cheating or honesty?

[Wonderwall]

I watched the Milan game yesterday and saw Maicon do a 10/10 theatrical dive to get a freekick outside the box which inter scored from and I instantly disliked the cheating bastard.

I also watched the Stoke v Arsenal game yesterday and saw Fuller stay on his feet when he was fouled inside the box. The foul put him off balance and he fluffed his chance, if he would have gone down it was a definite penalty. I instantly admired his honesty (for want of a better word) in trying to stay on his feet.

I hate divers and cheaters in football, its probably the thing I hate most about the game. However, If that was City I would have wanted fuller to hit the deck, and if he did I would not have seen it as cheating as he was fouled?

Its a fine line...... and one that I have seen tranny boy walk all his career, if he is touch he hits the deck and gets a freekick. I always thought football was a contact sport?!!!

[MaineRoadMemories]

Touching on the point regarding penalties. I can never understand when a player is getting pulled, dragged or kicked at in the box (basically fouled) but he manages to get some sort of shot away that a penalty is hardly ever awarded.

9/10 times the attacker is fouled to the point where he can't shoot straight. Does the ref play the advantage rule?

Also when a player is shooting in the box and gets his shot away but is then poleaxed by a defender trying to make a last ditch block. Pens are never awarded for this either but outside of the box its a possible yellow or red card.

In reference to the title. Fans at the ground don't like pansy's much at City and we have always given our own players a rough time for going down so easily. Bianchi and Samaras spring to mind. Would be interesting to see how we'd react if we had Drogba and his antics though.

Conversely, fans in the ground seemed to very much like the "tactical fall". Everyone was very impressed with the way in which Didi could get a freekick at any time he wanted to and ease pressure out of the game.

[Im_Spartacus]

I watched the Milan game yesterday and saw Maicon do a 10/10 theatrical dive to get a freekick outside the box which inter scored from and I instantly disliked the cheating bastard.

I also watched the Stoke v Arsenal game yesterday and saw Fuller stay on his feet when he was fouled inside the box. The foul put him off balance and he fluffed his chance, if he would have gone down it was a definite penalty. I instantly admired his honesty (for want of a better word) in trying to stay on his feet.

I hate divers and cheaters in football, its probably the thing I hate most about the game. However, If that was City I would have wanted fuller to hit the deck, and if he did I would not have seen it as cheating as he was fouled?

Its a fine line...... and one that I have seen tranny boy walk all his career, if he is touch he hits the deck and gets a freekick. I always thought football was a contact sport?!!!

Its all about the oft quoted "If you're touched when running at high speed it knocks you off balance".

The more football I see, the more I am coming round to the opinion that seeing as your opposition will be almost certain to do it given the chance, you have to create your own level playing field, because the referee certainly wont do that 9 times out of 10 by booking the player for going down on minimal/no contact. Its despicable, but its something we are having to start to accept

I dont see this as cheating any more, because referees have let it get out of hand it has become common place and either needs stamping out or it becomes a legitimate part of the game that if you are touched it is a penalty.

[Dazzacity]

I cant stand blatant diving, i.e a player goin down when no contact was made. I also hate it when players get a slight knock and then roll around like they have been shot. This is one reason why I cant stand that tosser Drogba. I know many Chelsea fans that find him embarrassing at times. But saying that, I kind of find it ok if a player goes to the deck to swing the refs decision providing it was a fail in the first place. I think,at times, its the only way to persuade the ref to blow for a fail, i.e the Fuller pen claim.

[Mase]

If Tevez goes down in the 90th min on Wednesday to earn us a pen and we end up winning 1-0 I wouldn't give two hoots!

[Rag_hater]

I watched the Milan game yesterday and saw Maicon do a 10/10 theatrical dive to get a freekick outside the box which inter scored from and I instantly disliked the cheating bastard.

I also watched the Stoke v Arsenal game yesterday and saw Fuller stay on his feet when he was fouled inside the box. The foul put him off balance and he fluffed his chance, if he would have gone down it was a definite penalty. I instantly admired his honesty (for want of a better word) in trying to stay on his feet.

I hate divers and cheaters in football, its probably the thing I hate most about the game. However, If that was City I would have wanted fuller to hit the deck, and if he did I would not have seen it as cheating as he was fouled?

Its a fine line...... and one that I have seen tranny boy walk all his career, if he is touch he hits the deck and gets a freekick. I always thought football was a contact sport?!!!

I dug up a rule a few months ago from the FIFA rulebook which explained how contact was illegal,the only exception being a fair shoulder charge.So I dont think football is a contact sport therefore the minimum contact or the implication of contact can be punished with a free kick or pen if in the box.
Persoonally I dont find diving as offensive as some people and see it as part of the game ,that, has always been there and always will be.When players get away with it I have come to accept it.
And next time someone comes near Micah and he gets chance watch him.

[Im_Spartacus]

I cant stand blatant diving, i.e a player goin down when no contact was made. I also hate it when players get a slight knock and then roll around like they have been shot. This is one reason why I cant stand that tosser Drogba. I know many Chelsea fans that find him embarrassing at times. But saying that, I kind of find it ok if a player goes to the deck to swing the refs decision providing it was a fail in the first place. I think,at times, its the only way to persuade the ref to blow for a fail, i.e the Fuller pen claim.

Boils down to the ref though doesnt it, whether the player is blatently diving or not. There is a split second decision to make when you have been fouled, and the thought process of forwards seems to have evolved to this now, regardless of whether it is a foul or not:

Can I get a shot in - yes
Would I have a better chance of scoring from a penalty - yes
Will the referee believe me - probably not
I'll throw myself on the floor then and make it look dramatic, worst I'll get is a booking.

It wouldnt happen if we had a "dubious fouls" panel adjudging on those who BLATENTLY cheat. every Monday, and dishing out a mandatory 2 match ban. It would also give those who take a dramatic swan dive after being fouled second thoughts if they knew they could be held accountable.

[CityFanFromRome]

While I can't stand those who dive when no contact has happened, imho a forward who gets fouled into the box should fall, end of, unless he's an inch away from the line so the goal is "guaranteed". Why? Because he was fouled, so to try shooting in precarious balance can only lead to him missing the chance, and the ref not giving the penalty because he has shot.

[Im_Spartacus]

While I can't stand those who dive when no contact has happened, imho a forward who gets fouled into the box should fall, end of, unless he's an inch away from the line so the goal is "guaranteed". Why? Because he was fouled, so to try shooting in precarious balance can only lead to him missing the chance, and the ref not giving the penalty because he has shot.

I agree with you, but your very response confirms the crux of the problem. If he was fouled, its the referee's responsibility to give it. There should be no need to fuck about doing a triple salko with pike

The fact that players now hurl themselves to the ground, is entirely down to poor indecisive refereeing which has caused players and fans to start to take the view that overdramatising a situation is the only way to guarantee a decision.

It says more about the referees than about the players/fans who are now coming to accept this as just being part of the game

[CityFanFromRome]

While I can't stand those who dive when no contact has happened, imho a forward who gets fouled into the box should fall, end of, unless he's an inch away from the line so the goal is "guaranteed". Why? Because he was fouled, so to try shooting in precarious balance can only lead to him missing the chance, and the ref not giving the penalty because he has shot.

I agree with you, but your very response confirms the crux of the problem. If he was fouled, its the referee's responsibility to give it. There should be no need to fuck about doing a triple salko with pike

The fact that players now hurl themselves to the ground, is entirely down to poor indecisive refereeing which has caused players and fans to start to take the view that overdramatising a situation is the only way to guarantee a decision.

It says more about the referees than about the players/fans who are now coming to accept this as just being part of the game

I know where you're coming from and I agree, although overdramatising the foul could also lead to the ref giving the player a yellow for diving, so imho it's not really a matter of overdramatising, it is a matter of knowing you have been fouled, and not try with all your might to stay on your feet, like some players instead do, but just go with the flow.

But this aside, I think the problem in referees not giving penalties when they should lies in the "abuse" they get when they make a wrong call, so they become afraid of making a mistake, and unless the foul is blatant, they don't award the penalty.

One of the best referees I've ever seen, Collina, was not afraid of making a mistake. I think he was the only referee in the world who would award two penalties to the away team in the space of two minutes.

[Wooders]

I think there is a right time and a wrong time, it looked to me like fuller was legitamdetly fouled in the box and to highlight it to the refs you do sometimes need to hit the deck so they know its occurred - a full on flouncey dive whilst there was minimal contact is out of order however - added to this point I didn't see what all the fuss about maicon is in yesterdays game

[Kladze]

Maicon dragged one foot along the ground to make sure there was contact, then went down like a sack of spuds. That's why there's a fuss.

[Wooders]

Maicon dragged one foot along the ground to make sure there was contact, then went down like a sack of spuds. That's why there's a fuss.

sorry, I meant what the fuss is about him as a player, doesn't look like any great shakes to me

[Kladze]

Maicon dragged one foot along the ground to make sure there was contact, then went down like a sack of spuds. That's why there's a fuss.

sorry, I meant what the fuss is about him as a player, doesn't look like any great shakes to me

Ah ! That we can agree on.

[Guy Debord]

Honesty

[Im_Spartacus]

While I can't stand those who dive when no contact has happened, imho a forward who gets fouled into the box should fall, end of, unless he's an inch away from the line so the goal is "guaranteed". Why? Because he was fouled, so to try shooting in precarious balance can only lead to him missing the chance, and the ref not giving the penalty because he has shot.

I agree with you, but your very response confirms the crux of the problem. If he was fouled, its the referee's responsibility to give it. There should be no need to fuck about doing a triple salko with pike

The fact that players now hurl themselves to the ground, is entirely down to poor indecisive refereeing which has caused players and fans to start to take the view that overdramatising a situation is the only way to guarantee a decision.

It says more about the referees than about the players/fans who are now coming to accept this as just being part of the game

I know where you're coming from and I agree, although overdramatising the foul could also lead to the ref giving the player a yellow for diving, so imho it's not really a matter of overdramatising, it is a matter of knowing you have been fouled, and not try with all your might to stay on your feet, like some players instead do, but just go with the flow.

But this aside, I think the problem in referees not giving penalties when they should lies in the "abuse" they get when they make a wrong call, so they become afraid of making a mistake, and unless the foul is blatant, they don't award the penalty.

One of the best referees I've ever seen, Collina, was not afraid of making a mistake. I think he was the only referee in the world who would award two penalties to the away team in the space of two minutes.

If the referee is worried about the consequences/abuse, then the FA have a simple rule which should be implemented If they complain, book each and every one stood around you. If they are still there 5 seconds later, start sending them off.

It will only happen once or twice more in that country, and it will be over - never to be seen again.

FIFA only need implement this rule, by the end of the first weekend, the problem will have gone, as managers will start fining their players for stupid sendings off and diving, cheating and abusing referees becomes self regulated

[Kladze]

While I can't stand those who dive when no contact has happened, imho a forward who gets fouled into the box should fall, end of, unless he's an inch away from the line so the goal is "guaranteed". Why? Because he was fouled, so to try shooting in precarious balance can only lead to him missing the chance, and the ref not giving the penalty because he has shot.

I agree with you, but your very response confirms the crux of the problem. If he was fouled, its the referee's responsibility to give it. There should be no need to fuck about doing a triple salko with pike

The fact that players now hurl themselves to the ground, is entirely down to poor indecisive refereeing which has caused players and fans to start to take the view that overdramatising a situation is the only way to guarantee a decision.

It says more about the referees than about the players/fans who are now coming to accept this as just being part of the game

I know where you're coming from and I agree, although overdramatising the foul could also lead to the ref giving the player a yellow for diving, so imho it's not really a matter of overdramatising, it is a matter of knowing you have been fouled, and not try with all your might to stay on your feet, like some players instead do, but just go with the flow.

But this aside, I think the problem in referees not giving penalties when they should lies in the "abuse" they get when they make a wrong call, so they become afraid of making a mistake, and unless the foul is blatant, they don't award the penalty.

One of the best referees I've ever seen, Collina, was not afraid of making a mistake. I think he was the only referee in the world who would award two penalties to the away team in the space of two minutes.

If the referee is worried about the consequences/abuse, then the FA have a simple rule which should be implemented If they complain, book each and every one stood around you. If they are still there 5 seconds later, start sending them off.

It will only happen once or twice more in that country, and it will be over - never to be seen again.

FIFA only need implement this rule, by the end of the first weekend, the problem will have gone, as managers will start fining their players for stupid sendings off and diving, cheating and abusing referees becomes self regulated

Spot on John - same goes for shirt pulling at corners etc.

[Guy Debord]

[youtube]dYBj_qAJtRA[/youtube]

[Ted Hughes]

Touching on the point regarding penalties. I can never understand when a player is getting pulled, dragged or kicked at in the box (basically fouled) but he manages to get some sort of shot away that a penalty is hardly ever awarded.

9/10 times the attacker is fouled to the point where he can't shoot straight. Does the ref play the advantage rule?

Also when a player is shooting in the box and gets his shot away but is then poleaxed by a defender trying to make a last ditch block. Pens are never awarded for this either but outside of the box its a possible yellow or red card.

In reference to the title. Fans at the ground don't like pansy's much at City and we have always given our own players a rough time for going down so easily. Bianchi and Samaras spring to mind. Would be interesting to see how we'd react if we had Drogba and his antics though.

Conversely, fans in the ground seemed to very much like the "tactical fall". Everyone was very impressed with the way in which Didi could get a freekick at any time he wanted to and ease pressure out of the game.

Agree entirely with this.

Refs are encouraging cheating because they don't have the balls to blow for a pen if the player being fouled stays on his feet. By not diving you give the gutless gits the chance to duck out of making a decision which 99% of them take.

I remember Wanchope being obviously fouled v Spurs & he tried to get a shot in but couldn't reach the ball as the foul had slowed him down. Keegan said he was too honest & should have gone down. The next game, away in the UEFA , he collapsed after the mearest touch & got a pen. He was cheating according to instruction & it worked.

Re Didi, I think we've seen so many free kicks given against us for sod all that we cheered him for being good at doing what everyone else does to us.

[CityFanFromRome]

If the referee is worried about the consequences/abuse, then the FA have a simple rule which should be implemented If they complain, book each and every one stood around you. If they are still there 5 seconds later, start sending them off.

It will only happen once or twice more in that country, and it will be over - never to be seen again.

FIFA only need implement this rule, by the end of the first weekend, the problem will have gone, as managers will start fining their players for stupid sendings off and diving, cheating and abusing referees becomes self regulated

This might take care of the abuse from players, and another rule could be implemented to take care of any abuse that should come from the fans, ensuring the team of those fans loses the game 3-0 if they throw things at the referee or anything like that (it has happened, maybe not in England but it has, I remember a Champions League game between Roma and Dinamo Kiev where at half time the referee was hit by a coin thrown from a Roma fan, because he had sent Mexes off.)

The biggest problem, though, is that I think referees are afraid of being taken apart by slow motion replays, and generally by post-match analisys programmes, like MOTD and similar, and that making mistakes that will be highlighted by the TV will lead to a decrease of their reputation, and thus of their "importance".