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What was the real difference last night and effectively between us and the top sides? Last night we can look at the bounce of the ball and the odd mistake that may have cost us big time but over the two games what stood out to me was the difference in midfield.

Reflecting on last night's match I thought dfensively we weren't that bad. Kompany was excellent , Boyata pretty damn good especially considering his inexperience , Richards also was very good despite the odd weird moment , Garrido has come in for some stick but I thought he did ok and of course we have a top keeper even if there is an issue with his ability on crosses. Also bearing in mind the quality we didn't have last night in Bridge,Lescott and Toure I don't think we are too bad in that area of the pitch and compared to last night's opposition we were ok.

Up front I think we are also in good shape. Tevez is top quality, Ade the same although we do need to see it more consistently, Bellamy is excellent and on fire this season. Petrov isn't everybody's cup of tea but his performances this year have been very good as he does seem to contribute something positive every match. Robinho is .... Robinho , a real talent but seemingly a lost one and we have SWP. SWP isn't really a front man but he does some great work and is a fairly consistent threat with his assists and share of goals. So I think we compare quite well with others up front and definitely when compared to that lot last night.

In the middle though it's a bit different to me and last night shows why. As we set up last night with 3 across the middle , aided by Bellers and SWP getting back to assist , all was well in a defensive controlling way. There has been all sorts of debate about the need for 1 , 2 and now 3 defensive midfield players but it can work as the first half showed.The problem is it puts a massive onus on the front 3 to create and score as the 3 we have in the middle don't actually get involved in the forward threat or at least very rarely.

Compare to the scum middle 3. Ginger,Fletcher and Carrick although doing the controlling job also get well forward and threaten to score and certainly look capable of real assists. Two of them scored last night and the other would have done but for an amazing Shay save and they often appear in the box. Ours by comparison rarely get that far forward and don't really give the feeling that they might contribute a direct assist when playing in the roles they played last night.

We do have Stevie Ireland who I think is a real talent as an attacking midfielder but unless he has a free role he just doesnt seem to fit in right. Last night when he came on he just couldnt get into the game and he also doesnt seem to take up the right defensive positions either.Sadly I felt that when he came on if anything it worsened our cause rather than enhancing it.

Is this issue just down to the way the manager restricting the way he wants them to play or is it just the way they are. Barry for me can get forward more and has done at times in the past. NDJ is quality at the anchor role , Zabba can do a job although he isn't a midfielder for me but overall we are missing something in the middle. Seems to me the big area to sort to really make that next step.

have to agree 100%. untill we have a midfield that can control a game we'll only ever be succesfull:
a.)on the break
b.) because of sheer brilliance up front.

Can't believe I fully agree with your post regarding football tactics. But I do.

Having Zabaleta and De Jong together on the bottom of the midfield with Barry supposed to be takinf care of playmaking duties was stretch too far as it turned out last night. None of them offer much going forward and Barry has been lost eversince that Villa game apart from one or two exceptions. Then again, when we threw Ireland in there he didn't do much either.

Old saying goes that games are won and lost in midfield and we are imo missing Steven Gerrard type of marshall. I feel that Vieira was brought to do some of that especially for games like this but he isn't/wasn't available for selection.

Agree with a lot of that Doug, as Barry and De Jong were found wanting in the 2nd half when we effectively collapsed under the barrage.

We needed some leaders out there but didn't have any - who did Vieira's medical by the way, Dr Nick out of the Simpsons? - and Barry is not a top class midfielder as he seems to pull a disappearing act at times in games. We didn't retain possession well enough, and when faced with the inevitable spell of United pressure we just couldn't deal with it, and truth be told they could have scored 5 or 6 in that 2nd half.

Both full-backs aren't good enough either if we are entertaining ideas of dining at football's top table. Garrido wasn't good enough last season and yet we had him playing in our biggest game for years, whilst Richards may look like Tarzan but often plays like Jane -I've never seen such a tough looking guy go over so often.

I dont quite agree in that I think we would've had a more solid base with Toure, Lescott and Bridge, all of whom could've contributed more going forward and given the midfield a more solid foundation for the match.

To be honest it's quite easy to look good as a defender if you're under a lot of pressure, kicking balls out left right and centre (a la Dunnie). (Except Garrido of course.) It's taking that up another level we dont have, due to injuries or future purchases!

And what these idiots in the press never allow for is that we were actually playing the champions, on their own patch.

I can see your point, but there isn't a huge load of midfielders who have both defensive and offensive abilities in their game that come to my mind. Essien might be one, as De Rossi from Roma, or Cambiasso from Inter. Fabregas, maybe, although I'm not sure he's so good defensively, but I might be mistaken. Perrotta is another one who does both parts of the game, but he hasn't enough quality for us imho, however he does score his share of goals and does his share of assists. Out of these few, I can't think of a really complete midfielder in that sense, most are specialized in a part of the game, but not in the other.

Xavi and Iniesta, for example, are two of the best midfielders in the world, but they mostly focus on scoring and creating chances, leaving Yaya Tourè or another holding midfielder to win the ball back, most of the time. Gerrard and Lampard mostly focus on the attacking part of the game too.

More or less spot on - we didn´t have the quality to move them around and get forward and get into the box - that´s why Ade should have started up front with Tevez in the hole - would have at least helped in this respect

Three defensive midfielders can be one too many if none of them are prepared (or able) to get themselves in advance of the central front man .... end of.

I am actually really disappointed by Ireland to be honest. After the season he had last year I thought he would do much better for us this season but when he came on he was near invisible. We really need a Gerrard type playmaker.

Yes, we were playing the champions, you dont get to contain them.

We did very very well, it was just 2 or 3% off us coming out on top . the stats tell the picture, we had more chances.

Abit more time together, Ade back, more options off the bench, and I still cant help thinking left back is our weakness

I thought Richards did VERY well last night, and that shot was a belter, he couldnt have put it anywhere better, it was just a great save.

avoidconfusion wrote:I am actually really disappointed by Ireland to be honest. After the season he had last year I thought he would do much better for us this season but when he came on he was near invisible. We really need a Gerrard type playmaker.

I don't know if I am disappointed with Ireland or just confused. He is such a quality footballer but last night , as we have seen before , he just gets lost.Can't work out why.

"Can't believe I fully agree with your post regarding football tactics. But I do."

I think I need a lie down :)

Agree with your comments, I expected that if Ade didn't start, Ireland would be behind Tevez in his perfect position. I don't think Ireland can play effectively as a box-to-boxer, but showed last season that he is a very good playmaker. Hopefully Mancini will play 2 up front on Sunday so yet again Ireland will be denied his chance in that role.

If Ireland is to progress he needs to watch Fabregas who is now one of the world's best box-to-boxer.

Good post Douglas. I was mildly surprised Zabba started ahead of Ireland because Ireland could have made those breaking runs for Tevez, Bellers and SWP to feed. Barry, as I see him, is a solid user of the ball but its not in his game to make these runs by habit, he'll do it once in a while but not with Irelands regularity. Its a balance I'm sure Mancini is looking at. Vieira will help this, but until he plays Im not sure if he can recapture his Arsenal effectiveness.

Agree!

The strength and mobility they had in central midfield in Carrick and Fletcher was way beyond what we had and for me that’s why they had so much possession.

De Jong was poor last night and gave the ball away all the time.

If we’re playing a defensive mid it should be De Jong and Barry should get further up the pitch down the centre. Not sure he has the legs for that role though so he naturally sits back and you end up with 2 deep mids and nothing in the centre.

Has to be addressed in the short time we have left in the window + a left back.

Micah still doesn’t know if he’s a CB or a FB! Last night much too narrow, drifting infield and allowing their central 2 to feed Giggs.

Agree about the midfield but despite all the good overall performances at the back, the defence completely, utterly fell to pieces 4 times. You could have Colin Bell & Steven Gerrard in midfield but if you concede such easily preventable goals you're struggling. There were 4-5 City players around the ball on each of the 1st two goals & yet the ball ended up at the feet of rags because of sheer panic. Then we failed to block shots which should have been stopped easily.

Wayne Rooney (the bloke who scored 4 goals on Saturday) was left completely unmarked 6 yards from goal TWICE. Someone needs to explain to me why that would happen once in a season, never mind twice in one game. Do they not recognise him? "Who's that stood in our 6 yard box?" "Some ginger bloke, it'll be ok" Is it not possible for just one player in the team to be alert enough to cover? I mean whose fucking zone was he in when he headed the winner unnopposed in injury time? Boyata was near post then there were about 8 City players stood in the box ignoring Rooney! Why? Take some responsibility ffs. Sort it out.

Re midfield. Ours has shown in the games with rags that they don't currently have the bottle to play football under pressure. They're ok when the rags are having a quiet spell but as soon as the pressures on, they give the ball away too easily & they start chasing shadows & missing important tackles. In this season's big away games none, including Ireland, have proved themselves to be good enough for the very top level. Whether they can get there, or where we find 'A' list players if they can't, I don't know.

Ted Hughes wrote:Agree about the midfield but despite all the good overall performances at the back, the defence completely, utterly fell to pieces 4 times. You could have Colin Bell & Steven Gerrard in midfield but if you concede such easily preventable goals you're struggling. There were 4-5 City players around the ball on each of the 1st two goals & yet the ball ended up at the feet of rags because of sheer panic. Then we failed to block shots which should have been stopped easily.

Wayne Rooney (the bloke who scored 4 goals on Saturday) was left completely unmarked 6 yards from goal TWICE. Someone needs to explain to me why that would happen once in a season, never mind twice in one game. Do they not recognise him? "Who's that stood in our 6 yard box?" "Some ginger bloke, it'll be ok" Is it not possible for just one player in the team to be alert enough to cover? I mean whose fucking zone was he in when he headed the winner unnopposed in injury time? Boyata was near post then there were about 8 City players stood in the box ignoring Rooney! Why? Take some responsibility ffs. Sort it out.

Re midfield. Ours has shown in the games with rags that they don't currently have the bottle to play football under pressure. They're ok when the rags are having a quiet spell but as soon as the pressures on, they give the ball away too easily & they start chasing shadows & missing important tackles. In this season's big away games none, including Ireland, have proved themselves to be good enough for the very top level. Whether they can get there, or where we find 'A' list players if they can't, I don't know.

Thats the unforgivable part.

To have the most in from striker, probably in world football at the minute, have two free shots on goal from closer than the penalty spot is ridiculous.

We better beat a good team soon.

Original Dub wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Agree about the midfield but despite all the good overall performances at the back, the defence completely, utterly fell to pieces 4 times. You could have Colin Bell & Steven Gerrard in midfield but if you concede such easily preventable goals you're struggling. There were 4-5 City players around the ball on each of the 1st two goals & yet the ball ended up at the feet of rags because of sheer panic. Then we failed to block shots which should have been stopped easily.

Wayne Rooney (the bloke who scored 4 goals on Saturday) was left completely unmarked 6 yards from goal TWICE. Someone needs to explain to me why that would happen once in a season, never mind twice in one game. Do they not recognise him? "Who's that stood in our 6 yard box?" "Some ginger bloke, it'll be ok" Is it not possible for just one player in the team to be alert enough to cover? I mean whose fucking zone was he in when he headed the winner unnopposed in injury time? Boyata was near post then there were about 8 City players stood in the box ignoring Rooney! Why? Take some responsibility ffs. Sort it out.

Re midfield. Ours has shown in the games with rags that they don't currently have the bottle to play football under pressure. They're ok when the rags are having a quiet spell but as soon as the pressures on, they give the ball away too easily & they start chasing shadows & missing important tackles. In this season's big away games none, including Ireland, have proved themselves to be good enough for the very top level. Whether they can get there, or where we find 'A' list players if they can't, I don't know.

Thats the unforgivable part.

To have the most in from striker, probably in world football at the minute, have two free shots on goal from closer than the penalty spot is ridiculous.

We better beat a good team soon.

didn't we last week?

I think we need Ireland back at his best providing that link up play between midfield and the strikers.Hes the only player we have who in centre midfield who can break and play balls in ahead of attackers to go through on goal.He can pick a pass where as Dejong and Barry dont seem to have that dimension to thier game.I would like to see Irelanad back in the side ahead of barry as a creative outlet and de jong behind him to clean up when needs be.Ireland is capable of really hurting teams we are all well aware of what hes about and hopefully he will get a run in the side again soon.

Good post. The midfield loses control of matches too often.

Also we are bad at protecting the back 4. This feels like ground hog day but considering De Jong is meant to sit in front of the back four and make tackles I'm amazed at how other teams walk through us. I have my doubts about him as well. The game against Chelsea he was world class. But it seems like a one-off from him. He goes missing too often.