The Big Question?

[Beefymcfc]

Simply, is it the players or is it the management?

[gillie]

Simply, is it the players or is it the management?

Honest answer hate to say it but its management.Reason we are now the most nagative we have been for 18 months.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Simply, is it the players or is it the management?

If it's the players what do you think we should do?

If it's the manager what do you think we should do?

Justing pointing finger isn't very constructive. You have to be able to offer solution.

[Beefymcfc]

Simply, is it the players or is it the management?

If it's the players what do you think we should do?

If it's the manager what do you think we should do?

Justing pointing finger isn't very constructive. You have to be able to offer solution.

Not pointing fingers big man, just asking the question. There is a million page thread about Mancio who we all want to get us playing well, but at the same time the team aren't doing that; are they?

[gillie]

Simply, is it the players or is it the management?

If it's the players what do you think we should do?

If it's the manager what do you think we should do?

Justing pointing finger isn't very constructive. You have to be able to offer solution.

I wont point Antti i will say its the manager he is Italian and he is negative thats why the last few games have been purgatory to watch.

[Blue Since 76]

Think the problem is a combination of manager and players. Players clearly aren't good enough in a lot of cases and mancini is therefore trying to find ways to stop us losing, but it's terrible to watch.

The answer? Well, I don't expect mancini to be manager by august, unless something miraculous happens between now and then. Regarding players, we need to keep improving. We need 2 fullbacks, at least 1 centre half who can head and tackle, a box to box midfielder with pace and, potentially, someone who can pass. That's another £200m.

When we then make the top 4, we need to find our torres/drogba/fabregas etc, who can win a match single handedly. That will make us title contenders.

Did someone mention 10 year plan?

[sidSmith]

I think it's the management.

I'm really disappointed in what we've had to watch in the last few matches, I think we look worse off now than we did 2/3 months ago. But no, I don't know what the solution is.

[Wooders]

Simply, is it the players or is it the management?

If it's the players what do you think we should do?

If it's the manager what do you think we should do?

Justing pointing finger isn't very constructive. You have to be able to offer solution.

He's asking a question mate !
Besides any "solution" he comes up with will hardly have an effect on real life

for me I think it has to be down to the players - this isn't Mancini's team and if what I am hearing about Marwood is right, it wasn't entirely hughes's team either, its a hotch potch of talented players who don't compliment each other that well - from what I understand we have a "director of football" in everything but name and we all know how well that turns out in the prem!
add to that we seem to be using Pearces old "tactics book" for some reason

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Simply, is it the players or is it the management?

If it's the players what do you think we should do?

If it's the manager what do you think we should do?

Justing pointing finger isn't very constructive. You have to be able to offer solution.

I wont point Antti i will say its the manager he is Italian and he is negative thats why the last few games have been purgatory to watch.

Ancellotti and Cappello don't seem to be having too many troubles though. That said, performance today was shite and there's no two ways about it. Still, as long as we are on the run for fourth and in FA cup it would be ridiculous to point finger at either really. No one should expecting us to win every game as that's not what is needed to achieve our aims.

Quality of football is another argument though.

[sidSmith]

Simply, is it the players or is it the management?

If it's the players what do you think we should do?

If it's the manager what do you think we should do?

Justing pointing finger isn't very constructive. You have to be able to offer solution.

I wont point Antti i will say its the manager he is Italian and he is negative thats why the last few games have been purgatory to watch.

Ancellotti and Cappello don't seem to be having too many troubles though. That said, performance today was shite and there's no two ways about it. Still, as long as we are on the run for fourth and in FA cup it would be ridiculous to point finger at either really. No one should expecting us to win every game as that's not what is needed to achieve our aims.

Quality of football is another argument though.

Do you think you're clutching at straws by pointing out the positives that we're still in the cup and in the race for 4th? These are the things I point out to people but I must admit it's coming out more and more through gritted teeth after each game.

What other positives can we draw from our performances in recent times?

[BobKowalski]

What other positives can we draw from our performances in recent times?

Played 4 won 2, drew 1, lost 1

I still don't care about performances as long as we win. I don't care about performances because I don't expect Mancini to implement his ideas/style etc mid-season without some pain. Just as Rafa is battling it out to get results I expect Mancini to do the same. If Mancini doesn't get results then he will be gone anyway so arguing the toss over performances is a bit pointless. Especially when we are arguing the toss over performances when we have won games - I'll exclude todays game because I have yet to have the pleasure :)

[sidSmith]

What other positives can we draw from our performances in recent times?

Played 4 won 2, drew 1, lost 1

I still don't care about performances as long as we win. I don't care about performances because I don't expect Mancini to implement his ideas/style etc mid-season without some pain. Just as Rafa is battling it out to get results I expect Mancini to do the same. If Mancini doesn't get results then he will be gone anyway so arguing the toss over performances is a bit pointless. Especially when we are arguing the toss over performances when we have won games - I'll exclude todays game because I have yet to have the pleasure :)

After you've had the pleasure of today's game let me know that you don't care about performances ;o) Actually, we looked alright for the first 15 mins or so.

Ok, I do care about performance, style, creativity, flair, tactics and results. You're right about the cold hard facts, W4, D1, L1 and sometimes I lose sight of this as the performances are utter gash. What do you think Mancini's long term strategy is in terms of performance? It feels like we're at the beginning of an era where only the result matters.

You're not wrong about it being painful either.....

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Simply, is it the players or is it the management?

If it's the players what do you think we should do?

If it's the manager what do you think we should do?

Justing pointing finger isn't very constructive. You have to be able to offer solution.

I wont point Antti i will say its the manager he is Italian and he is negative thats why the last few games have been purgatory to watch.

Ancellotti and Cappello don't seem to be having too many troubles though. That said, performance today was shite and there's no two ways about it. Still, as long as we are on the run for fourth and in FA cup it would be ridiculous to point finger at either really. No one should expecting us to win every game as that's not what is needed to achieve our aims.

Quality of football is another argument though.

Do you think you're clutching at straws by pointing out the positives that we're still in the cup and in the race for 4th? These are the things I point out to people but I must admit it's coming out more and more through gritted teeth after each game.

What other positives can we draw from our performances in recent times?

well the positives are obviously that results are still there. I was anticipating us losing to Everton and rags at Swamp was always going to be tough tie. Hull loss was a real shock to the system though and send a worrying message. Tonight we were shite again but are still in competition where we were last season kicked out by Forest so at least there's some improvement in longer term.

It's the performances that are the worry really. I do feel that we are in stage where we are taking that step backwards in order to move forward. Whether I'm right remains to be seen but every club go through rough spell at some stage with their new manager. Whether we will bounce back will tell us whether Mancini has what it takes.

[sidSmith]

well the positives are obviously that results are still there. I was anticipating us losing to Everton and rags at Swamp was always going to be tough tie. Hull loss was a real shock to the system though and send a worrying message. Tonight we were shite again but are still in competition where we were last season kicked out by Forest so at least there's some improvement in longer term.

It's the performances that are the worry really. I do feel that we are in stage where we are taking that step backwards in order to move forward. Whether I'm right remains to be seen but every club go through rough spell at some stage with their new manager. Whether we will bounce back will tell us whether Mancini has what it takes.

I agree with this but the step back and pain we're going through is a bit excessive considering we've spent what we have! What was so bad under Hughes that we needed to strip the fucking lot back and start again to this extent?

[viking the Odd]

What we should do is simple, Sack the manager,and get a real one, I'm sure it's not that hard a job to do any better than our current one, there must be someone half decent to give it a go.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

well the positives are obviously that results are still there. I was anticipating us losing to Everton and rags at Swamp was always going to be tough tie. Hull loss was a real shock to the system though and send a worrying message. Tonight we were shite again but are still in competition where we were last season kicked out by Forest so at least there's some improvement in longer term.

It's the performances that are the worry really. I do feel that we are in stage where we are taking that step backwards in order to move forward. Whether I'm right remains to be seen but every club go through rough spell at some stage with their new manager. Whether we will bounce back will tell us whether Mancini has what it takes.

I agree with this but the step back and pain we're going through is a bit excessive considering we've spent what we have! What was so bad under Hughes that we needed to strip the fucking lot back and start again to this extent?

the way I see it is that Mancini simply don't trust our defenders and are setting up the midfield to cover for them. I think in summer we will see at least one top quality centerback and one top fullback arrive. I also believe that 4-3-3 isn't his preferred system and there will be attacking midfielders arriving.

Truth is that we were conceding loads of cheap goals under Hughes and that has basically been erased completely. So in a way it's working. That leads to overly cautious approach though. That said, we basically had all our best fit attacking players out there today so can't really be everlycritical about his selection either.

For me it's the roles of individual players that need honing in short term to improve our performances. We have players like De Jong, while good at defending, offering absolutely nothing going forward. It's funny how people criticise attacking players who don't defend like Petrov but defensive players who don't do any attacking don't get any blame. Also it's vital for us that Barry finds his form again. It's constantly said that he is a defensive midfielder but he was box-to-box midfielder for Villa and needs to do that for us as well.

Also, apart from 10 minutes in the start of the second half we had wingers playing on their natural positions, something which people were asking all last week. Yet Petrov was ineffective again.

[sidSmith]

well the positives are obviously that results are still there. I was anticipating us losing to Everton and rags at Swamp was always going to be tough tie. Hull loss was a real shock to the system though and send a worrying message. Tonight we were shite again but are still in competition where we were last season kicked out by Forest so at least there's some improvement in longer term.

It's the performances that are the worry really. I do feel that we are in stage where we are taking that step backwards in order to move forward. Whether I'm right remains to be seen but every club go through rough spell at some stage with their new manager. Whether we will bounce back will tell us whether Mancini has what it takes.

I agree with this but the step back and pain we're going through is a bit excessive considering we've spent what we have! What was so bad under Hughes that we needed to strip the fucking lot back and start again to this extent?

the way I see it is that Mancini simply don't trust our defenders and are setting up the midfield to cover for them. I think in summer we will see at least one top quality centerback and one top fullback arrive. I also believe that 4-3-3 isn't his preferred system and there will be attacking midfielders arriving.

Truth is that we were conceding loads of cheap goals under Hughes and that has basically been erased completely. So in a way it's working. That leads to overly cautious approach though. That said, we basically had all our best fit attacking players out there today so can't really be everlycritical about his selection either.

For me it's the roles of individual players that need honing in short term to improve our performances. We have players like De Jong, while good at defending, offering absolutely nothing going forward. It's funny how people criticise attacking players who don't defend like Petrov but defensive players who don't do any attacking don't get any blame. Also it's vital for us that Barry finds his form again. It's constantly said that he is a defensive midfielder but he was box-to-box midfielder for Villa and needs to do that for us as well.

Also, apart from 10 minutes in the start of the second half we had wingers playing on their natural positions, something which people were asking all last week. Yet Petrov was ineffective again.

To be fair that is what DeJong is good at. He's never been any different, so if he gets picked that must be what the manager wants as he offers nothing else. I was glad to see wingers in their natural positions for a change today too if nothing else Petrov provided an outlet and could take the fullback on the outside.

The way we're playing feels like we're missing a whole lot more than a centre back, a full back and a creative midfielder! By protecting the back 4 like this we seem so easy to work out and even though his selection today can't be criticised we still looked completely lacking in options going forward.

[Mark Garrett]

It's both because neither the majority of the team has been here for longer than 12 months, save for Ireland, Richards and Shauny, and the managment have been brought in only 2 months ago in the busiest part of the season.

The solution: Time and patience. If there isn't either of these things then we'll keep going round in circles and continue to be unsuccessful no matter how many players are brought in and money spent.

[BobKowalski]

It's both because neither the majority of the team has been here for longer than 12 months, save for Ireland, Richards and Shauny, and the managment have been brought in only 2 months ago in the busiest part of the season.

The solution: Time and patience. If there isn't either of these things then we'll keep going round in circles and continue to be unsuccessful no matter how many players are brought in and money spent.

So how far do you think you will get with your 'state the bleeding obvious' approach?

[Mark Garrett]

It's both because neither the majority of the team has been here for longer than 12 months, save for Ireland, Richards and Shauny, and the managment have been brought in only 2 months ago in the busiest part of the season.

The solution: Time and patience. If there isn't either of these things then we'll keep going round in circles and continue to be unsuccessful no matter how many players are brought in and money spent.

So how far do you think you will get with your 'state the bleeding obvious' approach?

But it is though isn't it Bob?? We have to stick with a manager, all the most successful clubs have done it.

Chelsea in recent years have been a slight exception but then again, they have the same squad virtually as when Jose was in charge. So at least the dressing room personnel has largely been consistent. We just lurch from one more upheaval to another. So yes my 'state the bleeding obvious approach' as you put it will work fine if the club as a whole - thats fans and the owners go with it and we stick to it and not backtrack on what we've said i.e. Thaksin saying top 10 - Sven finishes in top 10 yet we sack him. The current hierarchy saying finish top 6, we are 6 at xmas and Hughes is sacked