Sunderland vs City. Your thoughts.

[Wooders]

my thoughts is we need to do something about our midfield (barry and de jong), individually I rate them highly, but they don't click do they?

[Ted Hughes]

I made the point in reference to the Chelsea game that Tevez basically played Chelsea on his own 1st half & we sat back too much inviting a mistake from our defenders. I said we needed to learn from it rather than brushing it under the carpet but we learned nothing & did it again. We MUST get players forward, even if we're being cautious in games.

In the 2nd half Mancini pushed them forward & with better finishing & final ball we could have deservedly scored 4 or 5. Great attacking display again, similar to our earlier season football. Thought RSC led the line superbly & if he can get his shooting boots on could be a real bonus for us but we need to bin the boring tactics against these shit teams & go for the throat; if we lose we lose, manager & players need to have the bottle to not be scared of it & fans need to accept it if we lose by trying to win.

Big positives for me were, Micah going forward, RSC (apart from poor finish) , Johnson & great 2nd half attacking football.

Big negatives; 1st half tactical bullshit, Vinny all over the shop like Toure & sadly SWP; headless waste of space, even workrate well down & a shadow of the player who scored there last season.

[BobKowalski]

However,this game we totally dominated 2nd half and iv not seen City do this for such a prolonged period this season.There is a top 4 side hidden away but it needs to come out for the full 90mins.Can we do it this season? If we play like we did 2nd half and have Ade for the remainder of games i think we can.

Agree with this. Just when I am on the verge of giving up hope out pops the quality and we look different class. City are the footie equivalent of a hot prick tease you just can't stay away from.

One thing I am guilty of forgetting is that this is our first season with this group players and for the club our first season realistically challenging for a top 4 spot. Its a tired cliche but perhaps the missing ingredient is simply time.

[ant london]

OK have had a bit of a chance to calm down after last night and here are my thoughts:

We were dire in every conceivable way in the first half:

second best in terms of desire
sloppy technically with tackles mis-timed, balls lumped aimlessly upfield, possession turned straight over to the opposition (by way of passing it straight to them or....even better....directly out of play)
tactically I have no idea what the "game plan" was that first half but whatever it was it was fucking terrible
team selection was poor once again...esp in midfield
key players in Tevez, Bellamy, SWP just not at the races
a midfield that was devoid of creativity (or more accurately, shackled as to render it thus)
we were exceptionally fortunate to go in at half time only one down

Second half yes we were much better:

Bizarrely Vieira made that still cagey midfield set-up look more creative by simple virtue that he clearly still has the eye for a great pass and the technique to pull it off

A lot of bollocks being spouted re RSC by the usual suspects (before you start CARL....that includes you and KK and all who have been on his back before he even pulled on a blue shirt). YES his finishing at the end and his "cross" were fucking terrible. NO I'm not saying that, on current evidence, he deserves a place in the starting eleven. YES I can see that we overpaid horribly for an injury-prone player BUT if you can't see how (in light of the bollocks game plan of balls being lumped upfield) he changed our tempo and ability to retain possession massively then I question how much you watch/understand the game (feel free to put me in Grob's Condescending Cunt Category). He has been deservedly slated for wasting those two good opportunities but to be willfully blind to the positives that his introduction brought is a touch silly....sorry....cuntish.

Why wasn't SWP pulled off earlier....he was terrible from start to finish. I can honestly see him being sold in the summer on current form.

Micah was better in lots of ways but his performance also contained much of the brainlessness that blights his game (rash challenges, more jogging back when a sprint needed, poor pass selection). Not terrible but far from great.

We had, overall, several players who could have been red carded last night. I don't know what on earth they have been doing since Chelsea but they all looked off the pace and their tackling and passing showed it.

I wholly agree with CtK's analysis of Mancini so far. As I said in another post last night, he is just as flawed as Hughes....but in different ways. Excessive caution vs Excessive rashness/naivety. Both have a huge risk of fucking up this season.

Looking at the table it was a good point and, as others have said, I would have taken 4 points in advance of these two fixtures. But that rather misses the point that we easily could have taken 6 so it really is 2 points dropped rather than 1 won for me.

[shawzy]

MOTD2 Highlights here.

http://vodpod.com/watch/3239400-sunderl ... ty-1-motd2

[dick dastardley]

i didnt know the premier league allowed a cow field to be used for football, that has to be the worst pitch in the prem, RSC although not played much is garbage, SWP was very poor and needed to be subbed earlier, first half they just werent at the races second half we closed down quicker and started to play some decent attacking football on a shite pitch, i thought we actually played better when Vieira came on. their keeper kept the home side in it, we should have won that game comfortably with better finishing.................

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I looked at the team we started with and knew that we were going to struggle to create. Dejong, Barry and Mad Frank is too negative. For all the criticism of RSc, he changed the game more or less from the moment he came on. He should have started. The substitution of Sweep for AJ was excellent too, but should have happened earlier. I love little Shauny, but he was woeful yesterday.

It feels like we've lost, but a point is a point. And we created enough chances to have won by four in the second half. Talking to a Sunderland fan on the Metro back to Newcastle (Decent bloke and he had trials at City in 1968 apparently so has a soft spot for us) and he was saying that they were delighted we didn't over run their midfield with all their regulars out. Probably a missed opportunity really.

[The Man In Blue]

thought RSC was good after the break, vieira also looked good.

NDJ the usual apart from one badly misplaced pass, SWP terrible display.

Why oh why oh why do we take so long to get out of the blocks.

[john@staustell]

thought RSC was good after the break, vieira also looked good.

NDJ the usual apart from one badly misplaced pass, SWP terrible display.

Why oh why oh why do we take so long to get out of the blocks.

Agree with you mate. When RSC came on we looked a lot better, so mindless slagging him off is no purpose. Unfortunately he was too casual with his main chance, which is not good, but his overall play was good.

As the commentators said Vieira made a difference. He still wants too much time, but the key thing is he knows how to pass FORWARD and put pressure on. Got a funny feeling he will prove his worth over the last 10 games.

Bellamy I thought did the best he could with his chances but Gordon always got down very early and spread himself and reacted well. Not 'lucky', a keeper in form.

SWP - nuff said

Although the manager dismissed using it as an excuse the pitch should not be allowed. You cant tell me a pitch where every bounce is uneven, where the 'footballing' side cant even trap a ball, doesn't give Sunderland an advantage (which we overcame second half).

So if Cech had been in goal at Chelsea and Hilario at Sunderland we would've lost 1-0 at Chelsea and won 4 or 5 at Sunderland with basically the same playing performances. As Bobby says 'football is like that'. We should be satisfied with those 4 points because, as most of us predicted a defeat at Chelsea, we are still on course for 4th and it's still in our hands.

[Ted Hughes]

thought RSC was good after the break, vieira also looked good.

NDJ the usual apart from one badly misplaced pass, SWP terrible display.

Why oh why oh why do we take so long to get out of the blocks.

Agree with you mate. When RSC came on we looked a lot better, so mindless slagging him off is no purpose. Unfortunately he was too casual with his main chance, which is not good, but his overall play was good.

As the commentators said Vieira made a difference. He still wants too much time, but the key thing is he knows how to pass FORWARD and put pressure on. Got a funny feeling he will prove his worth over the last 10 games.

Bellamy I thought did the best he could with his chances but Gordon always got down very early and spread himself and reacted well. Not 'lucky', a keeper in form.

SWP - nuff said

Although the manager dismissed using it as an excuse the pitch should not be allowed. You cant tell me a pitch where every bounce is uneven, where the 'footballing' side cant even trap a ball, doesn't give Sunderland an advantage (which we overcame second half).

So if Cech had been in goal at Chelsea and Hilario at Sunderland we would've lost 1-0 at Chelsea and won 4 or 5 at Sunderland with basically the same playing performances. As Bobby says 'football is like that'. We should be satisfied with those 4 points because, as most of us predicted a defeat at Chelsea, we are still on course for 4th and it's still in our hands.

Agree with most of that but we've just chucked away the bonus points we got at Chelsea.

Re Bellamy; he had RSC stood on the 6 yard line in front of an empty net when he shot at the near post. It's the kind of situation the rags turn into simple tap-ins & we miss week in week out because of a lack of awareness. SWP's selfish effort was another one & very typical of him in that area. We should start working on it in training as we don't seem to have the brains to work it out without that.

[Bingo Lewis]

We started the game with 7 defenders and 3 attackers. Bob changed this after 30 minutes, so we had 6 defenders and 4 attackers.
Still not good enough. we should have 4 defenders, 1 defensive midfielder, 3 forward thinking midfielders, and 2 attackers. 5 and 5. with us having 7 defensive players there were too many getting in each others way. it also seemed like they were letting people go too easily, as if they were expecting the next person to pick up the one they just left. Against teams like sunderland, who lets be honest are quite poor, we don't need to line up like that. We didn't have one single player on that pitch who could create anything from midfield. That is poor.
De Jong. This guy is a top tackler. but thats it. he offers nothing else whatsoegver. the guy can't even pass the ball sideways well. gave the ball away numerous times. Pissed me off when he blasted that shot over right at the end. he should stick to breaking legs.
SWP, got slagged off a few weeks ago for saying that we ned to replace him next season. still disagree???
Bellers, total let down yesterday. seemed like him and Tevez were seeing who could be the greediest.
Tevez, see bellers.
RSC I thought had glimpses of what he can do. Put himself about well, won headers, seemed better on the ball. Finishing was shite, and that cross was fucking wank. needs game time.
Barry did ok. Zaba did ok. Vinny and Jolene did ok.
In all, I'd like to see mr Bob stop being such a shitbag against shite teams. Its costing us points. get it sorted. If we fuck up getting 4th, I'll hunt him down and spark him out.

[Rag_hater]

For me yesterday was a bit of a let down but we got something which to me is better than nothing and we are still in it to get 4th so am not to upset about the result.

[john68]

I think that we need to look at our results a little differently than maybe we have in past seasons. In the past, a draw at Sunderland gave us a point and was ok. In our present situation, where our nearest rivals are dropping fewer points than our rivals in past seasons, a win becomes more important if we are to gain a CL spot.
The weekend's results did us no faviurs allowing Spurs to potentially get to within 1pt of us and it allowed Villa to keep 1pt behind when we could have opened a gap.

We seem to continue to be reactive. Allowing opponents to dictate the early game and adapting to their strategies. We do not seem to be asserting our strategies, forcing opponents to adapt to our game and deal with what we are doing.

[Original Dub]

For me yesterday was a bit of a let down but we got something which to me is better than nothing and we are still in it to get 4th so am not to upset about the result.

I reckon that applies to everyone really...

Its hard not to be content given that it looked like we were going to get nothing from the game at all, but we were absolutely POISON in that first half. Just like the Chelsea game. We offered nothing going forward again and if it wasn't for their lack of quality in shooting around the edge of the box, we'd have been in serious trouble.

I'm not going to go down the line of "the big teams will make us pay" because they simply don't. We're clearly able to get ourselves up for the big games.... but we need to attack the lesser teams from the off. This is something Mancini is responsible for as its becoming more and more obvious that he doesn't want us to attack unless we need to.

And FFS at this stage will the usual suspects let the rest of us talk about the game in two halves if said game has contrasting halves??! Every fucking time anyone points out that we were horseshit in the first half of any game, some clown jumps on and say "I can't believe people are giving out after that performance/result".


If a game has two completely different halves, you don't simply forget about one of them because you're happy with the other. Its about how we set our stall out in games and its actually becoming quite frequent, so to point it out is merely to observe a regular pattern and to refuse to see it is completely blinkered.

One observation I've made recently is that when we need to rescue a game we are very capable... the other observation I've made is that we start every game very negatively and as a result we need to rescue each one.

That will not get us fourth place.

[Mike J]

why do we always have to have a boo boy? i take it rsc is that man at the moment. considering how little he has played i thought he did alright. obviously should of scored but some of his touches and build up play were excellent.

on another thread i saw comparisons with samaras. that is just fucking ridiculous.

[lets all have a disco]

It's a shit hole.


Thanks for listening.

PS MACKEM NO OFFENCE LIKE.

[mackemmad]

Hello again

Just thought i'd share a few thoughts on the game from a SAFC perspective (Which reading some of the posts on here seems quite similar)

I thought Sunderland ran the first half. I think we shocked citys players by getting in their faces and actually going out and trying to win the ball. Completely understandable for city to think we wouldn't do this because for the last 3/4 months we haven't. Our goal was cracking, Given didn't have a chance, and Jones ran things up front for us in the first half. We really missed him in the second.

Second half was a completely different story. You were all over us for most of it. We had a couple of half decent breaks but we really did miss Jones. Gordon pulled off 4/5 fantastic saves and showed he's worth every penny of the 9M we payed for him. Seriously think if we had anyone else in net we'd have been beated by at least 2 goals. He was immense.

Johnsons goal was immense as well (Although we gave him far too much time on the ball). I'm so gutted Stve Bruce couldn't convince him to join us in January.

1-1 was probably a fair result as we controlled a half each but I left the game feeling gutted. I reckon we've dropped 9/10 points from injury time goals this season.

Just a couple of other thoughts...

Is Shaun Wright-Phillips actually any good. Obviously you guys see him play more often than me but I don't think I've seen him put in 2 good crosses in a game. It seems to me that he has a lot of pace and vary little else. I know AJ's a left winger but you looked a lot more dangerous when he was on the right hand side.

I saw another thread on here about why Micah Richards was taken off. If you ask me it was because if he wasn't subbed off he would have been sent off. The referee spoke to him not long before and we all took that as his final warning. Looks like Mancini might have seen it that way as well.

Just a point on the pitch. It's actually been put on the final shortlist for the Premier leagues "Best Pitch" Award. Match officials and managers gave given it an average of 5/5 this season. (Yeah, that raised a few eyebrows up here as well)

[The Man In Blue]

Just a point on the pitch. It's actually been put on the final shortlist for the Premier leagues "Best Pitch" Award. Match officials and managers gave given it an average of 5/5 this season. (Yeah, that raised a few eyebrows up here as well)

unbelievable! some valid points there though mate, good to get another perspective.

[Original Dub]

Hello again

Just thought i'd share a few thoughts on the game from a SAFC perspective (Which reading some of the posts on here seems quite similar)

I thought Sunderland ran the first half. I think we shocked citys players by getting in their faces and actually going out and trying to win the ball. Completely understandable for city to think we wouldn't do this because for the last 3/4 months we haven't. Our goal was cracking, Given didn't have a chance, and Jones ran things up front for us in the first half. We really missed him in the second.

Second half was a completely different story. You were all over us for most of it. We had a couple of half decent breaks but we really did miss Jones. Gordon pulled off 4/5 fantastic saves and showed he's worth every penny of the 9M we payed for him. Seriously think if we had anyone else in net we'd have been beated by at least 2 goals. He was immense.

Johnsons goal was immense as well (Although we gave him far too much time on the ball). I'm so gutted Stve Bruce couldn't convince him to join us in January.

1-1 was probably a fair result as we controlled a half each but I left the game feeling gutted. I reckon we've dropped 9/10 points from injury time goals this season.

Just a couple of other thoughts...

Is Shaun Wright-Phillips actually any good. Obviously you guys see him play more often than me but I don't think I've seen him put in 2 good crosses in a game. It seems to me that he has a lot of pace and vary little else. I know AJ's a left winger but you looked a lot more dangerous when he was on the right hand side.

I saw another thread on here about why Micah Richards was taken off. If you ask me it was because if he wasn't subbed off he would have been sent off. The referee spoke to him not long before and we all took that as his final warning. Looks like Mancini might have seen it that way as well.

Just a point on the pitch. It's actually been put on the final shortlist for the Premier leagues "Best Pitch" Award. Match officials and managers gave given it an average of 5/5 this season. (Yeah, that raised a few eyebrows up here as well)

Good analysis and bang on the mark mate.

The highlighted part - I was texting my mate during the match and we both agreed that any team that really gets in our face we just can't seem to handle. That's probably why we've done so well against the big sides and struggled as soon as a team puts physical pressure and closes the ball down at every opportunity.

The thing is, most of the time if you run around chasing every ball for 45 mins, you will tire quicker than the other team, so you really have to hope to score 2 in the first half IMO, particularly when you're playing against quality opposition with quality on the bench.

[Bingo Lewis]

Hello again

Just thought i'd share a few thoughts on the game from a SAFC perspective (Which reading some of the posts on here seems quite similar)

I thought Sunderland ran the first half. I think we shocked citys players by getting in their faces and actually going out and trying to win the ball. Completely understandable for city to think we wouldn't do this because for the last 3/4 months we haven't. Our goal was cracking, Given didn't have a chance, and Jones ran things up front for us in the first half. We really missed him in the second.

Second half was a completely different story. You were all over us for most of it. We had a couple of half decent breaks but we really did miss Jones. Gordon pulled off 4/5 fantastic saves and showed he's worth every penny of the 9M we payed for him. Seriously think if we had anyone else in net we'd have been beated by at least 2 goals. He was immense.

Johnsons goal was immense as well (Although we gave him far too much time on the ball). I'm so gutted Stve Bruce couldn't convince him to join us in January.

1-1 was probably a fair result as we controlled a half each but I left the game feeling gutted. I reckon we've dropped 9/10 points from injury time goals this season.

Just a couple of other thoughts...

Is Shaun Wright-Phillips actually any good. Obviously you guys see him play more often than me but I don't think I've seen him put in 2 good crosses in a game. It seems to me that he has a lot of pace and vary little else. I know AJ's a left winger but you looked a lot more dangerous when he was on the right hand side.

I saw another thread on here about why Micah Richards was taken off. If you ask me it was because if he wasn't subbed off he would have been sent off. The referee spoke to him not long before and we all took that as his final warning. Looks like Mancini might have seen it that way as well.

Just a point on the pitch. It's actually been put on the final shortlist for the Premier leagues "Best Pitch" Award. Match officials and managers gave given it an average of 5/5 this season. (Yeah, that raised a few eyebrows up here as well)

Good analysis and bang on the mark mate.

The highlighted part - I was texting my mate during the match and we both agreed that any team that really gets in our face we just can't seem to handle. That's probably why we've done so well against the big sides and struggled as soon as a team puts physical pressure and closes the ball down at every opportunity.

The thing is, most of the time if you run around chasing every ball for 45 mins, you will tire quicker than the other team, so you really have to hope to score 2 in the first half IMO, particularly when you're playing against quality opposition with quality on the bench.

It pisses me off why all teams seem to be able to do this to us, but we never do it to anybody else.
Thats ever too, not just under Bob.