Chelsea Lose £45 Mil... And Write Off A Further 340

[Socrates]

Its just a game of politics being played by Platini so he gets more people to vote for him.By proposing what seems common sense to the poorer clubs and everboby else.However in the real world of finance where such large sums of money are involved he cant change a thing.He might introduce a few rules that do nothing and save his face a little but as for implementing financial fairness he will never be able to make it law.Anyway we have no debt so income streams are a simple matter of accounting.I think 2012 is the date Platini has given to make this happen.I'm pretty sure nothing will have changed by then but we will just have to wait and see as there is little any of us can do except watch what the Sheikhs lawyers do when they are confronted with this challenge.

There's no point revisiting this argument with you as you have made your mind up what it is about and clearly either haven't read, or don't understand, the proposals. It has nothing to do with debt or financial fairness. It may not come into force until 2012 but will be based on prior year accounts, that's 2011 - next season. There is nothing lawyers can do about it. The Sheikh has already accepted the reality. That's why he accelerated the player spending last summer. That's why he changed the targets for Hughes. That's why he announced £500m of future spending on the Academy.

So the Sheikh has already taken care of it ,so wheres the problem.If he has spent what he was gonna already on our team and announced the expenditure on the Academy nothing can be or has been done about it.Platini is to late as you say yourself we have already spent it and if its based on next years acconnts we can spend oodles next year aswell.

He's doing all he can about it. Not the same as having taken care of it! And if it's based on next years accounts we cannot spend next year as that spending would be in next years accounts...

Why cant we spend next year?One minute you say its based on next years spending then its not.What rules are in place that say we cannot spend next year.None.

The answer is your question...

[zuricity]

Never mind what the PL thinks or City think

Do you honestly think the Bundesliga teams will let Platini get ways with this? No way Jose !

A cartel is exactly that, a 'Cartel'. Goverment do their utmost to break things like Cartels up where they work against market forces. Working for the G14, is working against every other non G14 club active in UEFA football and there are quite a lot of them to get on Platinis case. Don't forget that.

[Ted Hughes]

Never mind what the PL thinks or City think

Do you honestly think the Bundesliga teams will let Platini get ways with this? No way Jose !

A cartel is exactly that, a 'Cartel'. Goverment do their utmost to break things like Cartels up where they work against market forces. Working for the G14, is working against every other non G14 club active in UEFA football and there are quite a lot of them to get on Platinis case. Don't forget that.

I can see how, when the plan comes in, they can enforce sanctions against clubs who borrow money they can't pay back but I just don't believe they can bring in sanctions that cut off a club's revenue. That could end up with a club going out of business because they were denied chumps league revenue they were perfectly entitled to. Imagine that one in court!

[Renato_CTID]

Honestly this is not football at all! Don't matter if it happens in England, Italy or each country of the world. Once upon a time a famous bandit came from Siberia to London. Everybody knew he was a terrible killer in his youngest age, he stayed in jail for a year or two. Then he decided to escape from Russia with all his money misteriously founded and bought a football team.
Nobody told nothing about it and day by day this man now is respected like a good clever businessman.
Nor Moratti, neither Berlusconi or old Avvocato Gianni Agnelli, may be neither Florentino Perez the same could be the real shame and scandal of world football actually like Roman Abramovich is!!!

[Socrates]

Never mind what the PL thinks or City think

Do you honestly think the Bundesliga teams will let Platini get ways with this? No way Jose !

A cartel is exactly that, a 'Cartel'. Goverment do their utmost to break things like Cartels up where they work against market forces. Working for the G14, is working against every other non G14 club active in UEFA football and there are quite a lot of them to get on Platinis case. Don't forget that.

Which Bundesliga clubs are represented in the European Club Association? Bayern Munich will love these proposals as they will limit the threat of the likes of Wolfsburg...

[Swales4ever]

Roman has plouged this money into Chelski to pay less tax on money he has to declare and Platini and his bum chums can have as many grand and noble ideas they want about financial fairness but when it comes to implementing them he wont be able to do it.
Do people think that Platini can stop people earning money legally because they are in legal debt.

You are still missing the point - commercial debt is allowed under the proposals as long as the interest payments are covered by income in the same way as player wages and other non-capital expenses (Academy excluded) are. It is non-commercial debt/income that will not be permitted - that is money from rich owners. It's not aimed just at us but at clubs like us. It's just the extent of our resources that has given them a wake up call. What makes it all the more likely to come about is the fact that it entrenches the positions of Champions League clubs in smaller countries too and therefore has much wider support than it should have.

Its just a game of politics being played by Platini so he gets more people to vote for him.By proposing what seems common sense to the poorer clubs and everboby else.However in the real world of finance where such large sums of money are involved he cant change a thing.He might introduce a few rules that do nothing and save his face a little but as for implementing financial fairness he will never be able to make it law.Anyway we have no debt so income streams are a simple matter of accounting.I think 2012 is the date Platini has given to make this happen.I'm pretty sure nothing will have changed by then but we will just have to wait and see as there is little any of us can do except watch what the Sheikhs lawyers do when they are confronted with this challenge.

There's no point revisiting this argument with you as you have made your mind up what it is about and clearly either haven't read, or don't understand, the proposals. It has nothing to do with debt or financial fairness. It may not come into force until 2012 but will be based on prior year accounts, that's 2011 - next season. There is nothing lawyers can do about it. The Sheikh has already accepted the reality. That's why he accelerated the player spending last summer. That's why he changed the targets for Hughes. That's why he announced £500m of future spending on the Academy.

While I underwrite what Socrates_Mate is kindly and very effectively explaining all of us in terms of fair technicalities and I'd like to thanks You, Sir, once again for the well worthy free advice and consultancy You provide my point of view still remains more mean and cynical. Let me stress a couple of points:
- Platini is not the only one that can benefit from appointment of lawiers and accountants brain trust: the more rich you are the most delivering advisors you can appoint: why the hell in the U.S. the only people who pays the price of the Society's desire for Revenge (i.e. death penalty) are those from the lower steps of social stair and education?;
- the idea itself of the "cospiracy theory" vs. H.M. the Sheik as a Club Owner, looks quite improbable, providing that he ìs not only a hugely rich man, but quite a Chief of State (through his family) so that he's not only in the position to afford the power of money but the power of real politics - now Platini, that is actually as clever as populist like his greatest point of reference and possible future target, FIFA's Blatter, won't never go for create himself an enimicity with a Man that would be able to strike against him at least all the fottball assotiations of Arabic Countries: most possibly will try co-opt inside the plans: there's alwayse a further slice of cake of a powerfull entity...
- then and mostly, if we want to stay outside the "political fiction": since commercial and corporate law has been established, there had always been many ways to turn and manipulate balance sheets.... just because they are simply sheets...
In my poor and shamefull Country there is an old adage that say about "issued the law, find out the trickery"
Just an example: does anybody remenber what in the italian top football has been known as "Administrative doping"? At least Socrates does...

Frankly, on my modest opinion, it's just politics and show off. What said about Owner's plans accelaration it is pure truth and wise analisys, but I can't take those as clues of any worries or concerns. You only go first to accomplish with regulations... it's just a mean of showing a little piece of the muscles.

would take the occasion to wish everibody an happy first CL year... :-)
I'm already planning to get the plane to Manchester.

[city_bhoy]

Wow some of the most intelligent posting I've ever seen on any City forum.Socrates, hat's off to you & mcfc1632 (and others) for explaining this 'cartel' business so lucidly.I've understood the reason for Garry cook's behaviour & Hughes'' departure now

[Vhero]

One question that springs out to me from that article is 'How Much Are Chelsea Worth?'. If RA has written off close to £700 million, would he recoup that if he sold the club? The mind boggles!!

On the same note, how much has Sheikh Mansour pumped into ours and how much are we now worth considering we don't own a stadium?

I was thinking the same and I honestly don't think they are worth 700 million or anywhere near it unlike the rags which are probably worth around that because of worldwide following. Chelsea just doesn't have that kind of worldwide appeal.

[mcfc1632]

It is easier to get the seriousness and reality of this when you realise who the drivers are - Platini is actually being driven.

A number of the 'top' clubs have been involved in discussions both between each other and with Platini - who is desperately trying to head off another 'break-away challenge' - that happens UeFA power collapses - and do not forget the strength of these top clubs is such that last time the G14 challenge was essentially caved into - to the extent that the CL became a European league and the UeFA cup (a previously prestigious competition) was crudely thrashed to provide parachute revenue for the G14

So who (apart from Platini) is making the noise?

1/ Perez on behalf of RM has been most explicit and stated that the 'top' clubs need to create a revised CL guaranteeing that they play each other without any relegation. This is the most serious and clear statement of intent - it would see a closed shop - it would allow for new re-negotiation of television rights exclusively for these clubs and at the expense of 'the rest' and even Uefa - this is core to the Platini fears

2/ the other G14 European clubs have been less explicit but all voiced support - a number of them are very keen on the idea as they have 'faded' in recent years and this will bring them back to the top table

But in England...

3/The scum have been involved in talks directly with RM and Platini and have publicly stated that they would welcome these proposals - they would - their personal business model - like a 'super buy-to-let' (along with RM) - is the model used to test the proposals and is at the heart of the 'debt is not a problem so long as it is formally financed and the club's turnover can meet the payments within a certain percentage.....' mantra of Platini - just think of that one single aspect of the proposals and its strips away any of the belief people can have in it 'being fair across all clubs' - such a regulation is wholly biased to just a few clubs - err - you guessed which ones - and demonstrates clearly that Platini is the monkey not the organ grinder

4/ Liverpool have stated clearly and publicly that they welcome these 'emerging' proposals - and their input is also to ensure that 'new stadium' debt is not counted against them - to ensure that they can fund that and increase their 'core revenues'

5/ Arsenal have stated that they support these proposals and have been most prudent in curbing their debt and investing in youth - but they were also quick to ensure that they got to their new stadium.

5/ Chelsea are the most interesting - they were outside the cartel but there has been recognition that they are now established and need to be brought into the tent - it is a blatant exposure of the cartel thinking that Platini has publicly stated that he has held direct talks with Roman and that he now supports the proposals....... - Of course he would - it will stymie the likes of CITY and therefore will curb the need for him putting more personal wealth in - which he clearly wants to reduce - it will allow him to restructure the debts to come with the 'formal debt' rules and then you will see the club able to borrow against the club in future years for players and (some repayments to him) - watch their push for a new ground to increase core revenues

Just imagine the threat to Roman if a few years go by - his current squad is past it - his youth system is not dominating and he is at the same small ground - if they drop out of the top 4 - then he could be left with nothing for all his investment


Now to CITY - we have been the catalyst for the hasty bringing forward these proposals into the public domain - all of a sudden just allowing a place at the trough to go to the top 4 is not a guarantee for the 'sky 4' - actually if we muscle in on a permanent basis - this approach would actually exclude one of the top 4 - so they have to do something - and do something quick to address this

On a basis of 'fairness' I actually want these rules to be blown apart as they will preclude so much that is at the heart of football - that clubs can aspire..... On a self-interest level I actually think that UeFA might have to act to include CITY if we get to CL this year and clearly are going to stay top 4 - but the Sheik and advisers are well onto this - hence accelerated spending - action on Hughes now - action on academies / bigger stadium etc

People have said "what about the EPL.... they have rubbished....' - well its is not their competition and they also act out of self-interest - but if push comes to shove - who dominates the EPL - well you guessed - the Sky4 and they will find some accommodation...

People have said "what about SKY...... they will hate it.." well actually probably the opposite - they would only hate it if they did not get the revised contract but if they could negotiate a direct deal - well then they win and the 'top clubs' win

Carl rightly mentioned how ludicrous it would be if we were winning the PL every year and not allowed to enter..... yes this would be the nightmare scenario for UeFA and I think that we might be 'getting in' just in time to perhaps force some accommodation - but that is another reason why we need top 4 this season - but then we would have to be winning year on year - not just one - it would look silly - but we will be friendless and it could be portrayed as UeFA acting to stop perverse things happening that allow individuals to 'buy' the CL.

Actually - given the Perez focus - it would be no problem at all as it would not be a CL any more - with qualification through individual leagues - so at a stroke the EPL (and other leagues) get devalued as the UeFA cup was - but that would not stress the 'top clubs' - they have their seat at the table and the guarantee of massive revenues in a closed shop - this breakaway is the real nightmare for UeFA (and why Platini is doing whatever makes these clubs stay with UeFA) - at a stroke they control nothing. People should not underestimate the motivation of the clubs that would be in the closed shop to protect their interests - nor SKY having a a guaranteed media circus - UeFA and the EPL would crumble in their resolve and do anything to prevent the decoupling of leagues from CL

There will be twists to come - and thank fuck we have been taken over by the Sheik otherwise we would never be in the mix - but this is a clear and present danger and needs to be considered (as Soc's has said) the most important threat to CITY

[city_bhoy]

mcfc1632 how exactly are you privy to such information?

Once again your knowledge is much appreciated

[john@staustell]

You speak wisely 1632 but illustrate my point. Liverpool, at this rate, will be irrelevant because they're going down the pan and wont have a say. Whatever their 'history' they will be forgotten in a jiffy at the top table.

If City get the results, we will become 'the establishment' and have a say.

[Ted Hughes]

If what some people are saying is true & the Sheikh has been working so hard to get everything done quickly because we have to balance the books next season & he can't get round it, then our spending next season has to be almost zero. We can't balance the wage bill let alone more signings.

If that's to be the case, he's obviously not told Mancini as he's talking about bringing in 'top players' for the Chump's league. Both these things can't be true, so which is it?

I recon it's a load of bollocks, we'll spend a fucking fortune on 2-3 players, the Sheikh will introduce more money into the club & Platini's panel will do fuck all because that's all they can do.

[Rag_hater]

It is easier to get the seriousness and reality of this when you realise who the drivers are - Platini is actually being driven.

A number of the 'top' clubs have been involved in discussions both between each other and with Platini - who is desperately trying to head off another 'break-away challenge' - that happens UeFA power collapses - and do not forget the strength of these top clubs is such that last time the G14 challenge was essentially caved into - to the extent that the CL became a European league and the UeFA cup (a previously prestigious competition) was crudely thrashed to provide parachute revenue for the G14

So who (apart from Platini) is making the noise?

1/ Perez on behalf of RM has been most explicit and stated that the 'top' clubs need to create a revised CL guaranteeing that they play each other without any relegation. This is the most serious and clear statement of intent - it would see a closed shop - it would allow for new re-negotiation of television rights exclusively for these clubs and at the expense of 'the rest' and even Uefa - this is core to the Platini fears

2/ the other G14 European clubs have been less explicit but all voiced support - a number of them are very keen on the idea as they have 'faded' in recent years and this will bring them back to the top table

But in England...

3/The scum have been involved in talks directly with RM and Platini and have publicly stated that they would welcome these proposals - they would - their personal business model - like a 'super buy-to-let' (along with RM) - is the model used to test the proposals and is at the heart of the 'debt is not a problem so long as it is formally financed and the club's turnover can meet the payments within a certain percentage.....' mantra of Platini - just think of that one single aspect of the proposals and its strips away any of the belief people can have in it 'being fair across all clubs' - such a regulation is wholly biased to just a few clubs - err - you guessed which ones - and demonstrates clearly that Platini is the monkey not the organ grinder

4/ Liverpool have stated clearly and publicly that they welcome these 'emerging' proposals - and their input is also to ensure that 'new stadium' debt is not counted against them - to ensure that they can fund that and increase their 'core revenues'

5/ Arsenal have stated that they support these proposals and have been most prudent in curbing their debt and investing in youth - but they were also quick to ensure that they got to their new stadium.

5/ Chelsea are the most interesting - they were outside the cartel but there has been recognition that they are now established and need to be brought into the tent - it is a blatant exposure of the cartel thinking that Platini has publicly stated that he has held direct talks with Roman and that he now supports the proposals....... - Of course he would - it will stymie the likes of CITY and therefore will curb the need for him putting more personal wealth in - which he clearly wants to reduce - it will allow him to restructure the debts to come with the 'formal debt' rules and then you will see the club able to borrow against the club in future years for players and (some repayments to him) - watch their push for a new ground to increase core revenues

Just imagine the threat to Roman if a few years go by - his current squad is past it - his youth system is not dominating and he is at the same small ground - if they drop out of the top 4 - then he could be left with nothing for all his investment


Now to CITY - we have been the catalyst for the hasty bringing forward these proposals into the public domain - all of a sudden just allowing a place at the trough to go to the top 4 is not a guarantee for the 'sky 4' - actually if we muscle in on a permanent basis - this approach would actually exclude one of the top 4 - so they have to do something - and do something quick to address this

On a basis of 'fairness' I actually want these rules to be blown apart as they will preclude so much that is at the heart of football - that clubs can aspire..... On a self-interest level I actually think that UeFA might have to act to include CITY if we get to CL this year and clearly are going to stay top 4 - but the Sheik and advisers are well onto this - hence accelerated spending - action on Hughes now - action on academies / bigger stadium etc

People have said "what about the EPL.... they have rubbished....' - well its is not their competition and they also act out of self-interest - but if push comes to shove - who dominates the EPL - well you guessed - the Sky4 and they will find some accommodation...

People have said "what about SKY...... they will hate it.." well actually probably the opposite - they would only hate it if they did not get the revised contract but if they could negotiate a direct deal - well then they win and the 'top clubs' win

Carl rightly mentioned how ludicrous it would be if we were winning the PL every year and not allowed to enter..... yes this would be the nightmare scenario for UeFA and I think that we might be 'getting in' just in time to perhaps force some accommodation - but that is another reason why we need top 4 this season - but then we would have to be winning year on year - not just one - it would look silly - but we will be friendless and it could be portrayed as UeFA acting to stop perverse things happening that allow individuals to 'buy' the CL.

Actually - given the Perez focus - it would be no problem at all as it would not be a CL any more - with qualification through individual leagues - so at a stroke the EPL (and other leagues) get devalued as the UeFA cup was - but that would not stress the 'top clubs' - they have their seat at the table and the guarantee of massive revenues in a closed shop - this breakaway is the real nightmare for UeFA (and why Platini is doing whatever makes these clubs stay with UeFA) - at a stroke they control nothing. People should not underestimate the motivation of the clubs that would be in the closed shop to protect their interests - nor SKY having a a guaranteed media circus - UeFA and the EPL would crumble in their resolve and do anything to prevent the decoupling of leagues from CL

There will be twists to come - and thank fuck we have been taken over by the Sheik otherwise we would never be in the mix - but this is a clear and present danger and needs to be considered (as Soc's has said) the most important threat to CITY

The whole point of being in the CL is having a team that is capable of being in the top 4.
And as you say yourself if we did achieve that aim then they would have to find some way of accomodating us.And if that is the case what is the problem and if it allows successful teams to enter it,it cant be a closed shop.
The only hinderence I can see to us entering the CL if the big clubs make a break away league in which case they are not a part of Uefa.
And then it is not the champions league.It is for want of a better expression a Europa league.And besides the fans of these clubs it will surely lose its appeal to the general public and the money from Sky and the other media companies that sponser it.