The mancityfans.net football forum

From the Jim Cassell thread, seemed like a worthwhile thing to start a topic of its own..

Ted Hughes wrote:

ant london wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:The fact that we feel we need to import that many young players from abroad means something in this country is desperately, hopelessly wrong.

I agree actually. Despite the fact that it probably means that we will raise the bar in terms of the quality available soon to the first team it surely is a fairly damning indictment of the fact that the academy has not actually been doing that great a job.

Sure, in UK terms it has been outperforming most of the other UK club's efforts but vs overseas comparisons such as Barcelona, Sporting Lisbon or Ajax it has to be viewed as desperately average in terms of the output to date

Most of the real quality English kids have passed us by but I don't think it's just our academy, I think there's a lack of raw talent for them to pick from. Some, like West Ham, have been far better than us at spotting the talent that does exist but in a football loving country like this, there should be 10 times as many quality players to pick from. In the 60's & 70's there were. If these facilities had existed then, teams wouldn't have needed transfers, they'd've all had 11 home grown players.

Kids aren't born without talent, that's for sure, so something is cocking them up before they reach us.

What is being suggested here is that youth development techniques are well inadequate in the UK.

is it that if you show some technical skill or flair you get clogged from an early age? ( in other words our system is geared to bringing everyone down to the cloggers level )

Is there still not enough emphasis on individual skills in the development stages of kids?

Anyone got any experience of youth development in other countries, if so how does it differ from the UK?

English football is viewed abroad (well in Holland anyway) as longball tactics based on power and strength. Kids' training over here is always tecnhique-based and even the fitness/strength exercises are done using the ball. Also, they aren't trained for a specific position til a later age. When I was playing at a reasonably high level I played right-back, right-wing and central midfield regularly. That way everyone has got a decent basic technique and understanding of the game and can switch positions without panicking with the ball at your feet. That's what the whole idea of 'total football' was about really.

I think rural's thread on how you treat you 6 year old kids wanting to play football says it all.

Fidel Castro wrote:English football is viewed abroad (well in Holland anyway) as longball tactics based on power and strength. Kids' training over here is always tecnhique-based and even the fitness/strength exercises are done using the ball. Also, they aren't trained for a specific position til a later age. When I was playing at a reasonably high level I played right-back, right-wing and central midfield regularly. That way everyone has got a decent basic technique and understanding of the game and can switch positions without panicking with the ball at your feet. That's what the whole idea of 'total football' was about really.

I like the Holland technique, seems clever. As a kid, we played full size games from the age of about 10? Which seems really silly thinking about it. Also positions were pretty much standard, quickest on the wings, biggest in defence, best player up front.

Australia has changed the format for junior players modelled on the dutch system. We have a dutch technical director, and of course Pim Verbeek is the Socceroos coach.

Getting players comfortable on the ball is the main focus of junior development.

dazby wrote:Australia has changed the format for junior players modelled on the dutch system. We have a dutch technical director, and of course Pim Verbeek is the Socceroos coach.

Getting players comfortable on the ball is the main focus of junior development.

Was that Hiddink's idea? Think he changed the whole Russian system as well

It was his number 2 Johan Neeskens. He helped set that up and when he left we got another Dutch guy in.

You want a job in football in Oz? Have a dutch passport.

dazby wrote:It was his number 2 Johan Neeskens. He helped set that up and when he left we got another Dutch guy in.

You want a job in football in Oz? Have a dutch passport.

Haha I can apply for a Dutch passport I think.....World Cup here I come!

As far as I remember, when Paul Power & Howard Wilkinson etc were researching for the FA to put together the plan for Academies in the UK, the main models they were looking at & learning from were places like Ajax, so to a large extent we DID copy the Dutch system (& like them we woefully underperform in international tournaments so it's worked ;)

I think the bigger problem is what happens to the kids before we get them or the ones that the clubs don't spot early. Most of the greats of yesteryear didn't have some plank who thinks he's Alf Ramsey telling them how to play football when they were little kids. They learned skills themselves, often in back streets & on wasteground, then were coached in the details later.

Fidel Castro wrote:

dazby wrote:It was his number 2 Johan Neeskens. He helped set that up and when he left we got another Dutch guy in.

You want a job in football in Oz? Have a dutch passport.

Haha I can apply for a Dutch passport I think.....World Cup here I come!

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Take some lessons from this Dutch fellow.

Funniest thing ever. What a turd.