England v Egypt

[Ted Hughes]

Walcott has had it all served up on a plate for too long. An orginal 'this boy will be good' media product, he was obviously snapped up by Arsenal for what is looking increasingly like daft money.

In one of the most bizarre England managerial decisions of all time he was taken to the World Cup (yes FOUR years back) in an England squad short of strikers, without any intention of ever playing him, despite Shrek's injury. Has he some hold over the FA?

Despite all this crazy indulgence the only glowing spot in a sea of mediocrity was his hat trick against Croatia. How he ever gets game at Arsenal is a mystery due to his poor form and injuries, and he confirmed this status last night by failing to find anyone in a red shirt with the ball until his merciful substitution.

Any inclusion of him in SA will be more in hope than expectation, he's had four years FFS, and still cant do it!

Soon he will be confined to the dark realms of nearly-was-a-superstar, along with Mr D Sturridge. To roam from bar to street to bookie for the rest of his days, intertwined with the odd appearance on Soccer Saturday.

Injuries have been the key to that though. It seems too be a theme which runs through most of our young 'stars' ; fantastic promise, international football, injuries, usually along with celebrity & mediocrity.

Coincidentally this very second they're talking ont radio about our U21's being completely outclassed by GREECE last night.

Edit: Sturridge played.

[Rag_hater]

GazBaz played well you say. Can you tell me why? Was his role different to City's? Was it the players around him? Analysis please.

International football imo is a slow, shit, sub standard, imitation of PL or some Champ's lg football where players have more time to play against less physical & less organised sides, so it suits a player like Barry who has a much easier job making interceptions & distributing the ball than he would on a small pitch with 4 Stoke or Everton players mowing him over & exposing his weaknesses.

On the other hand Lampard for instance doesn't have the Chelsea machine to help him or Drogba to aim at & Rooney gets nothing like the service, support or running off the ball that he'd get from the rags players, so it sometimes makes their job harder.

I find it a bit strange you think International football is so rubbish.
I'd fancy the Spanish,Brazillian or Dutch to beat the teams in La Liga or the Prem or win the CL so I dont think it is as bad as you say.

[Original Dub]

GazBaz played well you say. Can you tell me why? Was his role different to City's? Was it the players around him? Analysis please.

International football imo is a slow, shit, sub standard, imitation of PL or some Champ's lg football where players have more time to play against less physical & less organised sides, so it suits a player like Barry who has a much easier job making interceptions & distributing the ball than he would on a small pitch with 4 Stoke or Everton players mowing him over & exposing his weaknesses.

On the other hand Lampard for instance doesn't have the Chelsea machine to help him or Drogba to aim at & Rooney gets nothing like the service, support or running off the ball that he'd get from the rags players, so it sometimes makes their job harder.

I find it a bit strange you think International football is so rubbish.
I'd fancy the Spanish,Brazillian or Dutch to beat the teams in La Liga or the Prem or win the CL so I dont think it is as bad as you say.

It is a rarity that players can be born into a better team than one which can be bought from all over the world.

Not impossible, but rare. And I agree with Ted, because I think he meant that as a general rule in recent times, club level is of a better ilk than international level.

[Im_Spartacus]

GazBaz played well you say. Can you tell me why? Was his role different to City's? Was it the players around him? Analysis please.

International football imo is a slow, shit, sub standard, imitation of PL or some Champ's lg football where players have more time to play against less physical & less organised sides, so it suits a player like Barry who has a much easier job making interceptions & distributing the ball than he would on a small pitch with 4 Stoke or Everton players mowing him over & exposing his weaknesses.

On the other hand Lampard for instance doesn't have the Chelsea machine to help him or Drogba to aim at & Rooney gets nothing like the service, support or running off the ball that he'd get from the rags players, so it sometimes makes their job harder.

I find it a bit strange you think International football is so rubbish.
I'd fancy the Spanish,Brazillian or Dutch to beat the teams in La Liga or the Prem or win the CL so I dont think it is as bad as you say.

I'm not too sure mate. For example at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea to name a few you have THE best players from THE best countries who play together all the time. In Brazil, you only have the best players from Brazil who come together a few times a year to play football against some quite poor teams. Any La Liga / Premier League team not only play against top quality most weeks, they have a method of doing so drilled by weeks and weeks and months and months of training and drills. International football will never replicate that.

Clubs are critically able to do one thing that national sides are restricted from doing, and that is cure an inherent weakness which may be a trait of the nation, or just be a coincidence of what area of the pitch you are thin on the ground for talent in for that particular generation - eg, Brazilian goalkeepers have always been comparatively poor, a top club would just go out and buy a Cech, a Buffon.

Look at England now, after this world cup we could see Terry, Weo and Cashley retire - what do we do then, we dont have any top quality coming through so we have to use backups, who werent good enough in the first place. A Barcelona, Chelsea, or even City would just go and spend £50m replacing them with the best players in the world in those positions.

If any country, maybe with the exception of Spain currently tried playing against a top league side in a competetive game, they would lose by several goals.

[Rag_hater]

GazBaz played well you say. Can you tell me why? Was his role different to City's? Was it the players around him? Analysis please.

International football imo is a slow, shit, sub standard, imitation of PL or some Champ's lg football where players have more time to play against less physical & less organised sides, so it suits a player like Barry who has a much easier job making interceptions & distributing the ball than he would on a small pitch with 4 Stoke or Everton players mowing him over & exposing his weaknesses.

On the other hand Lampard for instance doesn't have the Chelsea machine to help him or Drogba to aim at & Rooney gets nothing like the service, support or running off the ball that he'd get from the rags players, so it sometimes makes their job harder.

I find it a bit strange you think International football is so rubbish.
I'd fancy the Spanish,Brazillian or Dutch to beat the teams in La Liga or the Prem or win the CL so I dont think it is as bad as you say.

I'm not too sure mate. For example at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea to name a few you have THE best players from THE best countries who play together all the time. In Brazil, you only have the best players from Brazil who come together a few times a year to play football against some quite poor teams. Any La Liga / Premier League team not only play against top quality most weeks, they have a method of doing so drilled by weeks and weeks and months and months of training and drills. International football will never replicate that.

Clubs are critically able to do one thing that national sides are restricted from doing, and that is cure an inherent weakness which may be a trait of the nation, or just be a coincidence of what area of the pitch you are thin on the ground for talent in for that particular generation - eg, Brazilian goalkeepers have always been comparatively poor, a top club would just go out and buy a Cech, a Buffon.

Look at England now, after this world cup we could see Terry, Weo and Cashley retire - what do we do then, we dont have any top quality coming through so we have to use backups, who werent good enough in the first place. A Barcelona, Chelsea, or even City would just go and spend £50m replacing them with the best players in the world in those positions.

If any country, maybe with the exception of Spain currently tried playing against a top league side in a competetive game, they would lose by several goals.

What you say is probably right.But the fact that teams such as Chelski etc... dont have the best players in every position says to me that its never the case A side can never buy the best for all positions and therefore be the best.Lets say Messi,Tranny and Villa are the best players in the world at the moment in their positions.None of them are at Chelski or even at the same clubs.
Also the fact that the players in these top Euro teams are only a small part of a team that normally wins the WC suggests that the top Euro teams are not at the standard of a top class International teams.
Lets say the Germans,Italians and Brazillians are the most successful international teams.Teams made up with players from the other top Euro leagues such as Spain and the Prem are not able to beat International teams with players from lesser leagues.

[Im_Spartacus]

GazBaz played well you say. Can you tell me why? Was his role different to City's? Was it the players around him? Analysis please.

International football imo is a slow, shit, sub standard, imitation of PL or some Champ's lg football where players have more time to play against less physical & less organised sides, so it suits a player like Barry who has a much easier job making interceptions & distributing the ball than he would on a small pitch with 4 Stoke or Everton players mowing him over & exposing his weaknesses.

On the other hand Lampard for instance doesn't have the Chelsea machine to help him or Drogba to aim at & Rooney gets nothing like the service, support or running off the ball that he'd get from the rags players, so it sometimes makes their job harder.

I find it a bit strange you think International football is so rubbish.
I'd fancy the Spanish,Brazillian or Dutch to beat the teams in La Liga or the Prem or win the CL so I dont think it is as bad as you say.

I'm not too sure mate. For example at Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea to name a few you have THE best players from THE best countries who play together all the time. In Brazil, you only have the best players from Brazil who come together a few times a year to play football against some quite poor teams. Any La Liga / Premier League team not only play against top quality most weeks, they have a method of doing so drilled by weeks and weeks and months and months of training and drills. International football will never replicate that.

Clubs are critically able to do one thing that national sides are restricted from doing, and that is cure an inherent weakness which may be a trait of the nation, or just be a coincidence of what area of the pitch you are thin on the ground for talent in for that particular generation - eg, Brazilian goalkeepers have always been comparatively poor, a top club would just go out and buy a Cech, a Buffon.

Look at England now, after this world cup we could see Terry, Weo and Cashley retire - what do we do then, we dont have any top quality coming through so we have to use backups, who werent good enough in the first place. A Barcelona, Chelsea, or even City would just go and spend £50m replacing them with the best players in the world in those positions.

If any country, maybe with the exception of Spain currently tried playing against a top league side in a competetive game, they would lose by several goals.

What you say is probably right.But the fact that teams such as Chelski etc... dont have the best players in every position says to me that its never the case A side can never buy the best for all positions and therefore be the best.Lets say Messi,Tranny and Villa are the best players in the world at the moment in their positions.None of them are at Chelski or even at the same clubs.
Also the fact that the players in these top Euro teams are only a small part of a team that normally wins the WC suggests that the top Euro teams are not at the standard of a top class International teams.
Lets say the Germans,Italians and Brazillians are the most successful international teams.Teams made up with players from the other top Euro leagues such as Spain and the Prem are not able to beat International teams with players from lesser leagues.

International sides will only ever be as strong as their weakest link. Look at England, we havent been able to solve the left sided problem since Chris Waddle retired 20 years ago and our international midfield has been unbalanced ever since. Probably for the past decade, the sum of our parts has probably been enough on paper to win any tournament. At the last world cup we had arguably the best midfield England have ever had, and again on paper the best club players in the world with Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, +an other, but it was all irrelevant because they dont fit in the same team and are permanently unbalanced by having nobody on the left.

Lampard is exceptional at Chelsea, because Chelsea buy players and play a system to complement him, and players around him who can do the things Lampard cannot do, hence Chelsea have one of the best midfielders in the world in Lampard, wheras England with Lampard generally have a passenger because we pick the best players, not the best team, which is true for most international sides, because they have such limited choice.

Real Madrid identified they wanted the best winger/forward in the world as they were weak in that area so went and signed Ronaldo. Had England been able to go and sign Ronaldo to solve our problem on the wing we would be winning everything in sight, as we cant, we will continue to be unbalanced until a top left midfielder comes along. By which time we will have no left backs or goalkeepers in the country, and so it all starts again.

I have highlighted England, but only to show that in certain countries inherant weaknesses and shortages of quality players in certain positions undermines the whole team, wheras a club side would simply go and sign someone from a choice of any one of 150 footballing nations who can plug that gap, so a club side will always be stronger than a top international side.

And getting back to the op, with the odd exception, I would close my curtains if internation football was being playing in my back garden, its utter fucking dross by and large. Mismatched teams every game, and now and again a big qualifying game comes along and they just cancel each other out.

[Rag_hater]

International sides will only ever be as strong as their weakest link. Look at England, we havent been able to solve the left sided problem since Chris Waddle retired 20 years ago and our international midfield has been unbalanced ever since. Probably for the past decade, the sum of our parts has probably been enough on paper to win any tournament. At the last world cup we had arguably the best midfield England have ever had, and again on paper the best club players in the world with Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, +an other, but it was all irrelevant because they dont fit in the same team and are permanently unbalanced by having nobody on the left.

Lampard is exceptional at Chelsea, because Chelsea buy players and play a system to complement him, and players around him who can do the things Lampard cannot do, hence Chelsea have one of the best midfielders in the world in Lampard, wheras England with Lampard generally have a passenger because we pick the best players, not the best team, which is true for most international sides, because they have such limited choice.

Real Madrid identified they wanted the best winger/forward in the world as they were weak in that area so went and signed Ronaldo. Had England been able to go and sign Ronaldo to solve our problem on the wing we would be winning everything in sight, as we cant, we will continue to be unbalanced until a top left midfielder comes along. By which time we will have no left backs or goalkeepers in the country, and so it all starts again.

I have highlighted England, but only to show that in certain countries inherant weaknesses and shortages of quality players in certain positions undermines the whole team, wheras a club side would simply go and sign someone from a choice of any one of 150 footballing nations who can plug that gap, so a club side will always be stronger than a top international side.

And getting back to the op, with the odd exception, I would close my curtains if internation football was being playing in my back garden, its utter fucking dross by and large. Mismatched teams every game, and now and again a big qualifying game comes along and they just cancel each other out.[/quote]














You've kind of made the point I'm trying to explain yourself.
England have had players over the years that have been very good but they have never had a team full of top players whereas I think teams like Brazil have had maybe at times teams with 7 or 8 players that are world class.And for this reason they are better than any club side.
Now again England have maybe 1 or 2 players that can be counted as world class as do all the top sides in the Prem and La liga.
Whereas a team like Spain or Brazil has many more.
Because a country like England has weaknesses in its side it is not the same for other countries.
Maybe its because of the way football is taught in the UK but the deficiencies that are so in the British game are not the same in other parts of the world.
A country such as Spain which has world class players more or less in every position ,more than any club side is going to be better than every other team.
There are moments in time when a country can put together a side full of world class players.

[Patrick]

joe Hart would have made it 3-0

[Im_Spartacus]

There are moments in time when a country can put together a side full of world class players.

But this is just the point, "moments in time" happens very rarely leading to dreadfully poor matches, because there has hardly ever been a moment in time when one of these teams full of world class players, have met another side full of world class players.

The top clubs do it week in week out and maybe we are spoiled, but for me that is why when it comes to international football, it is a total and utter turn off.