Why fix something thats not broken?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Even setting aside the principle of not changing a winning team, [highlight]I thought very early on we were missing Santa Cruz[/highlight] and Vieira. Tevez was being bullied and NDJ has no forward thought process. Not sure about Garrido though :)

I hope you are joking.

[david yearsley]

Has anybody come up with a credible reason as to WHY Ireland started last night? He would have been nailed on for Mon imo but last night was NOT the game to start him .Evilton love to bully teams and are constantly leaving a foot in on players they consider influential. How many times has Ireland limped off or been kicked out of games against these types of tactics ? Remember Brown at Pompey, the Stoke game and others? What Evilton don´t like are teams prepared to stand up and slug it out and be a bit more attritional and pragmatic . A point would not have been a bad result last night and as Pool , Brum and Spuds have shown recently if you get in their faces and be patient bluescouse will disappear up a blind alley when the thuggery doesn´t work. We were easy pickings last night trying to rip them one early doors. They were ready and waiting for exactly that.
As for Ireland I´m seriously wondering whether too many people at the club spend too much fuclin time on forums!All a bit too coincidental for my liking but I won´t read anymore into it.

[Ted Hughes]

Even setting aside the principle of not changing a winning team, [highlight]I thought very early on we were missing Santa Cruz[/highlight] and Vieira. Tevez was being bullied and NDJ has no forward thought process. Not sure about Garrido though :)

I hope you are joking.

I agree I'm afraid. We played exactly the same balls to Tevez that we do to RSC but wheras RSC would be occupying the CB & Tevez in space, Tevez was marked by the CB with nobody near him. There was never a hope in hell of it working.

[Bingo Lewis]

Even setting aside the principle of not changing a winning team, [highlight]I thought very early on we were missing Santa Cruz[/highlight] and Vieira. Tevez was being bullied and NDJ has no forward thought process. Not sure about Garrido though :)

I hope you are joking.

I agree I'm afraid. We played exactly the same balls to Tevez that we do to RSC but wheras RSC would be occupying the CB & Tevez in space, Tevez was marked by the CB with nobody near him. There was never a hope in hell of it working.

I'm with you. Santa should have started.

[MaineRoadMemories]

How to beat City in 6 easy steps

• When City defenders/midfielders have the ball, press high up the field and give them no space or time to pass out
• Ensure City players pass it to Toure or back to Given
• Press these two into booting the ball long up to a 5 foot 6 striker
• Get centre back to win the header off said midget
• Pass the ball quickly and create space for crosses into the box (City don't cut out crosses anymore so space should be easy to find)
• Win header in the box a) score from header or b) score from knock down
• Repeat above process for 90 minutes

The only players who have time on the ball against teams like this are our full backs. They become the most crucial players on the pitch. We were left with Richards who cannot pass and Zabaleta who was on the wrong side and having to use his left foot hence cutting inside or kicking it straight into touch.

If we had two full back who could pass and use the channels effectively we would have being able to get a Everton a bit more. In my opinion full backs are becoming the most important players in the premiership nowadays.

If Toure and Given insist on playing long ball football then either Santa Cruz or Adebayor have to start. That is essential to have a chance of retaining possession.

[Ted Hughes]

How to beat City in 6 easy steps

• When City defenders/midfielders have the ball, press high up the field and give them no space or time to pass out
• Ensure City players pass it to Toure or back to Given
• Press these two into booting the ball long up to a 5 foot 6 striker
• Get centre back to win the header off said midget
• Pass the ball quickly and create space for crosses into the box (City don't cut out crosses anymore so space should be easy to find)
• Win header in the box a) score from header or b) score from knock down
• Repeat above process for 90 minutes

The only players who have time on the ball against teams like this are our full backs. They become the most crucial players on the pitch. We were left with Richards who cannot pass and Zabaleta who was on the wrong side and having to use his left foot hence cutting inside or kicking it straight into touch.

If we had two full back who could pass and use the channels effectively we would have being able to get a Everton a bit more. In my opinion full backs are becoming the most important players in the premiership nowadays.

If Toure and Given insist on playing long ball football then either Santa Cruz or Adebayor have to start. That is essential to have a chance of retaining possession.

The same faults have been with us for a while; pressurising Dunne into hoofing it was a great success to stop Sven's team from playing & then Hughes' team last season. The difference this season imo is that when we really set out to attack, we're almost unstoppable. That's been taken away by Mancini in most of the home games yet we're still making enough errors at the back to risk losing each game. It doesn't make sense because it's plainly not working. As for the fullbacks, none of them deliver enough quality irrespective of who plays where. They should practice it every day.

[Dubaimancityfan]

I had no problem with the formation last night. However I did have a problem with the way that we did not play to our strength.
We had 2 genuine and fast wingers on from the start in Bellamy and AJ but we hardly saw any penetrating runs or any decent crosses
coming in even when RSC came on (here SWP took over).
Even our free kicks and corner kicks were wasted because of lame or over hit deliveries, so we took no advantage at all of these situations.
I don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere but this was supposed to be our 2nd match of the season when we were in top form and Everton had just shifted 6 goals against Arsenal and were in terrible form. I guess the result would have been very different if this match was played on its original date but, it wasn't meant to be !

[Blue2]

Even setting aside the principle of not changing a winning team, [highlight]I thought very early on we were missing Santa Cruz[/highlight] and Vieira. Tevez was being bullied and NDJ has no forward thought process. Not sure about Garrido though :)

I hope you are joking.

I agree I'm afraid. We played exactly the same balls to Tevez that we do to RSC but wheras RSC would be occupying the CB & Tevez in space, Tevez was marked by the CB with nobody near him. There was never a hope in hell of it working.

So the players are to fuclin thick to realise that he wasn't there and to change the delivery method? Just glad Ade will be back soon.

[brite blu sky]

im not buying into a lot of this..
dont get me wrong, there is some really good analysis of our weaknesses in all the what went wrong threads, and once again we will learn more as fans and players and manager from that defeat.

im not buying a lot of it, because it seems obvious to me that we allowed a goal against the run of play and then were basically up against it as Everton definately know how to play us, losing Ireland, not having RSC from the start, the dodgy Ref... etc etc, all contributed to taking away the knife edge difference we would have needed to overcome a good team that also has our number.
We will learn a lot form this, but we shouldn't go overboard that something is totally wrong, it is definately not right, but the difference is not THAT much. Everton certainly did not outplay us like at theirs, in fact we started well, and were all over them for a majority of the second half. I thought we were going to get an equaliser apart from what i felt at the time that we already looked hassled and were fluffing all the final balls and attempted shots. The goal and losing Stevie knocked us and made us have an almost panicky attitude.
i thing both teams knew from the off that whoever got the opening goal was more than likely to grab the points due to the teams being quite evenly matched ( toffees having better organised and disciplined teamwork, us being at home and generally more dangerous ).
We knew Everton would play well and we knew they had us sussed to some extent after Goodison.. so in my view we have improved dramatically since then. But just as the Stoke games showed us, we still have a lot to learn.. both players and Mancini.
These same players trashed Chelsea twice this season.. and Chelsea fans might bemoan their fortune in the second game.. and possibly quite rightly.. it is football after all and shit happens, mistakes and good bounces can make all the difference between fairly evenly matched teams. By us getting ahead of Chelsea at the bridge totally fucled them up.. suddenly the home record is in danger.. the title race is made a lot harder, the opponents are looking at getting 6 point from you.. Chelsea got rattled, lost composure, discipline and eventually 2 players.

imo we should have gotten back in the game last night, we played generally well enough to do so, but i think lost it to nerves.. by us snatching at the few opportunities that did arise. Now you have to give everton credit for their efforts at putting us in that frame of mind.. just as you would credit City for their play at Stamford Bridge.

Next season Chelsea will have serious concerns about playing City both at home and away, just as we will have serious concerns about playing the Toffees twice.

I still rekon we are better than we were.. i think we all knew this was going to be one of the most difficult games of the season. In reality it could have very easily gone another way, but that isn't good enough for our ambitions, so we clearly still have something to learn about playing teams like Everton and Stoke. I dont really see that this result or performance will have any negative effect on our mentality, because Wigan are going to get one hell off a hiding as this team really vents its frustration. Hopefully Bobby will also vent his frustration by simply setting us up to attack and letting the lads just get on with it.

Conclusion: although it was hard to take, this defeat will just spur us on all the more.. and there are some good cannon fodder teams coming up in quick succession.

If i was Manicin i would demand that we close the gap with Spurs goal difference.. seems to me that would be the right target to ensure we try and get the right attitude in the next few games.

[Blue2]

im not buying into a lot of this..
dont get me wrong, there is some really good analysis of our weaknesses in all the what went wrong threads, and once again we will learn more as fans and players and manager from that defeat.

im not buying a lot of it, because it seems obvious to me that we allowed a goal against the run of play and then were basically up against it as Everton definately know how to play us, losing Ireland, not having RSC from the start, the dodgy Ref... etc etc, all contributed to taking away the knife edge difference we would have needed to overcome a good team that also has our number.
We will learn a lot form this, but we shouldn't go overboard that something is totally wrong, it is definately not right, but the difference is not THAT much. Everton certainly did not outplay us like at theirs, in fact we started well, and were all over them for a majority of the second half. I thought we were going to get an equaliser apart from what i felt at the time that we already looked hassled and were fluffing all the final balls and attempted shots. The goal and losing Stevie knocked us and made us have an almost panicky attitude.
i thing both teams knew from the off that whoever got the opening goal was more than likely to grab the points due to the teams being quite evenly matched ( toffees having better organised and disciplined teamwork, us being at home and generally more dangerous ).
We knew Everton would play well and we knew they had us sussed to some extent after Goodison.. so in my view we have improved dramatically since then. But just as the Stoke games showed us, we still have a lot to learn.. both players and Mancini.
These same players trashed Chelsea twice this season.. and Chelsea fans might bemoan their fortune in the second game.. and possibly quite rightly.. it is football after all and shit happens, mistakes and good bounces can make all the difference between fairly evenly matched teams. By us getting ahead of Chelsea at the bridge totally fucled them up.. suddenly the home record is in danger.. the title race is made a lot harder, the opponents are looking at getting 6 point from you.. Chelsea got rattled, lost composure, discipline and eventually 2 players.

imo we should have gotten back in the game last night, we played generally well enough to do so, but i think lost it to nerves.. by us snatching at the few opportunities that did arise. Now you have to give everton credit for their efforts at putting us in that frame of mind.. just as you would credit City for their play at Stamford Bridge.

Next season Chelsea will have serious concerns about playing City both at home and away, just as we will have serious concerns about playing the Toffees twice.

I still rekon we are better than we were.. i think we all knew this was going to be one of the most difficult games of the season. In reality it could have very easily gone another way, but that isn't good enough for our ambitions, so we clearly still have something to learn about playing teams like Everton and Stoke. I dont really see that this result or performance will have any negative effect on our mentality, because Wigan are going to get one hell off a hiding as this team really vents its frustration. Hopefully Bobby will also vent his frustration by simply setting us up to attack and letting the lads just get on with it.

Conclusion: although it was hard to take, this defeat will just spur us on all the more.. and there are some good cannon fodder teams coming up in quick succession.

If i was Manicin i would demand that we close the gap with Spurs goal difference.. seems to me that would be the right target to ensure we try and get the right attitude in the next few games.

Very good, reasoned post agree with all of it, apart from the RSC bit.

As I said earlier, we lost the match due to lack of composure after they scored. We were by far the best team in the first 30 mins and they were no better than us after.

[carl_feedthegoat]

Even setting aside the principle of not changing a winning team, [highlight]I thought very early on we were missing Santa Cruz[/highlight] and Vieira. Tevez was being bullied and NDJ has no forward thought process. Not sure about Garrido though :)

I hope you are joking.

I agree I'm afraid. We played exactly the same balls to Tevez that we do to RSC but wheras RSC would be occupying the CB & Tevez in space, Tevez was marked by the CB with nobody near him. There was never a hope in hell of it working.

So the players are to fuclin thick to realise that he wasn't there and to change the delivery method? Just glad Ade will be back soon.

Ill be glad when Ade is back but I have to say he,s a fucking cunt that has let us daown massively this season due to his red cards.....6 games he has been suspended for plus the mickey mouse African cup and the aftermath........he has certainly not been value for money this season has he!

He owes us big time.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

We had a short spell before their first goal where we looked like we might score. After that, it was shelling peas for them. I think it was a stunning decision to drop RSC to being in an out of form Stevie Ireland. Then Sweep comes on, so we have three wide players but nobody to cross it to. Shauny provided nothing at all, and certainly no more than Johnson could have done. Rotten decisions by Bobby Manc.

[marvin]

We played 4-2-4 at Everton and got beat comfortably

Everton are well known for packing the midfield so it would have been dangerous to go into the game with just 2 central midfielders

As it happens we ended up playing the system you all wanted out of adversity, but it didn't really improve. I thought our football for the first 30 mins was very good as it happens. Last season Ireland was very good. This season you've all gone back to slagging him off. Moronic.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I wasn't slagging him off, I merely said he's out of form. I'm a big fan of Stevie's, but that doesn't change the fact he's not been doing it for us for ages.

[zuricity]

Has anybody come up with a credible reason as to WHY Ireland started last night? He would have been nailed on for Mon imo but last night was NOT the game to start him .Evilton love to bully teams and are constantly leaving a foot in on players they consider influential. How many times has Ireland limped off or been kicked out of games against these types of tactics ? Remember Brown at Pompey, the Stoke game and others? What Evilton don´t like are teams prepared to stand up and slug it out and be a bit more attritional and pragmatic . A point would not have been a bad result last night and as Pool , Brum and Spuds have shown recently if you get in their faces and be patient bluescouse will disappear up a blind alley when the thuggery doesn´t work. We were easy pickings last night trying to rip them one early doors. They were ready and waiting for exactly that.
As for Ireland I´m seriously wondering whether too many people at the club spend too much fuclin time on forums!All a bit too coincidental for my liking but I won´t read anymore into it.

You're certainly right about Evilton and fouling. In the Merseyside derby, the very first thing that Carragher did in the first minute in fact, was to bulldozer Pinaar. After that the git was off his game. Coupled with Fellainis outrageous behaviour which ended in him being injured rather than - should have been sent off with a red card ! Evilton bottled it thereafter.

Now last night , i really don't recall any player going over to sort of 'duff' Heitinga over, for his outrageous tackle on Ireland for example. I know I would have gone for the t*sser before the ref got a chance and afterwards I would have made sure that Heitinga knew he couldn't get away with it. In a nice sort of way..... if you know what i mean !

We just don't protect each other the way other teams do and it's not just a 'top 4 ' team thingy either. Stoke, Wolves, Blackburn , Everton for example, all protect each other as teammates. Perhaps it's because we've seen our team 'thrown' together this season and last and the one before that.

[david yearsley]

Has anybody come up with a credible reason as to WHY Ireland started last night? He would have been nailed on for Mon imo but last night was NOT the game to start him .Evilton love to bully teams and are constantly leaving a foot in on players they consider influential. How many times has Ireland limped off or been kicked out of games against these types of tactics ? Remember Brown at Pompey, the Stoke game and others? What Evilton don´t like are teams prepared to stand up and slug it out and be a bit more attritional and pragmatic . A point would not have been a bad result last night and as Pool , Brum and Spuds have shown recently if you get in their faces and be patient bluescouse will disappear up a blind alley when the thuggery doesn´t work. We were easy pickings last night trying to rip them one early doors. They were ready and waiting for exactly that.
As for Ireland I´m seriously wondering whether too many people at the club spend too much fuclin time on forums!All a bit too coincidental for my liking but I won´t read anymore into it.

You're certainly right about Evilton and fouling. In the Merseyside derby, the very first thing that Carragher did in the first minute in fact, was to bulldozer Pinaar. After that the git was off his game. Coupled with Fellainis outrageous behaviour which ended in him being injured rather than - should have been sent off with a red card ! Evilton bottled it thereafter.

Now last night , i really don't recall any player going over to sort of 'duff' Heitinga over, for his outrageous tackle on Ireland for example. I know I would have gone for the t*sser before the ref got a chance and afterwards I would have made sure that Heitinga knew he couldn't get away with it. In a nice sort of way..... if you know what i mean !

We just don't protect each other the way other teams do and it's not just a 'top 4 ' team thingy either. Stoke, Wolves, Blackburn , Everton for example, all protect each other as teammates. Perhaps it's because we've seen our team 'thrown' together this season and last and the one before that.

Nowt wrong with a bit of tit for tat for sure against these types - just wish Pat had been on for 60mins , got in their faces , done a bit of Hamann pineapple shielding the ball , then bringing Stevie on to administer the coup de gras - alas it wasn´t to be

[zuricity]

Has anybody come up with a credible reason as to WHY Ireland started last night? He would have been nailed on for Mon imo but last night was NOT the game to start him .Evilton love to bully teams and are constantly leaving a foot in on players they consider influential. How many times has Ireland limped off or been kicked out of games against these types of tactics ? Remember Brown at Pompey, the Stoke game and others? What Evilton don´t like are teams prepared to stand up and slug it out and be a bit more attritional and pragmatic . A point would not have been a bad result last night and as Pool , Brum and Spuds have shown recently if you get in their faces and be patient bluescouse will disappear up a blind alley when the thuggery doesn´t work. We were easy pickings last night trying to rip them one early doors. They were ready and waiting for exactly that.
As for Ireland I´m seriously wondering whether too many people at the club spend too much fuclin time on forums!All a bit too coincidental for my liking but I won´t read anymore into it.

You're certainly right about Evilton and fouling. In the Merseyside derby, the very first thing that Carragher did in the first minute in fact, was to bulldozer Pinaar. After that the git was off his game. Coupled with Fellainis outrageous behaviour which ended in him being injured rather than - should have been sent off with a red card ! Evilton bottled it thereafter.

Now last night , i really don't recall any player going over to sort of 'duff' Heitinga over, for his outrageous tackle on Ireland for example. I know I would have gone for the t*sser before the ref got a chance and afterwards I would have made sure that Heitinga knew he couldn't get away with it. In a nice sort of way..... if you know what i mean !

We just don't protect each other the way other teams do and it's not just a 'top 4 ' team thingy either. Stoke, Wolves, Blackburn , Everton for example, all protect each other as teammates. Perhaps it's because we've seen our team 'thrown' together this season and last and the one before that.

Nowt wrong with a bit of tit for tat for sure against these types - just wish Pat had been on for 60mins , got in their faces , done a bit of Hamann pineapple shielding the ball , then bringing Stevie on to administer the coup de gras - alas it wasn´t to be

You're right again , did you notice how their full back lashed out at Paddy just after he came on . Like a Coalmining ballet dancer his workass clog was lifted above Paddy's head to the ball. I think he got away with no booking too !

[Grob]

We played 4-2-4 at Everton and got beat comfortably

Everton are well known for packing the midfield so it would have been dangerous to go into the game with just 2 central midfielders

As it happens we ended up playing the system you all wanted out of adversity, but it didn't really improve. I thought our football for the first 30 mins was very good as it happens. Last season Ireland was very good. This season you've all gone back to slagging him off. Moronic.

I dont know how to say this politely but could you just fuck off