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Why can we not dictate the pace of a game? We can do it in spells, see the last couple of minutes in the first half and in patches in the 2nd.

But other than that we seem to let teams start at their tempo and then struggle to impose ourselves on a game. With the players we have, we should be able to knock it about with ease, rather than panicking and sending it backwards until it inevitably gets thrown forward.

You can't control a game when you tell your midfielders never to be more than spitting distance from your defenders. We are set up tactically to play a game that naturally means we will never control a game from start to finish.

MaineRoadMemories wrote:You can't control a game when you tell your midfielders never to be more than spitting distance from your defenders. We are set up tactically to play a game that naturally means we will never control a game from start to finish.

You can if you have the right players. Vieira plays well in that system. Ireland has obviously has never read this book before!!

MaineRoadMemories wrote:You can't control a game when you tell your midfielders never to be more than spitting distance from your defenders. We are set up tactically to play a game that naturally means we will never control a game from start to finish.

Also Barry & DeJong naturally look sideways or backwards as their first option & Ireland often just wastes the ball. Watching Gerrard today in the midst of shite, every touch is quick & positive unless he has no option.

Our tactics may be shite but I think we need a better quality midfield in our 1st 11. The ones we've got are good quality squad players but we need more.

Given

Zab Kompany Lescott Bridge

Vieira

SWP SOMEONE NEW Jinky

Tevez

Garafabaybor

Would have shape, danger all around and be able to control games.

Crossie wrote:Given

Zab Kompany Lescott Bridge

Vieira

SWP SOMEONE NEW Jinky

Tevez

Garafabaybor

Would have shape, danger all around and be able to control games.

Vieira's not up to doing that job without help.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Crossie wrote:Given

Zab Kompany Lescott Bridge

Vieira

SWP SOMEONE NEW Jinky

Tevez

Garafabaybor

Would have shape, danger all around and be able to control games.

Vieira's not up to doing that job without help.

I think he can.

I dont care, im sick of all these defensive midfielders that cant pass forward or do anything but crunch tackle and give free kicks away.

We have enough quality and pace to only need 1, an experience one who knows what he is doing, can pass forward, head, tackle, score and influence the bunch of pussies we had out there today.

Thanks.. Was sayin this earlier, that we dont have a creative attackin mid in our side that can make things happen. Also feel our game breaks down due to our shit defence. Seems like our mid and attackers cant focus on their own game as they have to make up for aweful defenders that cant do the job on their own..Im sure Manc will be onto this in the summer.

edge275 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Crossie wrote:Given

Zab Kompany Lescott Bridge

Vieira

SWP SOMEONE NEW Jinky

Tevez

Garafabaybor

Would have shape, danger all around and be able to control games.

Vieira's not up to doing that job without help.

I think he can.

Hughes tried it with DeJong who's much more mobile & we ended up with the back 4 (not being good individually enough) without protection leaking goals. If the 'someone new' was like Vieira aged 25 then it might work but I haven't seen such a player.

Ted Hughes wrote:

edge275 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Crossie wrote:Given

Zab Kompany Lescott Bridge

Vieira

SWP SOMEONE NEW Jinky

Tevez

Garafabaybor

Would have shape, danger all around and be able to control games.

Vieira's not up to doing that job without help.

I think he can.

Hughes tried it with DeJong who's much more mobile & we ended up with the back 4 (not being good individually enough) without protection leaking goals. If the 'someone new' was like Vieira aged 25 then it might work but I haven't seen such a player.

So you're saying that after spending the best part of 60 million on a new defence the last 12 months or so, that we need not one but TWO defensive midfielders? I'm not buying it. Vieira would be enough on his own.

edge275 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

edge275 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Crossie wrote:Given

Zab Kompany Lescott Bridge

Vieira

SWP SOMEONE NEW Jinky

Tevez

Garafabaybor

Would have shape, danger all around and be able to control games.

Vieira's not up to doing that job without help.

I think he can.

Hughes tried it with DeJong who's much more mobile & we ended up with the back 4 (not being good individually enough) without protection leaking goals. If the 'someone new' was like Vieira aged 25 then it might work but I haven't seen such a player.

So you're saying that after spending the best part of 60 million on a new defence the last 12 months or so, that we need not one but TWO defensive midfielders? I'm not buying it. Vieira would be enough on his own.

I doubt Mancini will agree. I recon you're more likely to see 3.

bluej wrote:Why can we not dictate the pace of a game? We can do it in spells, see the last couple of minutes in the first half and in patches in the 2nd.

It's a good question because it gets to the heart of what makes a team successful. And the answer is the midfield. In the past we used to call them a "midfield general". Whoever dominates midfield will dominate the match.

To be fair to the manager during the transfer window we bought Vieira, and tried to sign Mariga and Gago. Mariga and Vieira are both players who receive the ball deep and turn and drive at the opposition. Gago is the type who sits in front of the back four and initiates attacks. Therefore, Mancini knows this is the problem. The fact he focused transfer activity on central midfield shows this.

Mr Miyagi wrote:

bluej wrote:Why can we not dictate the pace of a game? We can do it in spells, see the last couple of minutes in the first half and in patches in the 2nd.

It's a good question because it gets to the heart of what makes a team successful. And the answer is the midfield. In the past we used to call them a "midfield general". Whoever dominates midfield will dominate the match.

To be fair to the manager during the transfer window we bought Vieira, and tried to sign Mariga and Gago. Mariga and Vieira are both players who receive the ball deep and turn and drive at the opposition. Gago is the type who sits in front of the back four and initiates attacks. Therefore, Mancini knows this is the problem. The fact he focused transfer activity on central midfield shows this.

I haven't seen Vieira 'drive at the opposition' regularly for about 4 years. Imo he's been bought to sit in front of the back 4 but the fact that we're losing our ability to attack may mean that goes out of the window.

All good teams have at least 2 combative, mobile midfielders capable of defensive duties but also with the ability to drive forward and initiate attacks and score a fair few too.
They all have good engines!
u****d have Carrick & fletcher, Chelsea have Lampard and Essian, Arsenal have introduced Song alongside fabregas even scouse 1 have Gerrard but they do play the standard deep holding player in Mascherano.

We have an out and out def mid in De Jong and Barry is fast becoming his shadow!
Ireland is way out of sorts (I'm beginning to wonder if he's the player we thought he was?) he certainly doesn't control a game - never has - and gets by because he can pass a ball (or used to).

From as far back as I can remember every good pro or manager has sworn by "the spine" of a team being sound!
We have a gaping hole in the middle of the park, where for me games are won or lost, and until this is filled we will flatter to deceive but ultimately fail unless its addressed!

M147WN wrote:All good teams have at least 2 combative, mobile midfielders capable of defensive duties but also with the ability to drive forward and initiate attacks and score a fair few too.
They all have good engines!
u****d have Carrick & fletcher, Chelsea have Lampard and Essian, Arsenal have introduced Song alongside fabregas even scouse 1 have Gerrard but they do play the standard deep holding player in Mascherano.

We have an out and out def mid in De Jong and Barry is fast becoming his shadow!
Ireland is way out of sorts (I'm beginning to wonder if he's the player we thought he was?) he certainly doesn't control a game - never has - and gets by because he can pass a ball (or used to).

From as far back as I can remember every good pro or manager has sworn by "the spine" of a team being sound!
We have a gaping hole in the middle of the park, where for me games are won or lost, and until this is filled we will flatter to deceive but ultimately fail unless its addressed!

Well you have to question the club

What the fuck are we doing without mariga or gago, when allegedly we knew that these were the players we needed early doors. These players should have been approached early doors. Yet, we waited till the last possible moment, and even had the Kenyan PM putting in protestations. With regards Gago, it should never have gotten to this stage to start with.

M147WN wrote:All good teams have at least 2 combative, mobile midfielders capable of defensive duties but also with the ability to drive forward and initiate attacks and score a fair few too.
They all have good engines!
u****d have Carrick & fletcher, Chelsea have Lampard and Essian, Arsenal have introduced Song alongside fabregas even scouse 1 have Gerrard but they do play the standard deep holding player in Mascherano.

I agree with the rest of your post, just wanted to add that scouse 1 are going to have a fully fit Aquilani too in the middle of the park and he's another one who can control a game, maybe not as well as Fabregas or Lampard, or Gerrard himself, but he has the skill to do it. Also, from what I've read on RAWK, most of them like what he has shown so far attacking-wise, although they aren't that impressed with his defensive ability, so it seems he's adapting to the English game and if he does, he can become another strength point for them in midfield.