Elano

[Socrates]

If Elano was as good as some think on here he would be playing for one of the top teams in Europe, he's not, he's playing in the micky mouse Turkish league and for me that says it all.

He had about 10 decent games in 2 years and took a good pen. That is not a world class player in my book! Good ridance!!

HE MIGHT HAVE AN ATTITUDE PROBLEM SIS BUT THE GUY IS ONE OF THE MAIN PLAYERS FOR BRASIL - I THINK THAT CLASSES HIM AS WORLD CLASS.

He's fantastic for Brasil and is clearly a very high class player when not handled badly. Brasilians need to feel valued, he felt valued by Sven and people who diss his attitude forget the willingness with which he filled in at right back for Sven when we had an injury crisis. He had a good first season by any standard, even without allowing for his injury during that season. Hughes played him out of position without telling him why, left him feeling like he didn't value him. Early evidence that Hughes cannot work with temperamental flair players. Plenty more evidence followed (Robinho, Ade) and constantly blaming the players for this is irrelevant as we need a manager that CAN work with players with flair and temperament if we are to reach our goals.

I hate this kind of thing. Brazilians need to feel valued? What, all of them? Is a lack of self-esteem a national trait?
I've been there and they weren't all moping around waiting for a pat on the head. Shite talk.

Is it really? You are the one with the shite thinking here, the same sort of emotional illiteracy that we saw from Hughes. Try and use a little brain and a little imagination and have a little EMPATHY FFS. Elano grew up in abject poverty of the sort you and I can only begin to imagine. His football skills have provided wealth for his family but as a kid coming through so much will have depended on him that his need to feel valued will have been overwhelming. Same for any poor Brazilian coming through. Robinho is a little different as his family were not poor but he has still been surrounded by the same culture and nurtured by the same people and will still have been competing for attention amongst the mostly poor kids. So ooh I've been there doesn't cut it.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I am really glad that some on here are totally confident that Robinho will now show what a world class player he is and wreak havoc etc etc. I hope they are right but we will see.

As for him needing to be valued I agree with Guy. To some extent all players need to be valued but they also need to do something to warrant it. Mancini I am sure will give him plenty of opportunities to get back to his best form and I don't think he will expect him to do much if any defensive covering but at the same time I don't think Mancini will let him get away with putting no effort in in the attacking role he will have.

[The Man In Blue]

Is it really? You are the one with the shite thinking here, the same sort of emotional illiteracy that we saw from Hughes. Try and use a little brain and a little imagination and have a little EMPATHY FFS. Elano grew up in abject poverty of the sort you and I can only begin to imagine. His football skills have provided wealth for his family but as a kid coming through so much will have depended on him that his need to feel valued will have been overwhelming. Same for any poor Brazilian coming through. Robinho is a little different as his family were not poor but he has still been surrounded by the same culture and nurtured by the same people and will still have been competing for attention amongst the mostly poor kids. So ooh I've been there doesn't cut it.

lads if you did not grow up in such circumstances i really don't think you can hold forth on the subject with any degree of credibility. plus, everyone reacts to their surrondings differently - how do you know what goes on in elano's head?

[Socrates]

Is it really? You are the one with the shite thinking here, the same sort of emotional illiteracy that we saw from Hughes. Try and use a little brain and a little imagination and have a little EMPATHY FFS. Elano grew up in abject poverty of the sort you and I can only begin to imagine. His football skills have provided wealth for his family but as a kid coming through so much will have depended on him that his need to feel valued will have been overwhelming. Same for any poor Brazilian coming through. Robinho is a little different as his family were not poor but he has still been surrounded by the same culture and nurtured by the same people and will still have been competing for attention amongst the mostly poor kids. So ooh I've been there doesn't cut it.

lads if you did not grow up in such circumstances i really don't think you can hold forth on the subject with any degree of credibility.

Some of us are capable of empathy and understanding, others aren't.

[The Man In Blue]

Is it really? You are the one with the shite thinking here, the same sort of emotional illiteracy that we saw from Hughes. Try and use a little brain and a little imagination and have a little EMPATHY FFS. Elano grew up in abject poverty of the sort you and I can only begin to imagine. His football skills have provided wealth for his family but as a kid coming through so much will have depended on him that his need to feel valued will have been overwhelming. Same for any poor Brazilian coming through. Robinho is a little different as his family were not poor but he has still been surrounded by the same culture and nurtured by the same people and will still have been competing for attention amongst the mostly poor kids. So ooh I've been there doesn't cut it.

lads if you did not grow up in such circumstances i really don't think you can hold forth on the subject with any degree of credibility.

Some of us are capable of empathy and understanding, others aren't.

and? you do not know elano. just because you grow up poor does not make you needy.

[Ted Hughes]

Is it really? You are the one with the shite thinking here, the same sort of emotional illiteracy that we saw from Hughes. Try and use a little brain and a little imagination and have a little EMPATHY FFS. Elano grew up in abject poverty of the sort you and I can only begin to imagine. His football skills have provided wealth for his family but as a kid coming through so much will have depended on him that his need to feel valued will have been overwhelming. Same for any poor Brazilian coming through. Robinho is a little different as his family were not poor but he has still been surrounded by the same culture and nurtured by the same people and will still have been competing for attention amongst the mostly poor kids. So ooh I've been there doesn't cut it.

lads if you did not grow up in such circumstances i really don't think you can hold forth on the subject with any degree of credibility.

Some of us are capable of empathy and understanding, others aren't.

Perhaps we should give Joey Barton another chance.

[Guy Debord]

If Elano was as good as some think on here he would be playing for one of the top teams in Europe, he's not, he's playing in the micky mouse Turkish league and for me that says it all.

He had about 10 decent games in 2 years and took a good pen. That is not a world class player in my book! Good ridance!!

HE MIGHT HAVE AN ATTITUDE PROBLEM SIS BUT THE GUY IS ONE OF THE MAIN PLAYERS FOR BRASIL - I THINK THAT CLASSES HIM AS WORLD CLASS.

He's fantastic for Brasil and is clearly a very high class player when not handled badly. Brasilians need to feel valued, he felt valued by Sven and people who diss his attitude forget the willingness with which he filled in at right back for Sven when we had an injury crisis. He had a good first season by any standard, even without allowing for his injury during that season. Hughes played him out of position without telling him why, left him feeling like he didn't value him. Early evidence that Hughes cannot work with temperamental flair players. Plenty more evidence followed (Robinho, Ade) and constantly blaming the players for this is irrelevant as we need a manager that CAN work with players with flair and temperament if we are to reach our goals.

I hate this kind of thing. Brazilians need to feel valued? What, all of them? Is a lack of self-esteem a national trait?
I've been there and they weren't all moping around waiting for a pat on the head. Shite talk.

Is it really? You are the one with the shite thinking here, the same sort of emotional illiteracy that we saw from Hughes. Try and use a little brain and a little imagination and have a little EMPATHY FFS. Elano grew up in abject poverty of the sort you and I can only begin to imagine. His football skills have provided wealth for his family but as a kid coming through so much will have depended on him that his need to feel valued will have been overwhelming. Same for any poor Brazilian coming through. Robinho is a little different as his family were not poor but he has still been surrounded by the same culture and nurtured by the same people and will still have been competing for attention amongst the mostly poor kids. So ooh I've been there doesn't cut it.

I thought you'd slipped into a bit of shite talk, now I realise your head doesn't work properly.

Your argument seems to be, all Brazilians are emotionally fragile and they as a nation, are unable to transend the curse of their nationality. Not only is this demonstrably false, but also offensively reductive.

Also, why do you keep bringing up Hughes? Those days are over.

[Original Dub]

When it comes to players like Elano i really believe that its more than just being moody. We dont get to see much of the top teams abroad week in week out and there for it tends to be in games like the Champs league, if you can't be at your best then when can you. Another big part of this is the culture, so many come over and really strugle to fit in. We all know what it feels like to be having a bad day/time at work but try having this when you away from friends and family to talk things through or just simlpy go for a bloody pint at the end of the day. This is also the case when some of the top English players whent abroad in the 90's and looked bloody stupid many of which came back with there tails between their legs, not all but most.
The reasons for me pointing these things out is simple really, we are to quick to blame the player as we only see what happens in that 90 mins of football and not what is being done to help to a person that we bring over to play in our way and in our weather. Its great if things go well but it must be bloody horrible for the person if it goes bad.

Players like Mark Hughes when he went to Spain you mean? Very good point. Hughes actually spoke about how difficult it was there and that he tries to make sure the players have help to settle. It's a real bloody shame he didn't also understand the emotional needs of players fromdifferent cultures as well as the practical needs.

You don't half talk bollox sometimes mate.

Let the Hughes thing go, you're like a dog with a bone. The guy you wanted is in place, so all is well.

As for Elano, he is fantastic substitute and that is that. There is a reason why he spent a lot of time at Shaktar on the bench, then he came to city and spent a lot of time on the bench. And there's a damn good reason why he's playing in fucking turkey.

Its because he is an inconsistant player and always will be.

It fucks me right off the way some city fans go on about him like every big club in the world let him slip through their radar and that he actually is a world class talent.

He was a trouble maker at Shaktar and he was a trouble maker at city. I'm not basing this on rumours or even on other player's opinions, but on direct quotes from him every time he went whinging to the press. I hate our club being embarrassed or dissed and for that reason alone I'm glad we fucked him off to Turkey.

[carl_feedthegoat]

[quote="Douglas Higginbottom"]I am really glad that some on here are totally confident that Robinho will now show what a world class player he is and wreak havoc etc etc. I hope they are right but we will see.

As for him needing to be valued I agree with Guy. To some extent all players need to be valued but they also need to do something to warrant it. Mancini I am sure will give him plenty of opportunities to get back to his best form and I don't think he will expect him to do much if any defensive covering but at the same time I don't think Mancini will let him get away with putting no effort in in the attacking role he will have.[/quote]


YOU MUST BE THE BIGGEST FENCE SITTER ON THE SITE..THOSE SPLINTERS MUST BE BURNING YOUR ARSE !

DO YOU THINK MANCINI WILL GET THE BEST OUT OF ROBBIE - YES OR NO?

[Original Dub]

[quote="Douglas Higginbottom"]I am really glad that some on here are totally confident that Robinho will now show what a world class player he is and wreak havoc etc etc. I hope they are right but we will see.

As for him needing to be valued I agree with Guy. To some extent all players need to be valued but they also need to do something to warrant it. Mancini I am sure will give him plenty of opportunities to get back to his best form and I don't think he will expect him to do much if any defensive covering but at the same time I don't think Mancini will let him get away with putting no effort in in the attacking role he will have.

YOU MUST BE THE BIGGEST FENCE SITTER ON THE SITE..THOSE SPLINTERS MUST BE BURNING YOUR ARSE !

DO YOU THINK MANCINI WILL GET THE BEST OUT OF ROBBIE - YES OR NO?[/quote]

In fairness mate, how the fuck can Doug or anyone answer that question... we've played 90 mins under him and Robinho was wank for 60 of them.

Maybe we should have hired Dunga, because Robinho's great for them... actually Elano is a star for them lately too so he's obviously the man!

[Ted Hughes]

[quote="Douglas Higginbottom"]I am really glad that some on here are totally confident that Robinho will now show what a world class player he is and wreak havoc etc etc. I hope they are right but we will see.

As for him needing to be valued I agree with Guy. To some extent all players need to be valued but they also need to do something to warrant it. Mancini I am sure will give him plenty of opportunities to get back to his best form and I don't think he will expect him to do much if any defensive covering but at the same time I don't think Mancini will let him get away with putting no effort in in the attacking role he will have.

YOU MUST BE THE BIGGEST FENCE SITTER ON THE SITE..THOSE SPLINTERS MUST BE BURNING YOUR ARSE !

DO YOU THINK MANCINI WILL GET THE BEST OUT OF ROBBIE - YES OR NO?[/quote]

It's called honesty. Anyone who says they know for sure he'll get the best out of him is lying & full of shit. It's impossible to know for sure. I hope he does but think he won't & will sell him at the end of the season. I'll be delighted to be wrong.

[Socrates]

HE MIGHT HAVE AN ATTITUDE PROBLEM SIS BUT THE GUY IS ONE OF THE MAIN PLAYERS FOR BRASIL - I THINK THAT CLASSES HIM AS WORLD CLASS.

He's fantastic for Brasil and is clearly a very high class player when not handled badly. Brasilians need to feel valued, he felt valued by Sven and people who diss his attitude forget the willingness with which he filled in at right back for Sven when we had an injury crisis. He had a good first season by any standard, even without allowing for his injury during that season. Hughes played him out of position without telling him why, left him feeling like he didn't value him. Early evidence that Hughes cannot work with temperamental flair players. Plenty more evidence followed (Robinho, Ade) and constantly blaming the players for this is irrelevant as we need a manager that CAN work with players with flair and temperament if we are to reach our goals.

I hate this kind of thing. Brazilians need to feel valued? What, all of them? Is a lack of self-esteem a national trait?
I've been there and they weren't all moping around waiting for a pat on the head. Shite talk.

Is it really? You are the one with the shite thinking here, the same sort of emotional illiteracy that we saw from Hughes. Try and use a little brain and a little imagination and have a little EMPATHY FFS. Elano grew up in abject poverty of the sort you and I can only begin to imagine. His football skills have provided wealth for his family but as a kid coming through so much will have depended on him that his need to feel valued will have been overwhelming. Same for any poor Brazilian coming through. Robinho is a little different as his family were not poor but he has still been surrounded by the same culture and nurtured by the same people and will still have been competing for attention amongst the mostly poor kids. So ooh I've been there doesn't cut it.

I thought you'd slipped into a bit of shite talk, now I realise your head doesn't work properly.

Your argument seems to be, all Brazilians are emotionally fragile and they as a nation, are unable to transend the curse of their nationality. Not only is this demonstrably false, but also offensively reductive.

Also, why do you keep bringing up Hughes? Those days are over.

Nope. My argument is that the culture amongst Brazilian football academies and the poverty amongst the majority of their entrants produces players who need their egosconstantly massaging. You are the one going on about whole countries having traits not me...

[The Man In Blue]

Nope. My argument is that the culture amongst Brazilian football academies and the poverty amongst the majority of their entrants produces players who need their egosconstantly massaging. You are the one going on about whole countries having traits not me...

how can you genralise like that? do you think brazil is the only country where poor kids escape the drudgery of their daily life through footy?

[carl_feedthegoat]

[quote="Douglas Higginbottom"]I am really glad that some on here are totally confident that Robinho will now show what a world class player he is and wreak havoc etc etc. I hope they are right but we will see.

As for him needing to be valued I agree with Guy. To some extent all players need to be valued but they also need to do something to warrant it. Mancini I am sure will give him plenty of opportunities to get back to his best form and I don't think he will expect him to do much if any defensive covering but at the same time I don't think Mancini will let him get away with putting no effort in in the attacking role he will have.

YOU MUST BE THE BIGGEST FENCE SITTER ON THE SITE..THOSE SPLINTERS MUST BE BURNING YOUR ARSE !

DO YOU THINK MANCINI WILL GET THE BEST OUT OF ROBBIE - YES OR NO?

In fairness mate, how the fuck can Doug or anyone answer that question... we've played 90 mins under him and Robinho was wank for 60 of them.

Maybe we should have hired Dunga, because Robinho's great for them... actually Elano is a star for them lately too so he's obviously the man![/quote]

BECAUSE MANCINI HAS A SUPPOSED HISTORY OF GETTING THE BEST OUT OF PLAYERS WITH TALENT - THAT FOR ME IS A CONFIDENT "YES HE CAN". INSTEAD OF "LETS SEE"........

[Ted Hughes]

Can somebody please tell me exactly when Robinho has consistantly produced great quality football, home & away, in his career? It's certainly not for Brazil.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Can somebody please tell me exactly when Robinho has consistantly produced great quality football, home & away, in his career? It's certainly not for Brazil.

THERE ISNT ONE FOOTBALLER WHO HAS EVER PRODUCED "great quality football, home & away, in his career?"

[Guy Debord]

He's fantastic for Brasil and is clearly a very high class player when not handled badly. Brasilians need to feel valued, he felt valued by Sven and people who diss his attitude forget the willingness with which he filled in at right back for Sven when we had an injury crisis. He had a good first season by any standard, even without allowing for his injury during that season. Hughes played him out of position without telling him why, left him feeling like he didn't value him. Early evidence that Hughes cannot work with temperamental flair players. Plenty more evidence followed (Robinho, Ade) and constantly blaming the players for this is irrelevant as we need a manager that CAN work with players with flair and temperament if we are to reach our goals.[/quote]


I hate this kind of thing. Brazilians need to feel valued? What, all of them? Is a lack of self-esteem a national trait?
I've been there and they weren't all moping around waiting for a pat on the head. Shite talk.[/quote]

Is it really? You are the one with the shite thinking here, the same sort of emotional illiteracy that we saw from Hughes. Try and use a little brain and a little imagination and have a little EMPATHY FFS. Elano grew up in abject poverty of the sort you and I can only begin to imagine. His football skills have provided wealth for his family but as a kid coming through so much will have depended on him that his need to feel valued will have been overwhelming. Same for any poor Brazilian coming through. Robinho is a little different as his family were not poor but he has still been surrounded by the same culture and nurtured by the same people and will still have been competing for attention amongst the mostly poor kids. So [i]ooh I've been there doesn't cut it.[/quote]

I thought you'd slipped into a bit of shite talk, now I realise your head doesn't work properly.

Your argument seems to be, all Brazilians are emotionally fragile and they as a nation, are unable to transend the curse of their nationality. Not only is this demonstrably false, but also offensively reductive.

Also, why do you keep bringing up Hughes? Those days are over.[/quote]

Nope. My argument is that the culture amongst Brazilian [i]football academies and the poverty amongst the majority of their entrants produces players who need their egosconstantly massaging. You are the one going on about whole countries having traits not me...[/quote][/i]
[/i]

I see, two things then. On evidence of which Brazilian football academies do you base your argument? And on what evidence do you base your opinion that poor people need their ego's constantly massaging?

If you can't be bothered to answer these questions you could just give in and admit your shite talking. We already know it.

[Socrates]

Nope. My argument is that the culture amongst Brazilian football academies and the poverty amongst the majority of their entrants produces players who need their egosconstantly massaging. You are the one going on about whole countries having traits not me...

how can you genralise like that? do you think brazil is the only country where poor kids escape the drudgery of their daily life through footy?

The importance of football combined with the poverty makes Brasil unique. Or are you saying Brasil isn't unique in terms of the type of footballer (and personailty) it produces?

[Ted Hughes]

Can somebody please tell me exactly when Robinho has consistantly produced great quality football, home & away, in his career? It's certainly not for Brazil.

THERE ISNT ONE FOOTBALLER WHO HAS EVER PRODUCED "great quality football, home & away, in his career?"

I mean just basic consistancy. Once or twice he's turned in inspired performances for Brazil but most of the time he's a peripheral figure, exactly the same as he is for us & sometimes I've been shuffling with embarrassment watching him. Imo last season was a typical Robinho season. That's what he does. So long as he doesn't cause shit & expect to start every game then we should just use him like Madrid did; drop him when he's shite & make the most of it when he's on form.

[The Man In Blue]

Nope. My argument is that the culture amongst Brazilian football academies and the poverty amongst the majority of their entrants produces players who need their egosconstantly massaging. You are the one going on about whole countries having traits not me...

how can you genralise like that? do you think brazil is the only country where poor kids escape the drudgery of their daily life through footy?

The importance of football combined with the poverty makes Brasil unique. Or are you saying Brasil isn't unique in terms of the type of footballer (and personailty) it produces?

course it is not unique. most major football nations in the world can produce mercurial, lazy primadonnas. are you saying this is the only temperament brazilian footballers can have?