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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... ester-city


Patrick Vieira ruled out of Manchester City match with Blackburn

• Midfielder's City debut delayed by calf injury
• Premier League return likely in Everton game


Manchester City's Patrick Vieira picked up a knock in his final game for Internazionale.

Patrick Vieira's career at Manchester City has begun with a false start. The French midfielder has been ruled out of tomorrow's Premier League game against Blackburn Rovers because of injury.

Roberto Mancini's first signing is ­struggling with a calf problem, despite passing a medical examination from City's fitness staff on Thursday. His first game back in English football after a four-and-a-half-year absence is now likely to be at Everton on Saturday.

Vieira has been struggling with the injury since taking a kick in his last appearance for Internazionale, in a 1-0 victory over Chievo at the Stadio Marc Antonio Bentegodi last Wednesday. The former Arsenal midfielder was unable to train fully with the rest of his new team-mates today and was restricted to light work in the gymnasium. He has undergone a scan and City's doctors have told ­Mancini that it would be too risky to play him against Blackburn.

Vieira had been due to go straight into the team – probably at the expense of either Nigel de Jong or Gareth Barry – and possibly to take over as captain, given that Kolo Touré is at the Africa Cup of Nations with Ivory Coast and City's vice-captain, Stephen Ireland, is out of action with a hamstring strain.

Instead he has joined an already extensive injury list that includes Roque Santa Cruz, Joleon Lescott and Wayne Bridge and missed an ­opportunity to show that he can be as influential as he was when he was the ­fulcrum of Arsène Wenger's title-winning Arsenal sides.

Vieira was particularly keen to stress at his introductory press conference last ­Friday that he was not a player on the wane after two of his former Arsenal team-mates, Nigel Winterburn and Lee Dixon, expressed misgivings about the longevity of a man who won three Premier League titles while at Highbury. Dixon was ­particularly sceptical about whether a player who will turn 34 in June would be able to play every week.

"Patrick gets a few little niggles and hasn't got a classically fit footballer's body, where you know he's an athlete who can go on and on," he said. "He might look like he has that body, but he hasn't. He always needed a long time to recover after games, longer than some of the older lads."

Interesting that the writer of that picked out the two negative comments that I had heard about Vieira and yet ignored to include any of the positive comments on his signing.
I enjoy analysis but that ommited a sense of balance.

john68 wrote:Interesting that the writer of that picked out the two negative comments that I had heard about Vieira and yet ignored to include any of the positive comments on his signing.
I enjoy analysis but that ommited a sense of balance.

In fairness, the negative comments are quite relative to the story.

Winterburn and Dixon said that his body wouldn't be able to handle the demands of Premiership football and, low and behold, before he has even kicked a ball for us he's injured.

I don't think every journalist is out to get us, despite the tinfoil hat symdrome that has been developed around here. In this story the journalist used a relevant piece of information to go with the story. To be honest, throwing in superlatives about Vieira in a story about him missing his first game would be even more stupid.

john68 wrote:Interesting that the writer of that picked out the two negative comments that I had heard about Vieira and yet ignored to include any of the positive comments on his signing.
I enjoy analysis but that ommited a sense of balance.

What's new there then?

The bit I object to is "despite passing a medical examination from City's fitness staff on Thursday" - as if he shouldn't have passed his medical if he had a minor injury that would keep him out for a week!

I'm head-scratching over an article in the paper; do you lot understand that Vieira will play in favour of Barry?

I have to admit that I was surprised that Mancini thought he was needed in your squad, due to the presence of other DM's in it, but can scarcely believe that he's been brought to the club as Barry's replacement.

'Vieira had been expected to go straight into the team, probably at the expense of De Jong or Barry'.

I appreciate its paper talk, but, still....

walmai wrote:I'm head-scratching over an article in the paper; do you lot understand that Vieira will play in favour of Barry?

I have to admit that I was surprised that Mancini thought he was needed in your squad, due to the presence of other DM's in it, but can scarcely believe that he's been brought to the club as Barry's replacement.

'Vieira had been expected to go straight into the team, probably at the expense of De Jong or Barry'.

I appreciate its paper talk, but, still....

Your right fella i wouldn't drop either for Pat V.

No chance,he's got to earn the right in training.

walmai wrote:I'm head-scratching over an article in the paper; do you lot understand that Vieira will play in favour of Barry?

I have to admit that I was surprised that Mancini thought he was needed in your squad, due to the presence of other DM's in it, but can scarcely believe that he's been brought to the club as Barry's replacement.

'Vieira had been expected to go straight into the team, probably at the expense of De Jong or Barry'.

I appreciate its paper talk, but, still....

Nice to get a neutral's point of view on this signing - I got lambasted from certain quarters on here when I said pretty much the same thing. Folk thought it was a veiled attack on Mancini himself FFS!

Its pretty obvious that the move was not one that most would have opted for, yet you're not really allowed say that... hopefully he'll prove all us sceptics wrong and prove there's a reason why Gareth Barry or Nigel De Jong is left sitting on the bench but as much as I try to imagine it will be better to have one of those guys not playing, I just can't.

I have to say that I've not really followed his career in Italy (I can't be arsed watching Serie A).

I just remember his ego-bruising return to Arsenal (with Juve?)
Wasn't he tackled by Pires of all people and then left for dead on pace too?

A neutral - with a certain affinity for City - thinks that Mancini is paying back a favour.
An England fan (of sorts) hopes that Barry keeps up his match practice.

Anyone, surely, must question why someone that age is earning so much.

walmai wrote:I have to say that I've not really followed his career in Italy (I can't be arsed watching Serie A).

I just remember his ego-bruising return to Arsenal (with Juve?)
Wasn't he tackled by Pires of all people and then left for dead on pace too?

A neutral - with a certain affinity for City - thinks that Mancini is paying back a favour.
An England fan (of sorts) hopes that Barry keeps up his match practice.

Anyone, surely, must question why someone that age is earning so much.

Well it's up to him to prove that he is better.I think with injuries etc everyone should get game time. I believe Barry needs a groin op, so maybe this is why Vieira was brought in?

Either way, its good to have quality options, he can't be any slower than Barry anyway, so I don't really see the difference.

If Vieira was English would he be in Capello's squads? I think he would, as he picks Beckham all the time. Experience and big game mentality are sometimes needed for the balance of a squad. Didi was instrumental for us under Sven, when he had two youngsters in Ireland and Johnson, and two players new to the Premiership in Elano and Petrov in midfield. It's Patricks Leadership qualities that are why he is here, he will be here to direct and influence others whilst still remaining focussed.

Some players can't do that and can only concentrate on their own game. I can't think of a team that has not had a player of stature and experience that has won something? Every championship winning team whether national or domestic has always had an older statesman to guide and influence. We have Shay, but he hasn't had the experience of winning or playing at the very top with either Newcastle or Ireland.

walmai wrote:I have to say that I've not really followed his career in Italy (I can't be arsed watching Serie A).

I just remember his ego-bruising return to Arsenal (with Juve?)
Wasn't he tackled by Pires of all people and then left for dead on pace too?

A neutral - with a certain affinity for City - thinks that Mancini is paying back a favour.
An England fan (of sorts) hopes that Barry keeps up his match practice.

Anyone, surely, must question why someone that age is earning so much.

Isn't he 'only' on 70k a week? For a name as big as his, with all he's achieved that doesn't surprise me, in the crazy world of footy players' salaries.

I had, and still have my doubts about this signing in terms of who would make way, and whether this would improve the team. Barry and De Jong would have every right to feel aggrieved if they lose out to Vieira I reckon.

Btw is RSC defo still out? I was banking on him scoring tonight.

Hinch's 5 Fingered Salute wrote:

walmai wrote:I have to say that I've not really followed his career in Italy (I can't be arsed watching Serie A).

I just remember his ego-bruising return to Arsenal (with Juve?)
Wasn't he tackled by Pires of all people and then left for dead on pace too?

A neutral - with a certain affinity for City - thinks that Mancini is paying back a favour.
An England fan (of sorts) hopes that Barry keeps up his match practice.

Anyone, surely, must question why someone that age is earning so much.

Well it's up to him to prove that he is better.I think with injuries etc everyone should get game time. I believe Barry needs a groin op, so maybe this is why Vieira was brought in?

Either way, its good to have quality options, he can't be any slower than Barry anyway, so I don't really see the difference.

If Vieira was English would he be in Capello's squads? I think he would, as he picks Beckham all the time. Experience and big game mentality are sometimes needed for the balance of a squad. Didi was instrumental for us under Sven, when he had two youngsters in Ireland and Johnson, and two players new to the Premiership in Elano and Petrov in midfield. It's Patricks Leadership qualities that are why he is here, he will be here to direct and influence others whilst still remaining focussed.

Some players can't do that and can only concentrate on their own game. I can't think of a team that has not had a player of stature and experience that has won something? Every championship winning team whether national or domestic has always had an older statesman to guide and influence. We have Shay, but he hasn't had the experience of winning or playing at the very top with either Newcastle or Ireland.

I think you make some good points, although, in terms of Beckham, he's still in Capello's plans because he appears still capable of locating with a pass anybody from any range.

Midfield generals seem to be getting a shade younger every year and I can see the cleverer teams playing keep-ball-triangles around Vieira, so I don't know whether, if there were such a person, a 33 year old DM would make it into Capello's first team (the basis of my post) as opposed to the wider squad.

walmai wrote:

Hinch's 5 Fingered Salute wrote:

walmai wrote:I have to say that I've not really followed his career in Italy (I can't be arsed watching Serie A).

I just remember his ego-bruising return to Arsenal (with Juve?)
Wasn't he tackled by Pires of all people and then left for dead on pace too?

A neutral - with a certain affinity for City - thinks that Mancini is paying back a favour.
An England fan (of sorts) hopes that Barry keeps up his match practice.

Anyone, surely, must question why someone that age is earning so much.

Well it's up to him to prove that he is better.I think with injuries etc everyone should get game time. I believe Barry needs a groin op, so maybe this is why Vieira was brought in?

Either way, its good to have quality options, he can't be any slower than Barry anyway, so I don't really see the difference.

If Vieira was English would he be in Capello's squads? I think he would, as he picks Beckham all the time. Experience and big game mentality are sometimes needed for the balance of a squad. Didi was instrumental for us under Sven, when he had two youngsters in Ireland and Johnson, and two players new to the Premiership in Elano and Petrov in midfield. It's Patricks Leadership qualities that are why he is here, he will be here to direct and influence others whilst still remaining focussed.

Some players can't do that and can only concentrate on their own game. I can't think of a team that has not had a player of stature and experience that has won something? Every championship winning team whether national or domestic has always had an older statesman to guide and influence. We have Shay, but he hasn't had the experience of winning or playing at the very top with either Newcastle or Ireland.

I think you make some good points, although, in terms of Beckham, he's still in Capello's plans because he appears still capable of locating with a pass anybody from any range.

Midfield generals seem to be getting a shade younger every year and I can see the cleverer teams playing keep-ball-triangles around Vieira, so I don't know whether, if there were such a person, a 33 year old DM would make it into Capello's first team (the basis of my post) as opposed to the wider squad.

Interesting stuff. Imo having forced myself to watch a certain amount of Serie A ( which is like watching a West Brom v Ipswich game over & over & over again) although I've only seen bits of Vieira, it's clear the if he, or indeed 80% of the players in that league, were asked to do a job in the PL which involved a lot of movement they'd be up shit creek. However, a couple of years ago, we did get some decent early season performances from Didi in a purely protective role & Vieira is much much more mobile than him (Fred Eyre once commented that we'd applied for planning permission for Didi).

Some of the Italian teams seem to employ almost a 7-3 or even 7-1-2 formation where they keep 7 behind the ball for a fair amount of the game & let the front 3 get on with it with late runs from the others. In that formation with Barry & DeJong beside him, I could imagine Vieira thriving. Whether he could do 4-4-2 against a decent team though I wouldn't know.

Ted Hughes wrote:Some of the Italian teams seem to employ almost a 7-3 or even 7-1-2 formation where they keep 7 behind the ball for a fair amount of the game & let the front 3 get on with it with late runs from the others. In that formation with Barry & DeJong beside him, I could imagine Vieira thriving. Whether he could do 4-4-2 against a decent team though I wouldn't know.

While I agree on the first part of your post, I've been thinking for some minutes which sides you might have watched that emply a similar system, but unless you watched some of the very low table teams I can't come up with a side which would have seven players to defend and 3 to attack. Most italian teams from midtable upwards use a four men back line, some with attacking full backs and some not, then a 3 or 4 men midfield, depending on the team this could be with a diamond shape, or a flat line, or something like a triangular shape, with a DM, a deep-lying playmaker and a more box-to-box kind of player, and then depending on the midfield shape used there is a couple of strikers, or a lone strikers with two wingers, which can be more or less attacking depending on the situation but to me all of this doesn't translate in "seven behind the ball". Now if you said five behind the ball at all times, then I could agree ;)