE FOCAL POINT.....That is something that is very important.

Today the situation is slightly different. we are aware that our owners bought our club to enhance "their" business plans, increase "their" image, upgrade "their" profile and enhance " their" business. I agree that by their actions, Manchester City FC will benefit BUT FOR THE 1ST TIME IN OUR HISTORY, DECISIONS WILL BE TAKEN WITH ADUG AS THE FOCAL POINT AND NOT MANCHESTER CITY.

FOR THE 1ST TIME WE ARE NOT THE PRIME OR FOREMOST INTEREST TO OUR OWNERS...Think about it.



John,

You know i'm your humble servant when it comes to all things history. I've been on the end of several history lesssons and will be on the end of many more i hope my friend...but you've got to admit that the owners have treated the fans, the city and English football with a lot of respect, and those who are suggesting otherwise are honestly just being firestarters.

They can't achieve any of their aims of accomplishing something more than having just a football club without first having a top tier successful global football power. Isn't that the case?

That's the bottom line for me...They've fucling even BOUGHT mostly Prem players, thereby investing loads in other English clubs as well. I just find the idea that they are somehow disingenuous or patronizing us to further their ambition without an interest in really building a world-class brand to fall completely flat.

i find the whole angle that City's "foreign owners don't respect us as fans or the game" to be complete bullshit John.

I never really sensed this discontent in the ranks about whether ADUG's ambitions or approach was pure or real until they sacked Hughes. Maybe i missed all the threads questioning their willingness to open up the checkbook and, as LythamBlue well knows, rebuild every single fuclin aspect of our club as top shelf from top to bottom from the pitch to the clothing to the website to the catering to dare i say it...even the actual fuclin footballing which drives everything else around it.

What do you think of that?

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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby john68 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:48 pm

That is an intersting choice of words Lee...[b]I am sure that they understand their customer. Image is everything to these guys, that is why they bought our club in the first place.[/b]

One of my favourite taunts to rags has been that they are only customers and are treated as such. We at City are fans and our club treats us as such.

It seems you already understand the change that has taken place at Eastlands.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby lythamblue » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:50 pm

lythamblue wrote:
Socrates wrote:
lythamblue wrote:If you read the board you will see that I care about lots of things, including the Carling Cup still being treated as a major target.

I also care about our Club seemingly going back to the days when we employ a new manager every 18 months or so and sacking everyone who doesn't produce a miracle immediately. Even more when they try to convince me that those days are over.


did you answer that question, about whether the managers that you give time to are your own appointments or not, yet?


Only just noticed it .... I will answer it soon.


What thread was it in .... I've lost it again.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby john68 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:02 am

Doomie,
I can assure you that the timing and issue of my post and Hughes's sacking was purely coincidental, though it is quite likely that something posted on this frenetic site since yesterday possibly triggered it. But with so much going on, if it did, I couldn't remember what.
What I see, is merely an observation. I make no judgement, though I clearly see there is an implied one. None was meant.

I am coming to the end of my breathing career, let alone my City supporting career so this will not overly affect me. It will ultimately be your club and those who follow you. It will be the type of club that you support. I merely ask will it be yours or theirs and if it is theirs, will it be acceptable to you. Will you be happy to see City as the secondary part of a business partnership rather than be the primary part?

(I was joking about my breathing career BTW)...I hope
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby Socrates » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:22 am

lythamblue wrote:
lythamblue wrote:
Socrates wrote:
lythamblue wrote:If you read the board you will see that I care about lots of things, including the Carling Cup still being treated as a major target.

I also care about our Club seemingly going back to the days when we employ a new manager every 18 months or so and sacking everyone who doesn't produce a miracle immediately. Even more when they try to convince me that those days are over.


did you answer that question, about whether the managers that you give time to are your own appointments or not, yet?


Only just noticed it .... I will answer it soon.


What thread was it in .... I've lost it again.


just found it! revolting players thread...
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby Grob » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:26 am

Whilst I feel sorry for Mark as being fired mid match when we are winning is a bit harsh, he wasnt getting the job done. after Spurs it was obvious to see that Hughes wasnt the man to take us any further than top 6, so im pleased Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoon al Mubarak have shown some ruthlessness.

Business is business, lets all get behind Mancini.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby irblinx » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:05 pm

john68 wrote:Irby Mate,
Thanks for the kind word mate..and you too know I respect your views.

But....
I at no point mentioned Hughes. I am not particularly bothered that Hughes was sacked. I said at the end of last season that he would be judged by results and that appears to have happened. I have no problem with that. For the record, I have no particular feelings about Mancini, I know too little about him or his record, other than what I have read on here.
As you mention it, I have no hidden meanings either. There are none in my posts. I am not playing word games nor trying to be a martyr to Hughes's cause. My anger comes only from the arrogance a smugness of some on here and I am aware that that will only be temporary and will fade quickly.

Now, back to my point. The "OUR" in the recent advertisement of the AD game was not meant for "LOCAL" Mancunian consumption nor for the hardcore City supporter. It was meant quite clearly for the "LOCALS" of the Emirate. Their country Versus "THEIR CLUB".

Like you Irby, I am a City supporter first and foremost. I owe no allegiance, nor ever have, to any individual, be that owner, manager or player. My allegiance is to "MY" club or "OUR" club. In that respect, I will defend it against all comers and any attack.

Finally Mate, I would add that our owners are not spending their millions to enhance manchester City for the sake of John68, I doubt if they have a clue who I may be. Nor are they enhancing "OUR" club for any other individual or group of City fans. They are quite clearly as they stated at the start of this project, building City into a World force as a brand name to hang their businesses on.

They are businessmen not a charity organisation. They have said they want to open a City bank. have a City motor vehicle...all clearly stated by them in the public domain.

I agree that by doing this, we as Cty fans will benefit from seeing a better class of player, in a better team, competing in a higher quality competition. but please understand they do this for them and not us. Primarily their plan is to benefit themseves.

I again pose the question WHOSE CLUB?

We do not have to look very far to see the perfect example of a group of fans who were evicted from "Their" club.


Honestly John, you're reading to much into the OUR City thing, all City fans (especially those from the UK) were made very welcome in AD and I firmly believe that there was no arrogance behind the billing, purely endearment. Also, if any manager or player starts talking about "we" or "our" in relation to City then we usually see that as a sign that they have fully bought into the club and therefore should be taken into our hearts, why do you believe that this shouldn't be the case with the Sheikh who, no matter what the reason, HAS invested hundreds of millions of pounds into helping us acheive our shared goal of seeing City as one of the most successful teams in the world.

I know you didn't mention Hughes' sacking but if that's not what you meant by "SHOULD WE BE SUPRISED AT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR/THEIR CLUB?" then I'd love to know what you did mean. The club has never been so classy and inclusive to its fans in my living memory; the website and the likes of Chris Nield spreading the word, the fans events both in AD and at the Printworks since, the events at the stores, the City branding at the stadium etc.

Incidentally I believe that the City bank and City motor vehicle (didn't the shop used to have a City scooter in it?) were actually part of a prestentation given by Cook TO the new owners when they arrived, IIRC it was something that he'd been working on under the Dr Evil ..... sorry, Thaksin ....... and used pretty much as his interview to keep his job.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby john@staustell » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:46 pm

Going back to the OP:

On Sunday and Monday we had to wade through pages after pages of City stuff to find out if Chelsea or Manure played a game. Not all good I know but knocking everyone else off the papers all fits in with the master PR plan. There's no such thing as bad publicity, but the better publicity should come in 2010!!
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby irblinx » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:42 pm

john@staustell wrote:Going back to the OP:

On Sunday and Monday we had to wade through pages after pages of City stuff to find out if Chelsea or Manure played a game. Not all good I know but knocking everyone else off the papers all fits in with the master PR plan. There's no such thing as bad publicity, but the better publicity should come in 2010!!


Spot on, even the SSN anchor sighed at "more reaction to the situation at Manchester City", very funny. Honestly, think back 5 years, whoever thought that anything that happened at City would dominate the news for days? It happens all the time these days :o)
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby Longball » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:49 pm

Cook was a joke at the press confernce the other day- how much spin?
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby Beefymcfc » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:10 am

PR.................do we really do PR? This is Man City don't you know!!!
In the words of my Old Man, "Life will never be the same without Man City, so get it in while you can".

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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby john68 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:35 am

Irby,
I agree that at present we are benefitting from our owner's investment and I conceeded that. However I am under no illusion that that is because their interests coincide with ours.
What happens if those two sets of interests diverge?

We have seen at the rags, a number of occasions where the customers' interest are not the same as the owners.
Large areas of the ground sold to travel agents...buy the trip and get the ticket...just one instance.

We should keep a wary eye out.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby BobKowalski » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:37 am

lythamblue wrote:
King Kev wrote:[ You say that our owners have changed against thier original statements and principals, what do you mean by this? Have you got any evidence?


Read previous statements from Cookie and Khaldoon and re listen to the Interviews.

"Mark has our full backing and will be here for a long time etc"

"we know what we are trying to do is difficult but we are patient and here for the long term etc"

"We don't expect success imediately and have full confidence in our management team"

It just goes on and on ..... and now we look daft for believing it.

As the OP said, what else is PR and what can we actually believe now.

I will take the rest of your comments with a pinch of salt as you know me by now and are too old to get upset on a messageboard.


Well Hughes did have their full backing. To achieve success he needed his team around him, a no excuses culture and proven premiership players to make an immediate impact. ADUG catered for pretty much everything Hughes wanted. In return Hughes had to provide top 4 football or at the very least make a decent attempt at it. For what its worth I don't think leaking 3 goals a game for the past 3 games or 4 away wins in one and a half seasons or that disorganised shambles interspersed with moments of brillance, which has been the feature of this season, was the way forward. Its been entertaining and maddeningly frustrating in equal measure but outside of a cup or two was never going to worry the big boys at home or abroad.

It is difficult and they will be patient if they can see tangible progress. Now you may disagree with them as to what constitutes tangible progress but as its their half a billion and counting you can disagree all you want. Again I agree with their decision.

They don't expect success immediately but they do expect to be challenging for the PL title in a year or two. I would refer you to Mancini comments re a title bid :) They may have had full confidence in the management team, the fact they backed him financially would suggest this to be true. However they can also lose confidence in the management team and 16 months and £200million + on player purchases later they clearly did. This does not make them dishonest or disingenuous. It does make them practical people who reassess performances over a period of time. The key factor though was January and where ADUG going to give more money to someone they had lost confidence in. Hughes was reported as saying he needed to get players with better 'character' in and this time 'he would do his homework on them' etc. At this point anyone with any sense is going to wonder that after an influx of players over three windows could we not have perhaps done this in the first place? This season was turning into a rerun of last season with players underperforming and rumours circulating that yet again 'by chance' the players not performing were not (gasp) Hughes players. The old expression 'fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me' was never more apt.

Being here for the long term and trying to reflect City within the community is not incompatible with assessing the core business and deciding that a key member of staff is not up to the task. Additionally I find it hard to begrudge Sheikh Mansour making what is his first mangerial appointment. It is worth mentioning that in 16 months and half a billion spent on City Sheikh Mansour is only now deciding to put his own man in place. Judging by press and other reaction you would have thought he is changing managers every other month. Yet this is his first appointment and having made it he is now someone not to be trusted?

I was a Hughes outer from the day ADUG took over. I didn't think Hughes was up to the task. It was my opinion but I never pressed for Hughes to be sacked mid season as it made sense for him to see last season out and then replace him in the summer. ADUG though had different ideas so fair enough. Not once did I question ADUG's policy on this given they were closer to the situation then me. Sure I bitched about Hughes pretty much all the time. I was even begining to bore myself on the subject but if Hughes was the price for ADUG's ownership then it was price worth paying plus I figured they would see the light eventually :)

I guess then if those who didn't want Hughes sacked or who didn't like the way it was done (lessons to be learnt yes but don't apologise for getting your man lined up first) will just have to suck it up. Whats done is done and no it doesn't reflect on the owners integrity no matter what you read in the Sun.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:04 am

It wouldn't be so shit, if the top brass at City hadn't been constantly giving out the message to the press that they were more patient than other owners etc. However much some people don't rate Hughes & moan about the goals conceded, the fact is that we're right in the thick of a top 4 battle & still manage to play 4-5 attacking players in the team every game. Almost unheard of for a manager to be sacked in those circumstances so when you put it all together, the image the club was portraying & the actual truth are two very different things.

If we hadn't blabbed on about having 'patience' we wouldn't be getting so much shit but we did so we are.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby john68 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:20 am

Bob,
That was a well wrtten wel thought but post but there are several issues to cxhallenge.
The 1st point is that Lytham was discussing the difference between what the owners SAID and what they DID. That was the whole point of his post. By countering his point with your personal opinion, you fail to address this.
"THEY DON'T WANT SUCCESS IMMEDIATELY". Their action of sacking Hughes while on schedule to meet the targets they themselves set...70pts after 38 games...Two wins at Eastlands against inferior opposition in the next 2 games, would meet the halfway maths of that target EXACTLY.
The demand set of Mancini to make top 4 this season and win the League tiitle next...is also pretty immediate in English football terms...especially from the level that we previously were.

By suggesting they wanted to bring in their own man, you tacitly imply that Hughes was not their choice. When they bought the club, they were free to choose whichever manager they wanted. They made the decision to use Hughes as the vehicle for their success. They CHOSE Hughes as THEIR man. It was a decision they made.

As it stands, I happen to agree that Mancini may do a better job and turn out to be a better manager, time will tell. There may be am argument against Kytham, but you failed to meet it.
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Re: What will our amazing PR machine produce now?

Postby irblinx » Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:50 am

john68 wrote:Irby,
I agree that at present we are benefitting from our owner's investment and I conceeded that. However I am under no illusion that that is because their interests coincide with ours.
What happens if those two sets of interests diverge?

We have seen at the rags, a number of occasions where the customers' interest are not the same as the owners.
Large areas of the ground sold to travel agents...buy the trip and get the ticket...just one instance.

We should keep a wary eye out.


Your glass is half empty mate, mine half full.

If the stadium capacity is increased to 80,000 then there we be large areas available for them to do what they like with without affecting the core support. Of course we should keep an eye on them in the future but nothing that they have done so far (and especially not the Our Country v Our City billing) should cause us to be concerned.
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