Original Dub wrote:
Actually, domestically, in the last ten years Barca have won the league 3 times and the Spanish cup once.
Arsenal have won the league twice and the FA cup 3 times.
Sure, in recent times Barca have managed to play the beautiful game successfully in Europe by winning the Champions League twice and that is also a credit to the calibur of player they signed/produced. Don't forget that one of those finals was against Arsenal so it has to be said that they too have learned how to play the beautiful game successfully in Europe to a certain degree of late.
Your point that more "efficient" teams like Chelsea, Inter, U***d (kind of) etc. seem to have more success is certainly valid, but I believe that the beautiful game will prevail in the end if you've the philosophy and money to back that philosophy. Arsenal could win the league and the champions league this year. Its easier to say they won't of course, but they could well do - there is 7 or 8 games left and they are still in the running for both - as are Barca.
All that said, you brought the debate into a different area because where it was about "style versus results", you're saying you're more likely to get success with less style and more efficiency...
We have a unique opportunity to build a Barca/Arsenal very quickly and generate success from such a team. However I realise that this can't be done without being able to draw the very best players and that will only happen with Champs League qualification.
So to summarise, I'll take the way we're playing now, be it luck, efficiency, negative, counter attacking.... whatever, once it gets us into that 4th spot. But should we get that fourth spot, I would love nothing more than to try to emulate Barca/Arsenal for style.
I was told I was talking bollox earlier because I said football generates money and fans because it is a fantastic source of entertainment. It doesn't mean I'm right, but IMO it is the beautiful game and should be played that way where at all possible... maybe for City, that's not right now, but I sure as shit hope it will be as soon as possible.
Yeah I should have been more clear and specified I meant in the last few seasons Arsenal has won very little while Barca has won much more. And yes, one of the CL Barca won was against Arsenal, just like the Gunners are still in the mix for both CL and league title but this ties in with my point that unless you have a whole bunch of superstars, style can only bring you so far, as I don't think they will win either. Of course, if they win one of those then they contradict my point :D
I agree that in the end the beautiful game should prevail, in our case at least as we have the means to build a squad which will be able to sustain it with results. BUT, we don't have such a squad
right now, which is why I think for the time being we should aim for the more efficient kind of football.
Also, I don't think you can have a real "style vs. results" debate because it will never be only one of them which prevails. I mean, take you for example, you want us to play with style, but would you still want it if we started playing that way and lost every game? Because if you try playing with style, it can bring great results but, especially at first, it can also go
very wrong. On the other side, would I be happy if we were to play "1-0 wins" football for more than half a season, or one at the most? No, because eventually it will get boring. But at this moment, since we are still a work in progress and CL qualification is vital for our progress, we need to play
that kind of football and try to get as much points as we can, no matter how.
In the end, I feel like we are saying the same thing. Both of us don't want to see this kind of football for a long time, but it is probably necessary for the time being.
Just another comment. I don't know how well we will be able to "emulate" Arsenal/Barcelona. Not many managers have that view of football, because for them it's a job, and so for them results are the main thing to look for. Some, like Wenger, Guardiola, Leonardo at Milan, Spalletti when he was at Roma, think that the best way to win is to attack and use the quality players they have to implement a pleasing style of quick passes on the deck, but not many will do that, take Mourinho, Ancelotti, Benitez for example. They all won titles but neither of them did it with the style we are talking about. Mancini, I think, falls into a middle between these extremes.
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