Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

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Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby shawzy » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:57 pm

Despite having only played two games under Mancini, the differences between the styles and attitudes of the Managers are gulfs apart. Many may think that it is too early to compare the two, but the initial changes warrant a closer look.

Probably Mark Hughes biggest downfall was his reported stubbornness, it was either his way or no way at all, Player such as Dunne and Elano who didn’t fully buy into Hughes idea’s were moved on and there was no doubt a divide within the dressing room. Many a time there were reports in the media of player bust ups with the likes of Richards and Ben Hiam to name a couple, so it is understandable that the team was struggling and not progressing at the rate expected by money spent. Petrov’s recent attack of Hughes on the clubs official website summed it up when he said Hughes didn’t give him a fair chance. Yet under Mancini everyone has a fresh slate and the team seems to have bonded as a whole and want to play for the manager. It was as though Hughes was constantly trying to reinforce he was the boss when it wasn’t required and he should been developing the sides style of play.

Mancini’s tactical awareness really set him apart from Hughes, where Hughes would often only play 4-3-3 no matter what the opposition’s formation is. Mancini isn’t afraid of switching between formations during the game, illustrated in both the Stoke and Wolves games to great success with goals often following shortly after the change. It would seem between both Mancini and Kidd there is always a plan B, C etc, often instigated with a before mentioned formation switch or a substitute. Yet under Hughes with the same squad there was only ever a plan A and some of the substitutions were bewildering to say the least.

Team selection is another point where the managers differ; Mark Hughes could often be accused of playing his favours such as Evans, Adebayor, Toure and Lescott no matter how poorly they performed, whilst players like Petrov, Kompany and Elano lay in the wing. The only tangible reason for this is the fact he demanded that so much money should be spent on the players, hence felt a pressure to stick by them to save face. Mancini on the other hand seems to take the approach of impress me and you’ll play, resulting in all the players being motivated as they feel a legitimate possibility of playing in the first team. Garrido is probably the best example of this, under Hughes he was effectively relegated to the reserves and looked certain to leave the club in favour for firstly cult figure Glauber who wasn’t deemed good enough feature at all, bar a small cameo at Bolton and more recently an aging Sylvinho who hasn’t looked up to much in any of his outings to date. Remember Garrido was part of the defence that impressed many under the tutorage of Hans Backe whilst Sven was at the helm.

Many will say Garrido was found out in the later part of that season, but wasn’t the whole defence? In fact the collapse of Sven’s sole season in charge coincides with the departure of Hans Backe on compassionate leave. Until Mancini took over Backe was never really replaced, it was clear over Hughes entire reign that we were very susceptible from set pieces and poorly positioned defensively. Yet as glaring as this was to many a fan Hughes never truly addressed the situation through training regimes or new coaches and insisted that investing in new defenders would solve the problem. It’s highly unlikely that Dunne has moved on to Villa and recaptured his form whilst Micah Richard’s career stalled because they weren’t good enough. You don’t become captain of Ireland and the youngest ever defender to appear for England respectively because you lack talent. Since Mancini has taken over, the defence is playing like a unit with clear roles for each player, two clean sheets in two games proves this and it can only improve with time.

hughesHughes also seemed to lack imagination at times, especially with his dealings in the transfer market. By ruling out the possibility of signing player without Premier League experience, he was severely reducing the amount of potential players, hence upping the price of any player he desired, as well as showing that the pressure was starting to take a grip of him. Mancini on the other hand hasn’t been scared of taking calculated risks on unknown players such as Bolatelli and Suazo or high profile player such as Ibrahimovic or Vieira despite lack of experience within the league he is managing in.

Finally Mancini’s attention to details seems to be of a vaster importance, In both games Mancini has been on the touchline either talking idea’s over with Kidd or instructing his players of what they need to be doing, even in the last remaining minutes of stoppage time when City are leading comfortably. If anything this shows his players on the field how passionate he is about the game and his desire to ensure the win. Yet under Hughes there would be games where he would remain rooted to his seat looking glumly at his side hoping his initial plan works or complaining about a wrong desission rather than thinking of way to improve the team’s fortunes.
Last edited by shawzy on Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:07 pm

AS HAS BEEN SAID MANY MANY TIMES -ONE IS A PROVEN WINNER ,GREAT MAN MANAGER WITH BIG STARS AND IT,S SHOWING AND THE OTHER NEVER PROVED IT IN THE 18 MONTHS HE WAS WITH US AND THAT ALSO SHOWED.

IT,S THAT SIMPLE IMO.
THEY SAY SWEARING IS DUE TO A LIMITED VOCABULARY. I KNOW THOUSANDS OF WORDS, BUT I STILL PREFER "FUCK OFF" TO "GO AWAY"
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby Wonderwall » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:09 pm

trying to draw comparison now is too soon IMO. We have not seen hardly anything of Mancini and especially how he will operate in the transfer market. I cannot see anything wrong in what MH did in the market, bringing prem experienced quality players was definitely the right thing to do and it gave us the basis of where we are right now.

Time will tell, and it is going to be very interesting to see how the future of the zonal system will fair with the same players who were poor at marking their man.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby carl_feedthegoat » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:11 pm

Wonderwall wrote:trying to draw comparison now is too soon IMO. We have not seen hardly anything of Mancini and especially how he will operate in the transfer market. I cannot see anything wrong in what MH did in the market, bringing prem experienced quality players was definitely the right thing to do and it gave us the basis of where we are right now.

Time will tell, and it is going to be very interesting to see how the future of the zonal system will fair with the same players who were poor at marking their man.


I HAVE MY SUSPICIONS THAT THIS ZONAL SYSTEM IS A QUICK FIX MATE GIVEN HOW SHOCKINGLY BAD EACH INDIVIDUAL HAS BEEN THIS SEASON.
IF MANCINI GETS IN ANOTHER CB WHO CNA ACTUALLY COMMAND THAT AREA THEN WE MAY SEE SOMETHING ELSE.
THEY SAY SWEARING IS DUE TO A LIMITED VOCABULARY. I KNOW THOUSANDS OF WORDS, BUT I STILL PREFER "FUCK OFF" TO "GO AWAY"
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby Wonderwall » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:12 pm

carl_feedthegoat wrote:
Wonderwall wrote:trying to draw comparison now is too soon IMO. We have not seen hardly anything of Mancini and especially how he will operate in the transfer market. I cannot see anything wrong in what MH did in the market, bringing prem experienced quality players was definitely the right thing to do and it gave us the basis of where we are right now.

Time will tell, and it is going to be very interesting to see how the future of the zonal system will fair with the same players who were poor at marking their man.


I HAVE MY SUSPICIONS THAT THIS ZONAL SYSTEM IS A QUICK FIX MATE GIVEN HOW SHOCKINGLY BAD EACH INDIVIDUAL HAS BEEN THIS SEASON.
IF MANCINI GETS IN ANOTHER CB WHO CNA ACTUALLY COMMAND THAT AREA THEN WE MAY SEE SOMETHING ELSE.


It would be good if he uses both, it will keep the opposition guessing and certainly make them work more to prepare for out games. We need that kind of tactical ability to change when we need to, during gameplay.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby CityFanFromRome » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:27 pm

Well it is of course too early to judge and make comparisons but so far the only good of Hughes' reign has been his ability on the market (although, if Lescott doesn't perform when he comes back from injury, the high price paid for him will look as a waste), while tactically I have seen much better in two games from Mancini than in the whole Hughes era regarding the ability to adjust the team tactics to the opposition, which often marks the difference between a win and a draw (or a loss).
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby shawzy » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:39 pm

CityFanFromRome wrote:Well it is of course too early to judge and make comparisons but so far the only good of Hughes' reign has been his ability on the market (although, if Lescott doesn't perform when he comes back from injury, the high price paid for him will look as a waste), while tactically I have seen much better in two games from Mancini than in the whole Hughes era regarding the ability to adjust the team tactics to the opposition, which often marks the difference between a win and a draw (or a loss).


Hey m8...Is zonal marking popular with many teams in Italy?
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby bellamys dodgy knee » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:16 pm

Hughes was a tactical dunce, the best example was the game against Burnley when he brought on Petrov while we were leading 3-2.

He switched SWP to the left wing and Petrov on the right, we went on to draw the game 3-3..

IMO he should have been sacked then..
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby ronk » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:33 pm

I definitely think it's a mistake to draw some of the conclusions so quickly. There's been very little to go on and it's suspect to extrapolate.

One example that's given is Mancini's willingness to change formation early: but of course, he's a brand new manager and he has to experiment to get to know the team. He will always be quicker to change because he's more likely to get it wrong the first time (and to be aware of that). He could easily settle down and be as resistant to change.

Mancini has won two uncomplicated games against teams that Hughes had been expected to beat. Yes, the manner is different but that was always going to happen with a change of management. Let's not be too harsh on his abilities, Hughes brought us some damn good days. We've beaten Arsenal twice and Chelsea this season.

Hughes was more than capable of buying relative unknowns like Zabaleta and Kompany: young unproven players. He was willing to go against the grain in purchasing Given (and paying the price of that). The transfer policy was deliberate and probably right. We wanted to build a team fast and time was critical. Hence, we put a lot of priority on proven players with prem experience.

The Garrido situation is a case in point. Sylvinho was untried but ahead of him (he did play in the CL final) and Bridge was heavily relied on. When Bridge got injured we needed to give Sylvinho a chance. I think everyone agreed with that. Mancini was more likely to try him because he hadn't seen as much of him as Hughes. Now maybe Garrido won't end up featuring in Mancini's long term plans, who knows. A new manager also has more latitude without pissing players off for experimenting.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby BlueMoonAwoken » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:12 pm

too early for me.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Tactics and players

Postby One cap Whitey » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:59 pm

It will be interesting to see if the formation switches happen regularly under Mancini. Its worked a treat in both games so far but maybe they were planned beforehand rather than as a reaction to the opposition.

With a squad of good players that we've got it should be easier for our lot to adapt, especially if it is planned, than for the opposition to combat the changes mid game.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby Lev Bronstein » Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:16 am

Too early to say with any certainty. Given the injuries RM has made a good job of restricted choice, he seems to be quicker to make tactical changes and more intelligent with his substitutions.Plus being more positive about those on the fringe (Garrido, Petrov). However, it's very early days.

But, one big difference between RM and other managers is his positive attitude. That is, "We're 10 points behind Chelsea with a game in hand, we can win this". A big big difference btween him and other Prem managers in the same position, say Harry, Martin and the rest.

He's giving me goose bumps.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby Citizen of Oslo » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:41 am

Mancini has won two uncomplicated games against teams that Hughes had been expected to beat. Yes, the manner is different but that was always going to happen with a change of management. Let's not be too harsh on his abilities, Hughes brought us some damn good days. We've beaten Arsenal twice and Chelsea this season.


Sorry. But get the basics right, please.

Two games were not uncomplicated against Fulham or Birmingham. They were not uncomplicated against Burnley or Bolton. They were not uncomplicated against Wigan or Hull. And that is before metioning last season. Hughes never brought us any 'damn good days' as you state, but I suppose that depends on your standards. Joe Mercer gave us good times. Please don't confuse those two. We lost against the rags all three times we met them under Hughes. Please don't mix him with Joe Mercer or Tony Book and the good times. Hughes was fired partially because he didn't beat the teams 'he had been expected to beat'. To win games in the Premiership is 'never always going to happen with a change of management'. Now I'm drunk. Tomorrow I will be sober.

As I said, sorry. But please get the basics right.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby ronk » Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:32 am

Yeah, blah, blah, blah. Talk tactics. Of course we should have had a better record against poor opposition but so should everyone this year.

Last year with Hughes was a collection of great victories when it was working. We've never (in my lifetime) tonked teams as often as we did. It was fantastic so enjoy (when it was on on song).

After years of living on scraps we went into a situation where we believed we could win any game. That's good. Hughes won his first 4 games. i rate Mancini, I just don't want people to get completely ahead of themselves, especially to the point of throwing tactics and strategy out the window.

There's just no basis for pretending that everything we've done in these two games is purely down to innovations on the side of our new manager. To do so is to risk being drawn into allowing personal opinion of a coach to become more important than objectivity.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby Vhero » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:39 am

Good read and agreed with all of it :)
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby BobKowalski » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:17 pm

Whilst it is far too early to judge Mancini I love what I see so far and excited for the rest of the season under his stewardship. On the other hand Hughes was an idiot who surrounded himself with even bigger idiots so I am not sure there is much point in comparing the two. Mancini is a football manager and Hughes was masquerading as one. Personally I think City should sue Hughes for false pretences and injurious misrepresentation but I suspect the media will get all outraged again so probably best to let it lie :)
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby Ted Hughes » Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:21 pm

One was stocky with a large squarish head whilst the other is slimmer & a bit of a dandy.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby Mr Miyagi » Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:13 pm

One major difference so far is the focus on short passing and keeping the ball on the ground. In all interviews so far Manc has spoken about playing the game "the right way" and how this means playing on the floor. Not for a minute am I suggesting that Hughes was a long-ball merchant. He wasn't that bad. But the defenders seem to have instructions not to hoof the ball. We are trying to build from the back. Perhaps some of that relates to Kompany playing in the team, who is more comfortable with the ball at his feet. In some ways it reminds me of how we played under Sven.... possession of the ball is everything....

Another indication of this is Manc playing Tevez as the central striker. This means there is no point in playing the aerial ball. perhaps this is a deliberate decision to stop the long ball?
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby Nick » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:55 pm

I think its way too soon. Mancini hasnt signed anyone, so how do we know he wont stick with the players he buys ?! Also, the stuff about Ibra was just a throwaway comment to me.
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Re: Mancini vs Mark Hughes..Initial comparisons

Postby feedthegreek » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:24 pm

Mr Miyagi wrote:One major difference so far is the focus on short passing and keeping the ball on the ground. In all interviews so far Manc has spoken about playing the game "the right way" and how this means playing on the floor. Not for a minute am I suggesting that Hughes was a long-ball merchant. He wasn't that bad. But the defenders seem to have instructions not to hoof the ball. We are trying to build from the back. Perhaps some of that relates to Kompany playing in the team, who is more comfortable with the ball at his feet. In some ways it reminds me of how we played under Sven.... possession of the ball is everything....

Another indication of this is Manc playing Tevez as the central striker. This means there is no point in playing the aerial ball. perhaps this is a deliberate decision to stop the long ball?

that is a great point keeping the ball.
and playing it on the floor, where you said playing tevez as central striker it would be no use to lump it high,
tevez for me is showing the form that kept west ham up.
we lose to much possession just by hoofing it.
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