Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Ted Hughes » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:20 pm

Mr Miyagi wrote:
CityFanFromRome wrote:
Mr Miyagi wrote:
I agree with you about being OTT, both in victory and defeat.

On the formation side, because wide players like Robinho and Petrov can't be relied on, I wonder if we should go for the Italian-style 4-3-1-2 on such occasions. Make teams play around us instead of through us.

If we do our full backs will need to be very focused and always at the top of their game especially against teams which are very strong on the wings, because there's only so much the midfield will be able to do to help them. But all in all it is a good idea, I just wonder who apart from Ireland could cover the position behind the strikers.


Besides Ireland there is SWP. I know he sometimes runs with his head down, but I think he is capable of playing the role. Also (don't laugh) I think De Jong could do it as well. He played that role for Ajax in the past.


Whatever we do, we have a weakness as a squad in the air which enables teams to put us under pressure without a great deal of tactical subtlety. Set pieces or straight balls down the middle cause us nightmares. Against lesser teams it looked as if we may have almost solved it with the new system but today looked as bad as ever & we were lucky not to concede more. Whatever tactical formations we play, until we fix that, we'll have days like this. Lescott will help but I recon we need more aerial strength for these kind of games rather than Zabba, Bridge, Garrido etc.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Douglas Higginbottom » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:22 pm

Dubaimancityfan wrote:
CityFanFromRome wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:100% certain the scum will have all the midfield battlers out there next week and we need to be ready for it.

We need to be ready, but also to be as fired up as Everton was tonight. And if Vieira were fit it might not have been bad, but sadly he won't be, not for the first leg.


Funny that you brought up Vieira. Does anyone still think we don't need him ??


Let's see him play and how that goes before we start hailing him as the key player. If he had played today instead of either Barry or NDJ the chances are it would have been no different. If he had played instead of Petrov with Barry and NDJ maybe it would have been different.But you can't often play with passengers and today we tried to and failed.

I agree with those who said our defence wasn't that bad. Sure as hell it wasn't good but when you don't hold the ball up front and you have no control in midfield the defence gets put under a lot of pressure and that's what happened today. A free kick and a penalty is all they scored. OK they hit the woodwork twice near the end but the defence wasnt that bad.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Mr Miyagi » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:23 pm

CityFanFromRome wrote:Good shout SWP, I thought about it after posting, although I see him better on the flank. De Jong, will he remember how it is done? I was thinking more along the lines of Tevez, with a big man and Bellamy up front.


Keep Tevez where he has been most effective I say. Dropping deep, rather than starting deep and running forward. He plays that way for the Argentina team (who have traditionally played a type of diamond for years). Based on current players I was thinking of this:

-----------Given--------------
Zabba---Richards----Kompany---Garrido
----De Jong----Viera---Barry---
---------------SWP-------------
-----Tevez-----Benjani-----
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Mr Miyagi » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:29 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:Whatever we do, we have a weakness as a squad in the air which enables teams to put us under pressure without a great deal of tactical subtlety.


Good points Ted. Here's my theory of what happened this week. I know for a fact that Moyes always comes personally to watch the last City home game before he plays against us. I know someone in hospitality who says he is always there watching with a notepad. He would have watched the Blackburn game. It was the Monday fixture. No one else playing. Just one hour drive up the road. Perfect scouting opportunity to watch how we cope with another team of plodders.

There was a ten minute spell where Blackburn caused us problems and scored. They did nothing other than bully us and put us under some pressure. Moyes realises, that's how to beat City. All we need to do is play like that for the whole game and they can't handle it.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Original Dub » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:35 pm

Yay! Back from the pub early... just wasn't in the mood for staying really, what will all those scum fans around me smirking and lapping up the fact that that was every bit as bad as our perfomance against spurs, which IMO had been our WORST of the season.

Its early days and I was impressed by the way Mancini addressed the problems during the first few games, albeit easier opposition. However, I fail to see why he persists on playing Petrov on the right, SWP on the left and has players switching every ten minutes. It confused the opposition (and me TBH) up until now. But against decent oppostion in just comes down to basically playing several players out of position and I hope he's learned from this tonight.

As was the case under Hughes, the players have to take responsibility for this shite I witnessed tonight... but the very people who said we were losing out on fourth are the ones now saying we should be optomistic...

I agree by the way and I am optomistic, but no more optomistic than I was after Hughes' first four games with the same squad.

Perspective anyone? :)

Fuck it, hopefully we'll do the scum and put this horrible perfomance behind us.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Ted Hughes » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:36 pm

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
Dubaimancityfan wrote:
CityFanFromRome wrote:
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:100% certain the scum will have all the midfield battlers out there next week and we need to be ready for it.

We need to be ready, but also to be as fired up as Everton was tonight. And if Vieira were fit it might not have been bad, but sadly he won't be, not for the first leg.


Funny that you brought up Vieira. Does anyone still think we don't need him ??


Let's see him play and how that goes before we start hailing him as the key player. If he had played today instead of either Barry or NDJ the chances are it would have been no different. If he had played instead of Petrov with Barry and NDJ maybe it would have been different.But you can't often play with passengers and today we tried to and failed.

I agree with those who said our defence wasn't that bad. Sure as hell it wasn't good but when you don't hold the ball up front and you have no control in midfield the defence gets put under a lot of pressure and that's what happened today. A free kick and a penalty is all they scored. OK they hit the woodwork twice near the end but the defence wasnt that bad.


We were opened up very easily by basic football though. Imo Vieira wouldn't have made the slightest difference tonight in that formation. However, Vieira, Dejong AND Barry especially with RSC up front, may have been a totally different matter. I think that may be what Mancini have had in mind for these kind of games.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby BlueMoonAwoken » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:42 pm

The race for fourth or third is not over in in a million miles!

It all depends on whether macini can bring in the players to make us that little bit stronger or does well with the current crop of players. But i think we have a huge chance to finish in the top 4 , all this talk of the title is good for confidence of the players but realistically its too far ahead of us but if you aim for the stars you might reach the blue moon.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby irblinx » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:44 pm

KinkyKinkladze wrote:We were just awful weren't we? The lack of a performance from Barry and De Jong did it more than anything. How can Barry be so shit now? He was great up until he saw his arse at Villa Park, now he looks ready to be put down. De Jong, well maybe it was just one of them games. He's a battler, not a ball player, and with Barry not taking up that role today, you got the feeling De Jong had too much on his plate. Agree entirely with NQDP, Vieira looks like he's here to correct that situation. The amount of times we tried playing the ball out from the back, but our back four only had each other to play it to or hump it forward was ridiculous.

For me, Micah and Garrido were very good today, let down by Kompany's indecision and Zabaleta playing like a Championship player. The way Zabs let Bilyeletdinov run past him and cross for Cahill's crossbar header reminded me of Micah's lacklustre performances at RB last year.

Today wasn't a game for Bellamy. We should've had Petrov on the left, just for balance. Before their first goal, Petrov had numerous chances to get past their left back, but because he's got no right foot, he was dragging it back inside and killing what little opportunities we had to get behind their defence. Bellamy worked hard, but when you're surrounded by Barry and Robinho doing fuck all, his impact was always going to be marginal. Still one of our brightest players though. Probably should've had Petrov and Bellamy on their natural flanks, or even just have Sweep on from the start. Maybe Mancini didn't want to rush him straight in after his knock.

Tevez worked tirelessly as usual but he couldn't do fucking anything with no midfield to supply him and Robinho being useless. Benjani was excellent for his cameo, he's earnt himself some brownie points with Mancini, surely. Shame for RSC. We shouldn't be having a go at him, whenever he has been able to play, his class has been obvious. And it should be noticable that we missed him dreadfully when he went off.

Which brings me on to Robinho. I know he wasn't playing in his natural position, but that really isn't an excuse. Mancini's reasoning was entirely right for me, with bringing him on instead of Benji. We know Benji will work hard no matter what. Robinho is supposed to be a big player, so get on their and fucking prove it. His skill and ability to unlock doors is reason enough to bring him on, hoping he could provide a link between midfield and Tevez. Unfortunately, he showed himself up to be a liability. I half think Mancini had that in mind all along - get on there and show me you're worth it otherwise you're out the door mate. And look what happened, the ignimony of subbing off a sub. Straight down the tunnel and not seen of again for the rest of the game. Mancini played his cards with Robbie and he played them fucking well.

Got to be honest, despite this evening's dissapointment, I fell in love with Mancini for doing that.

All in all, we were beaten by a better side and we got to see that there are one or two big name players who aren't up to it. Bizarrely, I saw positives from this game, in the shape of recognising our frailties and I think it'll stand Mancini and the team good for the future. We were put to the sword by a good Everton team and we were deservedly beaten.

Still shouldn't have been a penalty though. Foul no doubt, but it started outside the box. But that's a minor point really, we deserved what we got.

I don't feel nearly as depressed as I did after the Spuds game though.


Absolutely spot on what my thoughts were other than not quite buying into the Robinho was the worst player on the pitch stick that the media love to perpetuate, he was too easily pushed of by Afroman but no worse than three quarters of the team, and the idea of leaving Petrov on. Zabaletta was shocking, De Jong worse (had by far his worst game for us), Barry ineffectual, Kompany poor, Petrov clueless and Bellamy wasteful.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Nick » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:59 pm

I we were going to get beat. The thing that pissed me off about mancini is how he seemed like the thought we were better than we were, saying we dont need signings and how we can finish 4th with players like benjani playing. At least hes had a reality check now and knows how shite we can be. This was exactly like Hughes Spurs drubbing. We just have no ideas against decent teams away from home. I was concerned that IMO we havent looked ''all that'' going forward in the other games; stoke, wolves etc. Yes we scored quite a few goals but blackburn were fucking woeful.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby KinkyKinkladze » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:04 pm

Nick wrote:I we were going to get beat. The thing that pissed me off about mancini is how he seemed like the thought we were better than we were, saying we dont need signings and how we can finish 4th with players like benjani playing. At least hes had a reality check now and knows how shite we can be. This was exactly like Hughes Spurs drubbing. We just have no ideas against decent teams away from home. I was concerned that IMO we havent looked ''all that'' going forward in the other games; stoke, wolves etc. Yes we scored quite a few goals but blackburn were fucking woeful.


I prefer Mancini coming out and saying we're great as we are rather than him telling the world and reminding his squad about our weaknesses.

Something I never understood about the anti-Hughes brigade was how after a bad defeat, they'd slag him off for deflecting blame away from his players and instead blaming refs or something. I know it'd be nice to be a straight up bastard with overpaid footballers and tell them how shit they really are, but life doesn't work like that does it?

Being confident breeds good morale. It's something we need to get used to at City instead of being a bunch of miserable fuckers. It's not through coincidence that bacon face calls our place the temple of doom.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Original Dub » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:10 pm

Nick wrote:I we were going to get beat. The thing that pissed me off about mancini is how he seemed like the thought we were better than we were, saying we dont need signings and how we can finish 4th with players like benjani playing. At least hes had a reality check now and knows how shite we can be. This was exactly like Hughes Spurs drubbing. We just have no ideas against decent teams away from home. I was concerned that IMO we havent looked ''all that'' going forward in the other games; stoke, wolves etc. Yes we scored quite a few goals but blackburn were fucking woeful.


I didn't think Benjani was near the worst player on the pitch mate and his contribution when called upon so far does not deserve scrutiny IMO.

I do agree that it was exactly like the Spurs game. No difference at all whatsoever IMO. I also agree that Blackburn were absolutely shambolic.

However, it was over-cockiness on the part of the whole team, Mancini included and when a new guy comes in its only natural to push the cockiness until you cross the line. That's how you find out where the line is!

Well Bobby, you know where the line is now, so please please please don't cross it again on Tuesday!
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Original Dub » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:12 pm

.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby StrikeAnywhere » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:37 pm

certainly when teams us we struggle (ie today, spurs spring to mind). however im not in agreement with the fact that signings are needed. Benjani did a job when he came on however he is not a game changer. circumstances (african cup) and injuries have hurt our squad strength yes but the current players we have are all good enough when at their best to produce top displays. it is finding that right style/formation/motivation to get them to play at their best which is key for Mancini.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby dazby » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:51 pm

xavi6 wrote:
dazby wrote:That does it, you can stick your ten thousand posts up your arses. Mancini OUT, Everton OUT. Dazby OUT

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Can I take my vote back for the fan to send over to the derby?

Soft Daz


And of course, Murphys Law kicks in. My daughter woke up two hours earlier than usual this morning as she has wet the bed for the second time ever.

Me oh so tired......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

How'd the game go? (Don't answer that, I've had it taped for me.)
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Dunne's Half-Time Pint » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:57 pm

dazby wrote:
xavi6 wrote:
dazby wrote:That does it, you can stick your ten thousand posts up your arses. Mancini OUT, Everton OUT. Dazby OUT

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Can I take my vote back for the fan to send over to the derby?

Soft Daz


And of course, Murphys Law kicks in. My daughter woke up two hours earlier than usual this morning as she has wet the bed for the second time ever.

Me oh so tired......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

How'd the game go? (Don't answer that, I've had it taped for me.)


see my earlier post "re: not worth it"
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby CityFanFromRome » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:49 pm

I think Mancini's biggest mistake has been not to smell the atmosphere Moyes was creating in the previous days. For sure Moyes took note of how Blackburn put us under pressure for a part of the game on Monday but his best achievement has been to motivate all his players like they were playing a CL final, while we apprached the game as just one another game in the league. They were out for blood and we weren't, it's as simple as that, but it makes all the difference in the world to the final outcome.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Goaters 103 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:56 pm

Not the team I would have selected - Bellers now likely can't start on Tuesday, Petrov not the man for what was always going to be a physical game - and a totally wretched performance.

I'm hoping they got that out of the way befroe Tuesday, as that whole showing needs putting in the bin. Start afresh on tomorrow and a win on Tuesday will lead to forgiveness all around.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Nick » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:57 pm

But on the topic of the injured players, I think Ade is the last player to expect big changes from. If we remember before his little injury, he was our worst players, getting more stick than robinho. He may well have got hughes sacked; and we started playing better as a team when he dropped him for santa. Santa is now injured and Ade is now messed up. We need a target man thats quality. The rest of the injuries are defenders. With them back, at best, today would have been 0-0. Ireland is another strange one because he too has been wank for some time.

SWP is the only guy I think we could do with ASAP.
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Dubaimancityfan » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:58 am

Final thoughts on the match after a (not too good) night's sleep. I think Bobby Mac's plans were disrupted by the early injury to
Rocky but he did not help himself and the team by bringing on Robbie instead of Benji.
That clearly did not work and he had to wait until well into the 2nd half to sub Robbie for, I guess, face saving reasons as Robbie shud have been subbed at half time (technically speaking, Robbie played from the 5th minute so he can't really be considerd a sub !).
Add to the above that Barry and NDJ had probably their worst matches since joining us, especially Nigel, Tevez looked uncomfortable the whole match (he looked like he pulled something), Bellers had an off day and on top of it all 2 dubious refereeing decisions and the match results looks to be very logical.
There was a lot of talk about Petrov being ineffective, but we have to remeber that he's been playing on the right where he is not very comfortable. He wud have been much more effective if he was playing in his natural left position and the RM could have been been filled by either Bellers or Vlad.
I can't blame RM too much except for the Robbie decision and possibly starting RSC who was coming back from an injury (and yes, playing Petrov on the right).
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Re: Everton Vs Manchester City official match thread

Postby Alex Sapphire » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:18 am

Starting with Roque carrying an injury: fail
Changing the shape of the team after 9 minutes: fail
Playing petrov on the right (when its not a surprise any more): fail
Not strengthening midfield when we were clearly getting overrun: fail
Using his third and final substitute with half an hour of a physical game to go: fail
Excusing the performance by saying "I'm not a miracle worker" (it needs a miracle to beat Everton??): fail
That's the manager

Team: shoddy all over the park. Chaotic in defense and taking a breather in attack (they've carried the team these last few weeks). Barry and de Jong looking over their shoulders (after the landing of Pat)?

Credit to: Shay for never stopping stopping. Sweep bellamy and Bellers for the effort. Benji for taking it on the chin.

Away fans: sounded marvellous on my stream. If it felt like a cup final that was prolly more to do with the wall of Sky Blue noise.
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