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...that we started a game without a graduate of the Academy in the line-up?

yesterday?

think that's his point.
We are used to seeing maybe 4 academy lads.
Roberto has changed that.
And as Hughes apparently ruined the Academy, the golden era could be gone

Interesting post Lev. Bobby clearly hasn't got any prejudice in favour of academy players which is great - each on his own merit I say, no misty-eyed sentimentality.

But I think the general opinion is that the 'next crop' doesn't have anbody outstanding in it, hence our buying up star 16 yr olds from all over the world.

Without looking into it with much depth CTK-style, lets do a quick analysis of our home-grown players in the squad, and how they will take us into a top 4 side. It shows that it's not surprising really:

Ireland - excellent last season, nowhere near it this year as per loads of threads. Currently not top 4.

Sweep - On occasion brilliant but couldn't hold down a place at Chelski (where he declined in performance), gives the ball away or is knocked off it for too much for Bobby (sorry Antii). Johnson clearly bought to add more value here. Currently not top 4.

Boyata - has promise, may be very good in future. Certainly not top 4 now.

Ned - Now seems to have been around forever, a steady player when not injured (which is rare), but only once (for a time last season) has he looked the part. Kept out by everyone including Boyata, so not Top 4 now.

Richards - been playing well recently until injured and if he keeps working at it he'll be there. Top 4 player.

Weiss - one look at him and Bobby sent him off to Bolton and bought Johnson. Hmm.

Michael Johnson - the box-to-box player we are currently missing. Reminded us briefly this season how good he was, until injured again. Possible if ever fit.

Alex Sapphire wrote:think that's his point.
We are used to seeing maybe 4 academy lads.
Roberto has changed that.
And as Hughes apparently ruined the Academy, the golden era could be gone

Roberto has changed that how? Boyata and Ibrahim have both made their debuts since he arrived, Stevie, Nedum, Micah, Weiss, and SWP have all played under him and yet we play one game (out of three within the space of seven days) where none start and Mancini apparently has an anti youth policy?

Maybe he's just seen that by overplaying some of the younger players that they have become prone to injury and loss of form? Most of our better reserves are out on loan and yet Boyata and Ibrahim came from nowhere to get game time but even if they had been world beaters I doubt they would have kept their places. Mancini has said all along that once players start to return from injury and we therefore have more options that he would do some squad rotation as the PL season is too long and hard for every player to play every game.

In fact, despite what many people seem to believe about his contract I think that Mancini is playing the long game, he has a vision of where we can be and the potential of each player and is not prepared to sacrifice that in favour of short termism. In fact the whole criticism of Mancini's tactics is laughable, he's been here just over a month and is working hard to get the discipline into the team's tactics that was sorely missing under Hughes and that takes time, unfortunately that means that at the moment it isn't great to watch but he is surely just building the foundations of our style of play. We should be able to accurately judge him after 12 months, not 1!

irblinx wrote:

Alex Sapphire wrote:think that's his point.
We are used to seeing maybe 4 academy lads.
Roberto has changed that.
And as Hughes apparently ruined the Academy, the golden era could be gone

Roberto has changed that how? Boyata and Ibrahim have both made their debuts since he arrived, Stevie, Nedum, Micah, Weiss, and SWP have all played under him and yet we play one game (out of three within the space of seven days) where none start and Mancini apparently has an anti youth policy?

Maybe he's just seen that by overplaying some of the younger players that they have become prone to injury and loss of form? Most of our better reserves are out on loan and yet Boyata and Ibrahim came from nowhere to get game time but even if they had been world beaters I doubt they would have kept their places. Mancini has said all along that once players start to return from injury and we therefore have more options that he would do some squad rotation as the PL season is too long and hard for every player to play every game.

In fact, despite what many people seem to believe about his contract I think that Mancini is playing the long game, he has a vision of where we can be and the potential of each player and is not prepared to sacrifice that in favour of short termism. In fact the whole criticism of Mancini's tactics is laughable, he's been here just over a month and is working hard to get the discipline into the team's tactics that was sorely missing under Hughes and that takes time, unfortunately that means that at the moment it isn't great to watch but he is surely just building the foundations of our style of play. We should be able to accurately judge him after 12 months, not 1!

Well said !

john@staustell wrote:Interesting post Lev. Bobby clearly hasn't got any prejudice in favour of academy players which is great - each on his own merit I say, no misty-eyed sentimentality.

But I think the general opinion is that the 'next crop' doesn't have anbody outstanding in it, hence our buying up star 16 yr olds from all over the world.

Without looking into it with much depth CTK-style, lets do a quick analysis of our home-grown players in the squad, and how they will take us into a top 4 side. It shows that it's not surprising really:

Ireland - excellent last season, nowhere near it this year as per loads of threads. Currently not top 4.

Sweep - On occasion brilliant but couldn't hold down a place at Chelski (where he declined in performance), gives the ball away or is knocked off it for too much for Bobby (sorry Antii). Johnson clearly bought to add more value here. Currently not top 4.

Boyata - has promise, may be very good in future. Certainly not top 4 now.

Ned - Now seems to have been around forever, a steady player when not injured (which is rare), but only once (for a time last season) has he looked the part. Kept out by everyone including Boyata, so not Top 4 now.

Richards - been playing well recently until injured and if he keeps working at it he'll be there. Top 4 player.

Weiss - one look at him and Bobby sent him off to Bolton and bought Johnson. Hmm.

Michael Johnson - the box-to-box player we are currently missing. Reminded us briefly this season how good he was, until injured again. Possible if ever fit.

One a left winger and one a right winger. Weiss needs the experience, especially with World Cup coming up. Totally unrelated imo

Blue2 wrote:

john@staustell wrote:Interesting post Lev. Bobby clearly hasn't got any prejudice in favour of academy players which is great - each on his own merit I say, no misty-eyed sentimentality.

But I think the general opinion is that the 'next crop' doesn't have anbody outstanding in it, hence our buying up star 16 yr olds from all over the world.

Without looking into it with much depth CTK-style, lets do a quick analysis of our home-grown players in the squad, and how they will take us into a top 4 side. It shows that it's not surprising really:

Ireland - excellent last season, nowhere near it this year as per loads of threads. Currently not top 4.

Sweep - On occasion brilliant but couldn't hold down a place at Chelski (where he declined in performance), gives the ball away or is knocked off it for too much for Bobby (sorry Antii). Johnson clearly bought to add more value here. Currently not top 4.

Boyata - has promise, may be very good in future. Certainly not top 4 now.

Ned - Now seems to have been around forever, a steady player when not injured (which is rare), but only once (for a time last season) has he looked the part. Kept out by everyone including Boyata, so not Top 4 now.

Richards - been playing well recently until injured and if he keeps working at it he'll be there. Top 4 player.

Weiss - one look at him and Bobby sent him off to Bolton and bought Johnson. Hmm.

Michael Johnson - the box-to-box player we are currently missing. Reminded us briefly this season how good he was, until injured again. Possible if ever fit.

One a left winger and one a right winger. Weiss needs the experience, especially with World Cup coming up. Totally unrelated imo

Maybe bluey. But Bobby doesn't care about Slovakia'a world cup prospects, or anybody else's for that matter. And quite rightly so. I reckon he just didn't think too much of him, and gave him his short chance at Boro in the cup. If he was up to it he'd be playing right now. He's 20 you know, this isn't some 16-yr old kid we're talking about here. I believe 20 is getting a bit old to be a 'prospect', like Sturridge.

irblinx wrote:

Alex Sapphire wrote:think that's his point.
We are used to seeing maybe 4 academy lads.
Roberto has changed that.
And as Hughes apparently ruined the Academy, the golden era could be gone

Roberto has changed that how?

he's dropped Nedum
he's dropped Richards
Stevie is not a regular
he loves playing a left footer on the right, so SWP place under threat
Weiss out on loan
More Academy loanees than ever?

And yes he's played Boyata (while Toure and Lescott out) and Ibrahim (while Vieira unavailable).
Cunningham's impersonation of a rabbit will not have persuaded RM that he should take a chance on youth.
And I guess the proof of the pudding will now be whether he drops Zabaleta (my man of the match) for Micah, Toure, Kompany or Lescott for Onuoha or Boyata,
whether he plays SWP and Johnson from the start (and drops Bellamy), etc
Let's see

I dont believe Bobby will have a set team. He will rest people in certain games and use his whole squad more. Richards will be in if fit. But I'm not sure, as I said in the post above, any of the others are really up to the mark at the moment, misty-eyed academy players or not!

Bobby quite rightly looks at the player in front of him, his origin is irrelevant.

john@staustell wrote:I dont believe Bobby will have a set team. He will rest people in certain games and use his whole squad more. Richards will be in if fit. But I'm not sure, as I said in the post above, any of the others are really up to the mark at the moment, misty-eyed academy players or not!

Bobby quite rightly looks at the player in front of him, his origin is irrelevant.

I think that's fair enough. It's not in keeping with the bullshit some of the people on here were feeding me just a few weeks ago regarding his keeness to play youngsters compared to previous managers though. More & more hypocricy from them.

I think he's got every right to do what he can to preserve his job because that's the deal he's been given. Hughes may have done the same, if he'd realised he was so close to the sack. He has to get results pure & simple & he also needs to have as many players as possible fresh for the last third of the season in order to achieve that.

Alex Sapphire wrote:

irblinx wrote:

Alex Sapphire wrote:think that's his point.
We are used to seeing maybe 4 academy lads.
Roberto has changed that.
And as Hughes apparently ruined the Academy, the golden era could be gone

Roberto has changed that how?

he's dropped Nedum
he's dropped Richards
Stevie is not a regular
he loves playing a left footer on the right, so SWP place under threat
Weiss out on loan
More Academy loanees than ever?

And yes he's played Boyata (while Toure and Lescott out) and Ibrahim (while Vieira unavailable).
Cunningham's impersonation of a rabbit will not have persuaded RM that he should take a chance on youth.
And I guess the proof of the pudding will now be whether he drops Zabaleta (my man of the match) for Micah, Toure, Kompany or Lescott for Onuoha or Boyata,
whether he plays SWP and Johnson from the start (and drops Bellamy), etc
Let's see

Nedum didn't get back into the team following his latest injury, so how is he dropped? Timing of his return is the biggest factor in his absence from the team
Micah played until he got injured, so in what way has he been dropped?
Stevie's form has been poor recently for whatever reason, playing academy players regardless of form would do more harm than good
SWP likewise, a combination of poor form and being constantly assaulting on the pitch with no protection from the officials
Weiss needs game time and truthfully isn't quite ready for our first team yet
The loanees make perfect sense, why would you not want these lads playing at a higher level?

irblinx wrote:

Alex Sapphire wrote:

irblinx wrote:

Alex Sapphire wrote:think that's his point.
We are used to seeing maybe 4 academy lads.
Roberto has changed that.
And as Hughes apparently ruined the Academy, the golden era could be gone

Roberto has changed that how?

he's dropped Nedum
he's dropped Richards
Stevie is not a regular
he loves playing a left footer on the right, so SWP place under threat
Weiss out on loan
More Academy loanees than ever?

And yes he's played Boyata (while Toure and Lescott out) and Ibrahim (while Vieira unavailable).
Cunningham's impersonation of a rabbit will not have persuaded RM that he should take a chance on youth.
And I guess the proof of the pudding will now be whether he drops Zabaleta (my man of the match) for Micah, Toure, Kompany or Lescott for Onuoha or Boyata,
whether he plays SWP and Johnson from the start (and drops Bellamy), etc
Let's see

Nedum didn't get back into the team following his latest injury, so how is he dropped? Timing of his return is the biggest factor in his absence from the team
Micah played until he got injured, so in what way has he been dropped?
Stevie's form has been poor recently for whatever reason, playing academy players regardless of form would do more harm than good
SWP likewise, a combination of poor form and being constantly assaulting on the pitch with no protection from the officials
Weiss needs game time and truthfully isn't quite ready for our first team yet
The loanees make perfect sense, why would you not want these lads playing at a higher level?

disagree about Nedum. He seems ready to play anyone ahead of him at CB when fit.
We'll have to see (as I said) about Micah, but Zabaleta has started all of Mancini's league games. looks like 1st choice to me.
I agree that Stevie's form isn't as good as it was. He's still out of the team, and midfield is very competitive.
SWP I think has been very good (don't accept the criticisms), but no longer guaranteed a start.
Loaning out the youth is a good idea, I agree, but it also means they can't be in the first team any time soon.
So to the OPs question it is a long time since we had no Academy lads on show. Last night may not ne a one off though

Alex Sapphire wrote:We'll have to see (as I said) about Micah, but Zabaleta has started all of Mancini's league games. looks like 1st choice to me.

How very selective of you with the facts there, A vs Wolves, H v Blackburn & A v Everton in the league Micah also played, and what's more he played at RB with a fit Zabba in the team in a different position, I reckon that makes Micah 1st choice. He also played both league cup games since Mancini arrived (you might remember them) and one of the FA Cup ties, other than that he was returning from injury for the first game and has been injured for the last three.

So since Mancini arrived:

League games = 7 Micah started at RB = 3 Zabba started at RB = 4
League Cup games = 2 Micah started at RB = 2 Zabba started at RB = 0
FA Cup games = 2 Micah started at RB = 1 Zabba started at RB = 0

Lev Bronstein wrote:...that we started a game without a graduate of the Academy in the line-up?

Fuck! you should post this in off topic as well. Sorry Gillie but this is the best game ever!! ... and it's very hard . . . um . . . er 1983?

irblinx wrote:How very selective of you with the facts there, A vs Wolves, H v Blackburn & A v Everton in the league Micah also played, and what's more he played at RB with a fit Zabba in the team in a different position,

so who are you suggesting were the centre back pairings for Blackburn and Everton?

Alex Sapphire wrote:

irblinx wrote:How very selective of you with the facts there, A vs Wolves, H v Blackburn & A v Everton in the league Micah also played, and what's more he played at RB with a fit Zabba in the team in a different position,

so who are you suggesting were the centre back pairings for Blackburn and Everton?

Apologies, you're right on them (had a long few days!), when we had no-one else fit he did put Micah in at CB, still makes it 11 games, Micah RB = 4 Zabba RB = 6 and Micah not fit for one and injured for 3, cut it any way you like it does NOT point to Zabba being first choice. Micah played RB in the two semi finals in that time too so you can hardly claim it's only in the less important matches.

irblinx wrote:

Alex Sapphire wrote:

irblinx wrote:How very selective of you with the facts there, A vs Wolves, H v Blackburn & A v Everton in the league Micah also played, and what's more he played at RB with a fit Zabba in the team in a different position,

so who are you suggesting were the centre back pairings for Blackburn and Everton?

Apologies, you're right on them (had a long few days!), when we had no-one else fit he did put Micah in at CB, still makes it 11 games, Micah RB = 4 Zabba RB = 6 and Micah not fit for one and injured for 3, cut it any way you like it does NOT point to Zabba being first choice. Micah played RB in the two semi finals in that time too so you can hardly claim it's only in the less important matches.

you're right I shouldn't discount the cup games.
In the league Zab has played at RB all but once, when he filled in at LB.
Looks like he likes them both, and the problem starts now he has so many fit players