Perspective after Chelsea game

[gillie]

I am absolutely overjoyed at todays result and very encouraging 2nd half display i hope Bobby plays with the same attacking emphasis in our next game if he does i think we may well be onto something with him.For the moment great day today but i am still unsure.

[Colin the King]

I'm still buzzing after the win and attacking football we showed in the second half :-)

Perspective tells me that Mancini has the whodoo over Ancelotti when you compare their head to head records. It was a very italian style match for the premiership and Mancini knew how to play against that set-up (a team that plays with no width whats-so-ever).

Mancini struggles against teams that play wide and cross into the box often, the traditional English way.

Just to pick up on this, have you noticed/what do you think of our tendency to have the full backs deployed so centrally when we're defending? On one hand, it makes it more difficult for the opponent to get a clean shot at goal or make a meaningful run into the box, but when it comes to wing play we put very few obstacles in place. It's like having five central defenders in defensive mode and they only become full backs when we're attacking.

As you say it was effective against Chelsea but I can think of instances where it wouldn't be. I still have trouble sleeping at night when I think of that Semi-Final- the ball constantly being sprayed across to Valencia, who had about 20 yards all to himself to make a decision while Garrido stood on the edge of the 18 yard box.

[john68]

In the words of Mancini..."Een Eetalee, ees normal."
The idea is to defend the area and invite opponents to shoot from outside the area, The challenge being that the goalkeeper should be trusted to save the longer shots.
Personally, I don't feel comfortable with it...far too risky with our defence who fell foul too easily to the Stoke strategy. It does little to keep my heart rate from bouncing up too.

With Tevez, Bellamy, SWP, Johnson and even Petrov running at opponents, I think we are neglecting the strength that can put onto the field to be more positive.
I just hope that Mancini has learnt something from the Chelsea win and we see a change in mentality.

[Ted Hughes]

I'm not sure what's supposed to happen re the fullbacks in that system as I've seen Italian games where they stay together in all circumstances but I've also seen games where the fullback comes out as the ball goes wide. It's possibly a timing thing that we haven't mastered yet; the fullback is supposed to come out but not until the very moment the ball is played wide, so his starting position & that of the four has to be just right or he can't get there?

An area which has concerened me, under both managers, is round about 5-10 yards of the 'D' on the edge of the box. From set pieces, crosses, whatever, we seem to battle for the ball in the box but if it breaks to the edge, we are always outnumbered there by the opposition. I thought Vieira had been brought in to solve that but he's not been there when he's played & it's actually become worse under Mancini.

Don't know why it happens but it does & Lampard should have scored from there yesterday. Something we have to deal with imo.

[john@staustell]

Remains to be seen whether it's 'same old City'. As I've said before I really believe that the way those teams are currently playing, Everton, Hull (at their place) and Stoke will turn out to be three of our hardest games, as born out by some of their other games recently.

Despite some of this 'worst since Alan Ball' nonsense last week, the first half against Stoke we outplayed them , as Bobby said. Then we got unlucky.

So I truly hope a string of games now against less 'aggressive' teams will reap dividends.

One thing that has been noticeable is that we seem to pass to our own players quite a lot now, and control the ball well. Simple but true. Also players who have suffered vitriolic attacks (Lescott, Barry) are standing very tall.

Remember we dont have to win every game, we just have to show more consistency than 3 inconsistent teams - Spuds, Villa and Scouse1.

[zuricity]

Well we can't be the same old city. We must be doing something right , we're in fourth place with a three point advantage and a game in hand.

[Trautmann]

Just back from a day long trip having spent the last three weeks in Mexico...vast quantities of tequila etc. What a roller coaster over the last three weeks!!!! How can we lose to Stoke and run right over Chelsea? What made the difference? Did Stoke kick us around?? Did Adie lose it from being kicked around?

Overall...sheer joy....we saw what this squad is capable of, and we are in 4th with a game in hand over the top three. This is sweetness. Now...where's the duty free hooch?...i gotta celebrate....this is too much.....

[mr_nool]

It's good but it's only the start, and this is the same outfit so villified recently. But it should serve to temper a little of the amazing hysteria we have had here in the last week. I never like to attack fellow posters or disrespect opinions, but this last week has made me despair about some of the rubbish I've read. Some should hang their heads.

Now Mancini is here, like it or not. So for goodness sake lets get behind the lads, stop attacking them and the manager, and make a real drive for fourth. We have a fortnights rest now to get ourselves together and get everyone fit.

AND GO FOR IT.

This ... my concern is that we seem to raise the bar for these games and that the dire stuff returns next, still enjoy the moment i SAY

This could be a turning point though if Mancini keeps pushing them to break forward with more purpose. I thought it could before the game & I think so even more now. I just wish we had a game straight away to keep the momentum going so it doesn't wear off after all the wanky international friendlies.

That's what I thought after Chelsea at home as well... Better luck this time, I guess.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

It's good but it's only the start, and this is the same outfit so villified recently. But it should serve to temper a little of the amazing hysteria we have had here in the last week. I never like to attack fellow posters or disrespect opinions, but this last week has made me despair about some of the rubbish I've read. Some should hang their heads.

Now Mancini is here, like it or not. So for goodness sake lets get behind the lads, stop attacking them and the manager, and make a real drive for fourth. We have a fortnights rest now to get ourselves together and get everyone fit.

AND GO FOR IT.

It was so bad after the Stoke game I stayed away for a few days... now I'm back to gloat :-)

After the Stoke game I noticed there were about 400 members logged on. Today it was far less. That shows how people love to come out of the woodwork and havve a good moan.

It's been like that always. ALL our visitor records have been after game lost.

Match thread for Stoke loss was about 25 pages long, Chelsea away win it was 13 pages. That's the way it is.

Personally I stayed away last night first time for a very long time after a game. Rather celebrated by myself than come here and see people picking holes from what was just about as perfect game for me as any. Real marque game for Mancini as well.

[King Kev]

After the Stoke game I noticed there were about 400 members logged on. Today it was far less. That shows how people love to come out of the woodwork and havve a good moan.

This is something I have noticed too, it's nothing new to this site, in fact I remember a few years ago posting that when we win something this site will be dead as people will have nothing to moan about!

You may also notice that the same people who stay away from this site are here straight away when something goes wrong. Strange but true.

[Mr Miyagi]

Just to pick up on this, have you noticed/what do you think of our tendency to have the full backs deployed so centrally when we're defending? On one hand, it makes it more difficult for the opponent to get a clean shot at goal or make a meaningful run into the box, but when it comes to wing play we put very few obstacles in place. It's like having five central defenders in defensive mode and they only become full backs when we're attacking.

As you say it was effective against Chelsea but I can think of instances where it wouldn't be. I still have trouble sleeping at night when I think of that Semi-Final- the ball constantly being sprayed across to Valencia, who had about 20 yards all to himself to make a decision while Garrido stood on the edge of the 18 yard box.

There is nothing wrong with a tight back four. What they are supposed to do is slide across the pitch as a unit. The fullback can press out wide, but the other three are meant to keep their distance. Same with the midfielders in front. The theory is that even if the opposition do try and switch play the slide to the other flank can happen while the ball is in the air. But it takes a lot of organisation to do that. Perhaps Mancini is not confident enough yet and is telling them not to bother sliding across the pitch as much. All those players keeping a perfect box shape between them takes a lot of work. We have also suffered from lots of personnel changes in defence which makes the system more difficult.

There is no problem with conceding space out wide and letting the opposition put crosses in when you have central defenders and more importantly a goalkeeper who can deal with any kind of aerial threat....oh shit.....

[Socrates]

Yesterday showed us how completely reliant we currently are on Tevez. His return was the difference. We will continue to struggle a little whenever he is missing as we still have a lack of effective central attacking midfield options. Unless Ireland returns to form as well as fitness we will continue to see ineffective midfielders pressing forward and Mancini compensating by regularly switching wingers so they can switch inside. We don't have a Michael Johnson type player either - someone who will surge forward with the ball through the midfield areas. You can manage without one or the other type of player but without both you get the difficult to watch football we have been seeing and an absolute reliance on Tevez to make things happen in those central areas.

[Ted Hughes]

Just to pick up on this, have you noticed/what do you think of our tendency to have the full backs deployed so centrally when we're defending? On one hand, it makes it more difficult for the opponent to get a clean shot at goal or make a meaningful run into the box, but when it comes to wing play we put very few obstacles in place. It's like having five central defenders in defensive mode and they only become full backs when we're attacking.

As you say it was effective against Chelsea but I can think of instances where it wouldn't be. I still have trouble sleeping at night when I think of that Semi-Final- the ball constantly being sprayed across to Valencia, who had about 20 yards all to himself to make a decision while Garrido stood on the edge of the 18 yard box.

There is nothing wrong with a tight back four. What they are supposed to do is slide across the pitch as a unit. The fullback can press out wide, but the other three are meant to keep their distance. Same with the midfielders in front. The theory is that even if the opposition do try and switch play the slide to the other flank can happen while the ball is in the air. But it takes a lot of organisation to do that. Perhaps Mancini is not confident enough yet and is telling them not to bother sliding across the pitch as much. All those players keeping a perfect box shape between them takes a lot of work. We have also suffered from lots of personnel changes in defence which makes the system more difficult.

There is no problem with conceding space out wide and letting the opposition put crosses in when you have central defenders and more importantly a goalkeeper who can deal with any kind of aerial threat....oh shit.....

The rags often put it straight along the deck as well & score against us both ways.

[Ted Hughes]

Yesterday showed us how completely reliant we currently are on Tevez. His return was the difference. We will continue to struggle a little whenever he is missing as we still have a lack of effective central attacking midfield options. Unless Ireland returns to form as well as fitness we will continue to see ineffective midfielders pressing forward and Mancini compensating by regularly switching wingers so they can switch inside. We don't have a Michael Johnson type player either - someone who will surge forward with the ball through the midfield areas. You can manage without one or the other type of player but without both you get the difficult to watch football we have been seeing and an absolute reliance on Tevez to make things happen in those central areas.

Some players have the talent AND the mentality to play at the very top. Obviously Tevez does & surprisingly Bellamy has shown that he does too but although there's talent in most of the other players, there's still a question mark about how many have the mentality to produce it regularly when it matters.

We need our strongest team to be full of such players in the long run, if we're to reach the level we all hope for.

[Original Dub]

It's good but it's only the start, and this is the same outfit so villified recently. But it should serve to temper a little of the amazing hysteria we have had here in the last week. I never like to attack fellow posters or disrespect opinions, but this last week has made me despair about some of the rubbish I've read. Some should hang their heads.

Now Mancini is here, like it or not. So for goodness sake lets get behind the lads, stop attacking them and the manager, and make a real drive for fourth. We have a fortnights rest now to get ourselves together and get everyone fit.

AND GO FOR IT.

It was so bad after the Stoke game I stayed away for a few days... now I'm back to gloat :-)

After the Stoke game I noticed there were about 400 members logged on. Today it was far less. That shows how people love to come out of the woodwork and havve a good moan.

It's been like that always. ALL our visitor records have been after game lost.

Match thread for Stoke loss was about 25 pages long, Chelsea away win it was 13 pages. That's the way it is.

Personally I stayed away last night first time for a very long time after a game. Rather celebrated by myself than come here and see people picking holes from what was just about as perfect game for me as any. Real marque game for Mancini as well.

Exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcellent