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City have been League Champions on only 2 occasions, 1937 and 1968.

In '38...The team usually quoted was: Swift, Dale, Barkas, Percival, Marshall, Bray, Toseland, Herd, Tilson, Doherty, Brook. (There were other contributing players)
In '68...The team usually quoted was: Mulhearn, Book, Pardoe, Doyle, Heslop, Oakes. Lee, Bell, Summerbee, Young, Coleman. (There were other contributing players)
After 38 games (which would constitute a current premiership season) The '37 team amassed 69pts and the '68 team 72pts.
A glance at my sig, which compares both of those seasons with the present one shows that this current team are 6pts ahead of the '37 team and only 3pts behind the '68 team, NOT a great difference.
This season, we can reasonably expect to finish 4th but in 1937, we would be on schedule to become League Champions and in '1968, we could reasonably be looking at being Runners-Up.

The reason I point this out is because amid all the argument about Hughes/Mancini or the shortcomings of this player or that player, we may have been missing a vital point. This present group of players, arguably, bears comparison with the two best ever groups of players that our club has ever fielded. Amid all the negativity of various sorts, maybe just maybe we should really be celebrating that this squad of players, which is really only in it's evolutionary beginnings, is comparable and maybe not that far off being one of the best ever City squads ever to wear the Sky Blue shirt.
Just a thought that may cheer you up....and give you the confidence to face future....and maybe stop a few moaners...too!!!

Interesting, but rather than ignore the final games of the season in the old league setups, for an accurate picture you should add the number of games we play now (38 total, or 33 at present) by the number played then (1967-68 = 42), then divide by two for the average . After that, tot up the points for each sample, and divide by two again.

Or something. I always was crap at maths!

john68 wrote:The reason I point this out is because amid all the argument about Hughes/Mancini or the shortcomings of this player or that player, we may have been missing a vital point. This present group of players, arguably, bears comparison with the two best ever groups of players that our club has ever fielded.

After spending £230 million on players it was always going to be.

The key thing has been giving the players time to gel into a team. My support of Hughes and a fair few of the players came from the need to stability and consistancy. Sadly Hughes lost the plot and he had to be replaced. Its no coincidence that the team now looks more settled and is playing better football and winning more matches after a relevently quiet transfer window in January. Now that Mancini has finally settled on a formation, thats helping a great deal too.

I've thought that all season & thought from the start that we'd get stronger in the last part of the season as the players got to know each other better. If we'd had a settled back 4 more often & Adebayor hadn't got himself suspended v Arsenal I think we would have challenged for the title. He wasn't the same player when he came back & it cost us dearly as Tevez wasn't match fit then.

The only really dreadful performances have been when key players have been missing &/or managers have put trust in Robinho. Even on bad days, other than Spurs, Everton, Hull, all the games we've lost or drawn could just as easily have been won with a bit of luck (although we have had some fortune in a few of our wins tbf).

Imo we still need a Colin Bell figure in the team to take us to the next level & perhaps a Glyn Pardoe too.

I think the fact that it's 3 points for a win now and not 2 needs to be taken into the equation somewhere.

You often here footballers from yesteryear saying you cannot compare today's game with that of the past when interviewers ask the question. I tend to agree, whilst 1937 and 1968 are great for looking back on and recollecting it's not very good for direct comparisons as there are too many variables. Back then you could lose quite a few games and win the league. Nowadays you have to look towards 90 points to win it.

MaineRoadMemories wrote:You often here footballers from yesteryear saying you cannot compare today's game with that of the past when interviewers ask the question. I tend to agree, whilst 1937 and 1968 are great for looking back on and recollecting it's not very good for direct comparisons as there are too many variables. Back then you could lose quite a few games and win the league. Nowadays you have to look towards 90 points to win it.

Surely that was because there were more teams who were able to beat the title challengers though? It seems to me that, at last, the Premier league is going that way & the mid table teams are getting stronger.

TBH it was always going to be a struggle to start with due to the way the Prem, chumps league big four set up was engineered. It was aimed at making the rich richer and the strong stronger, so no-one was going to break it without something exceptional happening.

John , using your calculations and parameters how would the runners-up of 76/77 fare ? This would also be an interesting comparison imo coz we only finished a point behind redscouse

david yearsley wrote:John , using your calculations and parameters how would the runners-up of 76/77 fare ? This would also be an interesting comparison imo coz we only finished a point behind redscouse

Dave Watson own goal, City v Scouse (Easter?). The fates have always gone against us!

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:I think the fact that it's 3 points for a win now and not 2 needs to be taken into the equation somewhere.

It has been mate. John's figures are all based on 3 points for a win.

It was never meant to be a definitive comparison. I understood there were quite a number of missing variables that would further affect the result. I just thought it was useful exercise to show that despite our ups, downs and various failures, despite some of the more vociferous negativity and debates, we are actually watching a City side that is maybe better than we realise.

I'll have a go at that runners up season when i get a chance David, just to see what comes up.

Can somebody please just tell me if we are going to win the league this season or not.

King Kev wrote:Can somebody please just tell me if we are going to win the league this season or not.

Yes Lee...we are...and the FA Cup, Carling Cup and even the Champions League...I saw it all in a dream Mate...Must be true.

john@staustell wrote:

david yearsley wrote:John , using your calculations and parameters how would the runners-up of 76/77 fare ? This would also be an interesting comparison imo coz we only finished a point behind redscouse

Dave Watson own goal, City v Scouse (Easter?). The fates have always gone against us!

How unlucky was that? Corrigan slipped at the same time or he would have got it fairly easily.

Ted Hughes wrote:

john@staustell wrote:

david yearsley wrote:John , using your calculations and parameters how would the runners-up of 76/77 fare ? This would also be an interesting comparison imo coz we only finished a point behind redscouse

Dave Watson own goal, City v Scouse (Easter?). The fates have always gone against us!

How unlucky was that? Corrigan slipped at the same time or he would have got it fairly easily.

That would be the 1-1 ,around Boxing day 76 maybe couple of days later coz I remember it was a night match - yep that cost us
The game at Easter was the return when we equalised 10 mins from time before the fuclin Kop sucked one in at the death -Heighway I think - twats!

Just done a quick calculation of the 76-77 season for you David, as you requested.

After 33 games...WON 16....DREW 12....LOST 5....(at 3pts for a win)...60pts.

Compare that with the sig below mate and you have all you need to know. Our present record is 2pts ahead of that year.
We considered that team to be a pretty amazing side...Maybe some should be a little less negative about this one eh!!!

Some great City names in there: Corrigan, Clements, Donachie, Doyle, Watson, Power, Owen, Kidd, Royle, Hartford, Tueart...and Tommy Booth figured in there too.

john68 wrote:Just done a quick calculation of the 76-77 season for you David, as you requested.

After 33 games...WON 16....DREW 12....LOST 5....(at 3pts for a win)...60pts.

Compare that with the sig below mate and you have all you need to know. Our present record is 2pts ahead of that year.
We considered that team to be a pretty amazing side...Maybe some should be a little less negative about this one eh!!!

Some great City names in there: Corrigan, Clements, Donachie, Doyle, Watson, Power, Owen, Kidd, Royle, Hartford, Tueart...and Tommy Booth figured in there too.

was a fantastic team..

and we have the makings of another right now.

Steven Ireland will come back better than ever now the team can play together.. and we have so many good players floating around.. it is fuclin ace.

I think these comparisons go to show how much more competitive the game is now, if with a similar path we are looking at a fourth spot, third at best, when back then you could win the league with it. This emans that while we may have one of the best sides in City's history right now, we need to better it further to actually compete for the title, which is what we want to be doing in a couple seasons, if not sooner.

CityFanFromRome wrote:I think these comparisons go to show how much more competitive the game is now, if with a similar path we are looking at a fourth spot, third at best, when back then you could win the league with it. This emans that while we may have one of the best sides in City's history right now, we need to better it further to actually compete for the title, which is what we want to be doing in a couple seasons, if not sooner.

Actually I think it shows that it is less. The league has becomes frighteningly polarised and while the top 4 or 5 or 3 or whatever they want to call it this week are pushing the bar higher and higher, the fact is for the rest of the league, sneaking a Europa spot or avoiding relegation seems to be the best they can hope for.