Second Half tactics

[CityFanFromRome]

I know it may be better to enjoy the win at the moment but I just wanted to point out how we switched to a diamond 4-4-2 in the second half, with SWP behind the strikers, and how I thought it worked quite well until the last 15 minutes when we were clearly trying to hold onto the lead, plus we were also quite tired.

What do you think of it? I think Ireland could shine in that kind of formation, played in SWP's position, but then, assuming De Jong sits in front of the defence, the other two spots in central midfield will be u for grabs for Barry, Zabaleta, Vieira, and possibly SWP to start from there and maybe interchange positions with Stevie during the match, and make runs from the middle to the flank when he finds space to give us a bit of width.

[s1ty m]

i am not slagging bobby, how could anyone, but ireland for sweep was a begging-to-be-made move after we got the 2nd. i think 3-1 or who knows what else was there for the taking. sitting back and allowing them to pick through us was mad. mancini will get it right at the swamp, tactics seem to be his thing. our injuries and missing players is hurting us more than any side in the premier league right now.

anyone, we won!

[Wonderwall]

I enjoyed the quick change when he saw it wasn't working and he changed things for the better. He didnt cut out the valencia threat which was really annoying as everyone could see it. I also hated the fact that he sat back on the 18 yard line from 80 mins onwards. We will get ripped apart at OT with the same tactics.

IMO Petrov being brought on for bellers, who was knackered would have given utd a real problem as his pace would have murdered them as they pressed us for the equaliser.

[s1ty m]

I enjoyed the quick change when he saw it wasn't working and he changed things for the better. He didnt cut out the valencia threat which was really annoying as everyone could see it. I also hated the fact that he sat back on the 18 yard line from 80 mins onwards. We will get ripped apart at OT with the same tactics.

IMO Petrov being brought on for bellers, who was knackered would have given utd a real problem as his pace would have murdered them as they pressed us for the equaliser.

thing is, you cannot cut out all the threats, the rags have a lot of weapons. we have no other viable left back and we are struggling to cobble together a defence. after all, noone in the back 4 is in their regular slot. though vinny must be first pick there now.

i thought our approach in the last 20 was suicidal.

and benjani should have just sprinted about like a madman, he was fresh against tired legs. but did he break sweat?

[Wonderwall]

I enjoyed the quick change when he saw it wasn't working and he changed things for the better. He didnt cut out the valencia threat which was really annoying as everyone could see it. I also hated the fact that he sat back on the 18 yard line from 80 mins onwards. We will get ripped apart at OT with the same tactics.

IMO Petrov being brought on for bellers, who was knackered would have given utd a real problem as his pace would have murdered them as they pressed us for the equaliser.

thing is, you cannot cut out all the threats, the rags have a lot of weapons. we have no other viable left back and we are struggling to cobble together a defence. after all, noone in the back 4 is in their regular slot. though vinny must be first pick there now.

i thought our approach in the last 20 was suicidal.

and benjani should have just sprinted about like a madman, he was fresh against tired legs. but did he break sweat?

he was saving himself for the 30 mins of fergie time

[JB]

I enjoyed the quick change when he saw it wasn't working and he changed things for the better. He didnt cut out the valencia threat which was really annoying as everyone could see it. I also hated the fact that he sat back on the 18 yard line from 80 mins onwards. We will get ripped apart at OT with the same tactics.

IMO Petrov being brought on for bellers, who was knackered would have given utd a real problem as his pace would have murdered them as they pressed us for the equaliser.

I do get your thinking, but agree with keeping Bellers on for his defensive qualities rather than Rigsby's.

[carl_feedthegoat]

I enjoyed the quick change when he saw it wasn't working and he changed things for the better. He didnt cut out the valencia threat which was really annoying as everyone could see it. I also hated the fact that he sat back on the 18 yard line from 80 mins onwards. We will get ripped apart at OT with the same tactics.

IMO Petrov being brought on for bellers, who was knackered would have given utd a real problem as his pace would have murdered them as they pressed us for the equaliser.

thing is, you cannot cut out all the threats, the rags have a lot of weapons. we have no other viable left back and we are struggling to cobble together a defence. after all, noone in the back 4 is in their regular slot. though vinny must be first pick there now.

i thought our approach in the last 20 was suicidal.

and benjani should have just sprinted about like a madman, he was fresh against tired legs. but did he break sweat?

he was saving himself for the 30 mins of fergie time

JOKES ASIDE..BENJANI WAS A WASTE OF SPACE IN THE TIME HE WAS ON THE FIELD, TEVEZ WOULD HAVE DONE A BELLERS AND WORKED HIS SOCKS OFF TILL THE VERY END SO I DONT KN OW WHY WE TOOK HIM OFF. BENJANI DID SWEET FUCKALL AS USUAL......BUT I AT LEAST EXPECTED HIM TO RUN HIMSELF TO DEATH FOR THE TIME HE WAS ON THE FIELD.

ANYWAY - I RECKON THATS THE LAST WE WILL SEE OF BENJANI.....I RECKON ADE WILL BE READY FOR NEXT WEEK.

[Wonderwall]

I enjoyed the quick change when he saw it wasn't working and he changed things for the better. He didnt cut out the valencia threat which was really annoying as everyone could see it. I also hated the fact that he sat back on the 18 yard line from 80 mins onwards. We will get ripped apart at OT with the same tactics.

IMO Petrov being brought on for bellers, who was knackered would have given utd a real problem as his pace would have murdered them as they pressed us for the equaliser.

I do get your thinking, but agree with keeping Bellers on for his defensive qualities rather than Rigsby's.

mancini is paid to make those decisions and it paid off..... just! Next time lets hope he uses attack as a form of defence as if we keep things status quo, they are going to have to commit players forward and if we leave a quick man up top, we can put the tie to bed.

[JB]

I enjoyed the quick change when he saw it wasn't working and he changed things for the better. He didnt cut out the valencia threat which was really annoying as everyone could see it. I also hated the fact that he sat back on the 18 yard line from 80 mins onwards. We will get ripped apart at OT with the same tactics.

IMO Petrov being brought on for bellers, who was knackered would have given utd a real problem as his pace would have murdered them as they pressed us for the equaliser.

I do get your thinking, but agree with keeping Bellers on for his defensive qualities rather than Rigsby's.

mancini is paid to make those decisions and it paid off..... just! Next time lets hope he uses attack as a form of defence as if we keep things status quo, they are going to have to commit players forward and if we leave a quick man up top, we can put the tie to bed.

You're not wrong, very edgy stuff. I don't think we're much good at the catanaccio, or whatever it's called. I would have liked us to keep possession further up the pitch and put them under a bit of pressure instead of inviting them on to us.

[Wonderwall]

I enjoyed the quick change when he saw it wasn't working and he changed things for the better. He didnt cut out the valencia threat which was really annoying as everyone could see it. I also hated the fact that he sat back on the 18 yard line from 80 mins onwards. We will get ripped apart at OT with the same tactics.

IMO Petrov being brought on for bellers, who was knackered would have given utd a real problem as his pace would have murdered them as they pressed us for the equaliser.

I do get your thinking, but agree with keeping Bellers on for his defensive qualities rather than Rigsby's.

mancini is paid to make those decisions and it paid off..... just! Next time lets hope he uses attack as a form of defence as if we keep things status quo, they are going to have to commit players forward and if we leave a quick man up top, we can put the tie to bed.

You're not wrong, very edgy stuff. I don't think we're much good at the catanaccio, or whatever it's called. I would have liked us to keep possession further up the pitch and put them under a bit of pressure instead of inviting them on to us.

I think that was what Benjani was supposed to do, but when he doesnt get the ball passed to him and there is 40 yards between him and the midfield, we cannot really give him too much shit.

[CityFanFromRome]

I definitely agree that sitting back at the end was very risky, and that Valencia could have been controlled better, but I think him being dangerous was more due to us sitting back than anything else, he was barely noticeable until we started defending the lead, bar their first goal which he set up.

I also agree that Ireland would have been better behind the strikers than SWP, as I also said in my OP, but what I wanted to know was what you thought of the diamond formation we used, if you think we could pull it off effectively once everyone is back, and how would you select the team for it, as I feel we might start to see it more frequently, it was after all one of Mancio's preferred systems at Inter, and it's not new to him to use a winger as man behind the strikers either, at Inter he used Figo there, so another right winger just like SWP, or Stankovic, who is no winger but can anyway play on both flanks if needed.

[Somerset Blue]

A co-incidence, maybe, but we started sitting back when Tevez came off.

[Wonderwall]

I definitely agree that sitting back at the end was very risky, and that Valencia could have been controlled better, but I think him being dangerous was more due to us sitting back than anything else, he was barely noticeable until we started defending the lead, bar their first goal which he set up.

Valencia was given room from the first few minutes, if you manage to see the game again have a look. I thought Mancini would have cut that supply line and he didnt, which surprised me. I would have asked Garrido to push 10 yards to the left to ensure Valencia didnt get the run on him but he would have at least had a chance of the 50/50 tackles. We allowed valencia to waltz all over our left hand side and it was very hit and miss as we have Zabba there one minute and the next he played right mid and SWP was pushed into the centre!

It worked though, so well done Mancini and thank you.

[JonnyAsh]

Agree with most of what has been said, not sure why Ireland wasn't brought on for either Tevez or SWP, where attack would have been the best kind of defence. We had no outlet, and whilst Benjani can at least hold the ball up, there was no one within yards to lay it off to.
In the end it worked, but we lost the initiative, and although it may have been a brave decision, a 3-1 scoreline would have made life much more comfortable. I can't believe Tevez was tired out, and he would have continued to be the forward outlet who would have given the back breathing space, as well as providing his own threat.
Boyata / Ned was also a strange one, unless Mancini intended to give up so much ground, by his subs, and thought ned would provide better defensive qualities. Good job he was there on the goal line.
God help us, if we try and defend a lead from the start at the Swamp, we are much better going forwards, and if we had a little more ambition, this tie would be over by now

[blues-clues]

would have liked to see us go for the kill but generally happy with the result.

Benjani did not do what was required, he was only on for a few minutes he should have killed himself flat out for that time. Tevez did more in any ten minute period than Benjani did in his ten when he knew that was all he would have to do. Disappointed in him while almost everyone else put in a full shift.

[JB]

I definitely agree that sitting back at the end was very risky, and that Valencia could have been controlled better, but I think him being dangerous was more due to us sitting back than anything else, he was barely noticeable until we started defending the lead, bar their first goal which he set up.

Valencia was given room from the first few minutes, if you manage to see the game again have a look. I thought Mancini would have cut that supply line and he didnt, which surprised me. I would have asked Garrido to push 10 yards to the left to ensure Valencia didnt get the run on him but he would have at least had a chance of the 50/50 tackles. We allowed valencia to waltz all over our left hand side and it was very hit and miss as we have Zabba there one minute and the next he played right mid and SWP was pushed into the centre!

It worked though, so well done Mancini and thank you.

We gave them way too much time on the ball in the first half . They were able to pick Valencia out way too easily from the back and put us under pressure quickly. Unfortuantely, it cost us a valuable goal I hope doesn't bite on the bum.

[Grob]

At the end of the day Mancini tinkered a bit and he found a way for us to win. Im a great believer in giving the oppostion different looks during a game. If the players get used to playing multiple systems in training, we can slide into loads of different formations and change the patterns of play untill we find successfull ones.

I can understand him dropping back into a 5 to sure things up after the non descript start. Should have done that on saturday. We grew in confidence from that moment.

Second have tactics were spot on when we went to 4411. SWP and Craig did alot of good work off Tevez. Benjani though, oh dear.

[ant london]

I know it may be better to enjoy the win at the moment but I just wanted to point out how we switched to a diamond 4-4-2 in the second half, with SWP behind the strikers, and how I thought it worked quite well until the last 15 minutes when we were clearly trying to hold onto the lead, plus we were also quite tired.

What do you think of it? I think Ireland could shine in that kind of formation, played in SWP's position, but then, assuming De Jong sits in front of the defence, the other two spots in central midfield will be u for grabs for Barry, Zabaleta, Vieira, and possibly SWP to start from there and maybe interchange positions with Stevie during the match, and make runs from the middle to the flank when he finds space to give us a bit of width.

Agree with your comments there mate, I mentioned him using the diamond when we were discussing Mathieu Flamini yesterday and for me it has many attractions...not least the fact that it allows us to use several players in roles which I think are most "natural" to them.

At the base of the diamond it is well suited to De Jong or Vieira.

Barry is an obvious choice for the left but Zabaleta could do a job as showed yesterday, as could Garrido or Sylvinho at a push

Right hand side, well, Zabba, Vieira, Flamini, Kompany, SWP, Bellamy even could play there.

But it's the tip of the diamond where the appeal really lies as we have an embarrassment of riches who could thrive there; Stephen Ireland however is its real appeal. I cannot wait to see him used in that role but Robinho could play there, as could Tevez, Bellamy, SWP....even Petrov if you ask me.

How we use our resources in situations like the last 15 mins so as to stifle the opposition and still remain dangerous is my main unanswered question but, as Grob says, it's nice to see that some tactical/formational fluidity looks to be being nurtured by Mancini. That is a big (positive) difference in him vs MH thus far.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

When asked about what is a manager's most important attribute didn't Mancini say being lucky! Well so far I think he has had his fair share of that and long may it continue.The result last night was all that mattered and we got as much as we could expect and more with that performance

I agree I like the fact that he changes the sytsem at times but I am not so sure I agree with what worked and what didn't.A worry for me is that he so far ( to my memory anyway) he hasn't started with a system that hasn't needed to be changed.The idea that we now know Zabaletta can play left side midfield is rather worrying as he was absolutely lost.

I also think SWP was fairly lost behind the front man.It has been tried before and he just doesnt see the oicture fully here. Of course he can do thge odd good thing as he is a top player but he hasnt the skill and vision to do that job .

Mancini set his stall out yesterday to not lose and the first 30 minutes were very worrying.We got the stroke of good fortune even though it was a pen all day long for me and played well for a while to get ahead. I think we need to be brave with the next game and get it right from the start. I hope and expect a 4.5.1 formation and if we have the right players fit it's Wembley time.

[Beeks]

I thought in the latter part of the second half we were quite negative which allowed the rags to push on

We sat back and let them come at us...we were defending far too deep...don't know if this is an italian thing but I don't like it