Pompey

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Spot on Ted. And it's not right!

[avoidconfusion]

Pompey have been denied to sell their players outside the window by the way. That's it fellas get ready for a 6 point deduction.

[Im_Spartacus]

Pompey have been denied to sell their players outside the window by the way. That's it fellas get ready for a 6 point deduction.

Have we had it confirmed anyway that this is what would happen?

I dont understand how it can be deemed fair and equitable that results can retrospectively be removed, although I can understand the logic that 3 points can be awarded for fixtures yet to be played.

It applies to different teams differently, but imagine we lost 6 points, which allowed Liverpool to finish 4th. By barring our entry to the champs league, it is not just a question of the lost income, but a question of the financial rules which will then apply the following season, which could bar our entry to European Competition due to the income lost in the previous season.

On the other hand, if we finished 4th, there would be qualifying rounds to negotiate and there is no guarantee we would even make it to the group stage, thus what would we actually be claiming for from the law suit which would inevitably follow?

Looking at the teams facing relegation, the financial effects of relegation more often than not seem to end in administration for the club involved due to the loss of the £40m income - this would be particularly acute for a team like say Sunderland who realistically should not have otherwise been dragged into the relegation scrap so would never have realistically planned financially for the "what if" of relegation.

[avoidconfusion]

Rule 29 in the Premier League Rulebook states that that is what will happen yea.

29. If any Club ceases during the Season to be a member of the League, the record of the League
Matches in which it has participated that Season shall be expunged from the table and the
number of Clubs to be relegated at the end of that Season shall be reduced so as to maintain
at 20 (or, if less, as near thereto as may be) the number of Clubs in membership of the League
at the beginning of the next Season.

[Im_Spartacus]

Rule 29 in the Premier League Rulebook states that that is what will happen yea.

29. If any Club ceases during the Season to be a member of the League, the record of the League
Matches in which it has participated that Season shall be expunged from the table and the
number of Clubs to be relegated at the end of that Season shall be reduced so as to maintain
at 20 (or, if less, as near thereto as may be) the number of Clubs in membership of the League
at the beginning of the next Season.

Cheers mate. Cue can of worms, looks like a rule that was not very well thought out as it perhaps was never something that anyone expected to happen.

Talks of another takeover have surfaced this morning, fingers crossed

[avoidconfusion]

Part of me thinks they simply cannot do this this late into the season. From what I understand Pompey could get wound up in March at the earliest... that's like 2 months before the season is over anyway and they would have what... 10 games left to play at most?

This would fuck so many teams over. City, United, Arsenal... and let's not even get started with the Relegation zone.

I really hope they will not enforce this rule or they will allow Pompey to keep playing until the end of the season but the Cynic in me tells me that this exactly what will happen.

Pompey will get wound up with about 8 games to go in the season and we will drop from 4th to 6th or something. Typical City that would be.

[Im_Spartacus]

Part of me thinks they simply cannot do this this late into the season. From what I understand Pompey could get wound up in March at the earliest... that's like 2 months before the season is over anyway and they would have what... 10 games left to play at most?

This would fuck so many teams over. City, U***d, Arsenal... and let's not even get started with the Relegation zone.

I really hope they will not enforce this rule or they will allow Pompey to keep playing until the end of the season but the Cynic in me tells me that this exactly what will happen.

Pompey will get wound up with about 8 games to go in the season and we will drop from 4th to 6th or something. Typical City that would be.

Only Stoke, Wigan, Burnley and Liverpool would really benefit

Liverpool are due to play Pompey in March, so whilst it is true that we would lose 6 points, Liverpool will potentially also lose 3 points, or the possibility of earning 3 points, so we have to look at the gap between us and Liverpool needing to be 3 to stay on parity.

We got to get wins against Liverpool and spuds, no excuses. We should ride out the turmoil and will probably be in a much better position than we are today.

[avoidconfusion]

Well Pompey could also beat Liverpool. You never know. :)

[Beefymcfc]

Listening to Talkshite yesterday, and they mentioned that the new Hammers Chairman, Gold I think, was going to offer Pompey enough money to see them through the season, through the Premier League and FA, to guarantee their own position.

[Im_Spartacus]

Listening to Talkshite yesterday, and they mentioned that the new Hammers Chairman, Gold I think, was going to offer Pompey enough money to see them through the season, through the Premier League and FA, to guarantee their own position.

He'd look a right tit if they went down anyway!

Lot to be said for it though, would certainly be in our interests to throw a few quid in too, especially if the next couple of weeks go pear shaped and we cant establish a good gap above Liverpool

Problem is that HMRC will not be too interested in what other clubs losses would be. They are being super aggressive in this case and would possibly block the move because any further revenue Pompey earn will simply increase the tax bill when it eventually falls due. Its ok covering the operating costs, but tax isnt an operating cost and as the creditor applying for the winding up order, I cant see them accepting such a deal when they have no realistic likelihood of Pompey settling the bill.

It is believed that Pompey are technically insolvent anyway at this point which is why HMRC are knocking on the door because the assets of the club are not sufficient to repay the liabilities, a situation that will only deteriorate as creditors add interest between now and the end of the season

[Beefymcfc]

Listening to Talkshite yesterday, and they mentioned that the new Hammers Chairman, Gold I think, was going to offer Pompey enough money to see them through the season, through the Premier League and FA, to guarantee their own position.

He'd look a right tit if they went down anyway!

Lot to be said for it though, would certainly be in our interests to throw a few quid in too, especially if the next couple of weeks go pear shaped and we cant establish a good gap above Liverpool

Problem is that HMRC will not be too interested in what other clubs losses would be. They are being super aggressive in this case and would possibly block the move because any further revenue Pompey earn will simply increase the tax bill when it eventually falls due. Its ok covering the operating costs, but tax isnt an operating cost and as the creditor applying for the winding up order, I cant see them accepting such a deal when they have no realistic likelihood of Pompey settling the bill.

It is believed that Pompey are technically insolvent anyway at this point which is why HMRC are knocking on the door because the assets of the club are not sufficient to repay the liabilities, a situation that will only deteriorate as creditors add interest between now and the end of the season

So, what you're saying is that in reality we aren't playing tomorrow for fourth place, rather 6th!

[avoidconfusion]

Is that even allowed tho? Can we just loan them money? If so, it certainly would be in the Sheik's best interest cause this could cost us 4th.

[Im_Spartacus]

Listening to Talkshite yesterday, and they mentioned that the new Hammers Chairman, Gold I think, was going to offer Pompey enough money to see them through the season, through the Premier League and FA, to guarantee their own position.

He'd look a right tit if they went down anyway!

Lot to be said for it though, would certainly be in our interests to throw a few quid in too, especially if the next couple of weeks go pear shaped and we cant establish a good gap above Liverpool

Problem is that HMRC will not be too interested in what other clubs losses would be. They are being super aggressive in this case and would possibly block the move because any further revenue Pompey earn will simply increase the tax bill when it eventually falls due. Its ok covering the operating costs, but tax isnt an operating cost and as the creditor applying for the winding up order, I cant see them accepting such a deal when they have no realistic likelihood of Pompey settling the bill.

It is believed that Pompey are technically insolvent anyway at this point which is why HMRC are knocking on the door because the assets of the club are not sufficient to repay the liabilities, a situation that will only deteriorate as creditors add interest between now and the end of the season

So, what you're saying is that in reality we aren't playing tomorrow for fourth place, rather 6th!

If Pompey went out of business tomorrow and the results were expunged, the importance of beating Liverpool and spurs really can't be overstated. Below assume that assuming both spurs and villa win this weekend.

If we lose, worst case scenario the table would look like this
4. Liverpool........Played 26..........Points 47
5. Tottenham......Played 26..........Points 43
6. Villa..............Played 25..........Points 42
7. City..............Played 24..........Points 39

If we beat Liverpool
4. Liverpool........Played 26..........Points 44
5. Tottenham......Played 26..........Points 43
6. City..............Played 24..........Points 42
7. Villa..............Played 25..........Points 42

The good news is that we would effectively get an extra game in hand on all the teams around us, as they lose the opportunity to take 3 points from Pompey. But lose tomorrow and it looks a bit gloomy

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

You would in effect expect Scouse to beat Pompey at home, effectively making a three point swing in Liverpool's favour between us and them. We'll just have to beat them and finish three points in front of them. However, I still believe that the Premier League will pull out the stops to prevent one of it's members going bust mid season. It certainly tarnishes it's reputation as the league where all the gold in the world can be found.

[Im_Spartacus]

You would in effect expect Scouse to beat Pompey at home, effectively making a three point swing in Liverpool's favour between us and them. We'll just have to beat them and finish three points in front of them. However, I still believe that the Premier League will pull out the stops to prevent one of it's members going bust mid season. It certainly tarnishes it's reputation as the league where all the gold in the world can be found.

Its the premier league who have refused to sanction the player sales though, which is a worrying development

I might be wrong, but isnt the Premier League board a committee of chairmen, all of whom have different interests. I am sure that most chairmen, particularly those who have dropped points to pompey wouldnt shed a tear for Pompey going out of business, Wenger said as much yesterday so its pretty clear what arsenal's line on the request was.

As bad as Pompey are, there are only us the rags and Chelsea I think who have taken maximum points, so we are in a minority.

[john68]

As a football idealist like you Piccs, I would love to agree with your earlier post that was sympathetic towards Pompey but I am of the opinion their failure was their own doing and they have to take full reponsibility for their financial failure.

They obviously knew what the score was, what their income streams were and how much they had to spend on players. Some clubs live within their means and become relegated as a consequence. Pompey bought their success with cash they hadn't got.

They knew what the score was.

[avoidconfusion]

Its the premier league who have refused to sanction the player sales though, which is a worrying development

In fairness, that is a FIFA rule not the Premier League rule isn't it?

[Beefymcfc]

As a football idealist like you Piccs, I would love to agree with your earlier post that was sympathetic towards Pompey but I am of the opinion their failure was their own doing and they have to take full reponsibility for their financial failure.

They obviously knew what the score was, what their income streams were and how much they had to spend on players. Some clubs live within their means and become relegated as a consequence. Pompey bought their success with cash they hadn't got.

They knew what the score was.

That may be true big man, but I still blame Twitchy!

Anyone know the score to whether another club can loan them money, as in the 'Gold' situation I mentioned earlier?

[john68]

As a football idealist like you Piccs, I would love to agree with your earlier post that was sympathetic towards Pompey but I am of the opinion their failure was their own doing and they have to take full reponsibility for their financial failure.

They obviously knew what the score was, what their income streams were and how much they had to spend on players. Some clubs live within their means and become relegated as a consequence. Pompey bought their success with cash they hadn't got.

They knew what the score was.

That may be true big man, but I still blame Twitchy!

Anyone know the score to whether another club can loan them money, as in the 'Gold' situation I mentioned earlier?

As much as I don't like Twitchy, it was his job to build the best team he could...Who was above him that should have said "Sorry Twitchy, we can't afford this or that player?"

[Beefymcfc]

As a football idealist like you Piccs, I would love to agree with your earlier post that was sympathetic towards Pompey but I am of the opinion their failure was their own doing and they have to take full reponsibility for their financial failure.

They obviously knew what the score was, what their income streams were and how much they had to spend on players. Some clubs live within their means and become relegated as a consequence. Pompey bought their success with cash they hadn't got.

They knew what the score was.

That may be true big man, but I still blame Twitchy!

Anyone know the score to whether another club can loan them money, as in the 'Gold' situation I mentioned earlier?

As much as I don't like Twitchy, it was his job to build the best team he could...Who was above him that should have said "Sorry Twitchy, we can't afford this or that player?"

You seem to be missing my point John, it is Twitchy's fault!

PS. Is that what they called him at Pompey as well?