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I twice attempted to post comments criticising Mancini's uber-cautious tactics: firstly, as a comment to their report of Saturday's game.
And, earlier today, in the form of a question posed to Gabriele Marcottis 'web-chat'.

In neither case did my comments contain offensive or potentially libellous comments.

In each case I made the point, - or posed the question in Marcotti's case, asking whether he agreed with me or not, - that Mancini seems to have a standard first half and second half strategy.
He sends them out in the first half to let the opposition attack them; to keep things tight; hunt the opposition down, but don't do anything over-adventurous.
At half-time, if we haven't already scored at least three goals, employing Plan A,. he instructs them to follow Plan B: they can start to be more adventurous, albeit remembering their defensive responsibilities.

Prior to Saturday, this plan of his was seen to telling effect at Sunderland, where I'm sure most people here will recall that we were absolutely wretched in the first half, while in the second half we played like the Brazil team of the 1970 World Cup.

As regards the comments actually publised: in the case of the post-games comments, it appears that the Times were allowing a select few clowns indulge in their personal analysis.
Whereas in the latter case, Marcotti seemed unusually defensive, on Mancini's behalf, with regard to comments that were actually published


UPDATE: I tried to have the following question published/answered in today's Gabrielle Marcotti live webchat:
"Hi Gab, a similar question of mine last week wasn't published so hopefully this is second time lucky but but do you believe Roberto Mancini has separate first half and second half strategies: i.e. over-cautious first half, and if the team hasn't scored at least three goals by half-time, somewhat more adventurous second half. Either way do you think a tendency to excessive caution on his part will lead to us missing out on 4th spot"
No dice this week, either, but it seems Marcotti is a fan/admirer/(friend?) of Mancini in addition to being a compatriot

All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Swap to the Independent. LiveJournal (which the Indie has for user comments) seem to have clamped down on multiple account users, and more articulate City fans would be appreciated.

guv111@Independent.

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Lets all stay positive - but realistic and rational

The Burnley games blew us all away - but there was no hint in the games before that we would all of a sudden become a big attacking team - and indeed we were struggling to get on top in the Birmingham game before their goalkeeper fucked up - and we have looked so so timid so often - so sorry your argument is bollocks mate

Anyway lets just stay positive and hope we see it out - facts are though that the games against the spuds is now likely to be a cup final - whereas we should have been clear before that

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Lol I think you missed the bit where he said "At half-time, if we haven't already scored at least three goals, employing Plan A,. he instructs them to follow Plan B"

Burnley was that match .

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

I'm not talking about a team that had surrendered even before they trotted out on the pitch, as Burnley was.
I'm talking about 'football teams': y'know, 11 players who want to play.

And I'm sure you'll recall that until we got that penalty, to go one up against Birmingham, they were dealing very capably with whatever we threw at them.
And 'Plan A' had to be modified, anyhow, since they really didn't want to attack us, so were left with no alternative.

I can honestly say, although I don't think I said so here in advance of the game, but I was telling friends, and said so elsewhere, that I expected that over-cautious Plan A against ManUre on Saturday.
And what infuriates me is that this was a team which were on their 'downers', and we handed them the initiative.
So by the time the second half started, they had control of the game and were confident they could take us

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Lol I think you missed the bit where he said "At half-time, if we haven't already scored at least three goals, employing Plan A,. he instructs them to follow Plan B"

Burnley was that match .

Yep, that was deliberately inserted, Douglas!

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

I must have been watching a diff game to you then.

shawzy wrote:

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

I must have been watching a diff game to you then.

Me also
We were wretched.

That was a poor Man U team, which took the field on Saturday like lambs to a slaughter and went out like a lion.
But still I can see this Spurs beating them

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Lol I think you missed the bit where he said "At half-time, if we haven't already scored at least three goals, employing Plan A,. he instructs them to follow Plan B"

Burnley was that match .

And weather had nothing to do in second half.

You have become one of the biggest and consistent moaners since your idol left the club.

The Original Special One wrote:

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

I'm not talking about a team that had surrendered even before they trotted out on the pitch, as Burnley was.
I'm talking about 'football teams': y'know, 11 players who want to play.

And I'm sure you'll recall that until we got that penalty, to go one up against Birmingham, they were dealing very capably with whatever we threw at them.
And 'Plan A' had to be modified, anyhow, since they really didn't want to attack us, so were left with no alternative.

I can honestly say, although I don't think I said so here in advance of the game, but I was telling friends, and said so elsewhere, that I expected that over-cautious Plan A against ManUre on Saturday.
And what infuriates me is that this was a team which were on their 'downers', and we handed them the initiative.
So by the time the second half started, they had control of the game and were confident they could take us

I don't disagree with what you say about the scum game. I think we really could have gone for the jugular with more urgency in the early parts of the first half but I think you're being harsh about how we've been in recent weeks. What you see as an over cautious, negative approach to games we've won by 4 or more goals?, I see as tactically calculated performances that worked and resulted in us scoring for fun. I really cant see how any rational fan can have a problem with a 6-1 and 5-1 victory?

Everyone sees a game differently, that is pretty clear, but regardless of whether you think we should have attacked more or whatever in the derby, we were unlucky not to get 3 points. Thats a fact. We had good chances at 0-0 in the last 10 minutes after restricting the team second in the league and with a goal difference of +51 to very few chances.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Lol I think you missed the bit where he said "At half-time, if we haven't already scored at least three goals, employing Plan A,. he instructs them to follow Plan B"

Burnley was that match .

And weather had nothing to do in second half.

You have become one of the biggest and consistent moaners since your idol left the club.

what a load of absolute horseshit

god you can be a TOTAL cock at times

Firstly, if you actually read DH's training posts when Hughes was here....never mind actually the posts where he voiced his own views/reservations/direct criticisms of management/performances then it was palpably clear that Mark Hughes was no idol of Doug's.

Like many of us he had reservations...at times quite significant ones. He kept some of the direct criticism out of his training reports as it was well known that they were read and, in order to maintain access to be able to report FOR US, THE FORUM, it was a wise thing to do. He wasn't blindly loyal to Hughes, Bowen or anyone else and to suggest he was is cuntishness of the highest order.

Unfortunately you spent Hughes entire tenure with your head up your own fucking arse banging the same anti-Hughes drum...usually laughably blindly....which is why the high esteem in which I...and many other posters...held you dropped so dramatically.

Doug has not been whining throughout Mancini's tenure to date. He's been positive when appropriate and critical when that is warranted. Much like most of us were during Hughes' tenure. Nothing has actually changed apart from the fact that you have gone from being incapable/unwilling to see any positives during the previous manager's reign to being equally incapable/unwilling of acknowledging the most glaringly obvious negatives under the current regime.

We haven't been negative in the 1st half of games recently. He made a right arse of the tactics & formations for quite a period of time but then recently it seemed as if he'd realised it was hampering the team & has been trying to attack. He was doing great imo.

Saturday he picked an attacking team but either couldn't motivate them or instructed them to be too negative. Then when the chance to win it came as the game opened up, he realised that the 2 teams were going at each other & he wasn't in control of proceedings. Ferguson threw oil on the fire & helped it burn. Mancini's arse went & he tried to get tactical control & handed it to them on a plate. It left me wishing we'd had a genuine attacking manager rather than a reluctant one.

I'm not sure Mancini will grow the balls to do what Ferguson did but I hope he does because I like him.

ant london wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Lol I think you missed the bit where he said "At half-time, if we haven't already scored at least three goals, employing Plan A,. he instructs them to follow Plan B"

Burnley was that match .

And weather had nothing to do in second half.

You have become one of the biggest and consistent moaners since your idol left the club.

what a load of absolute horseshit

god you can be a TOTAL cock at times

Firstly, if you actually read DH's training posts when Hughes was here....never mind actually the posts where he voiced his own views/reservations/direct criticisms of management/performances then it was palpably clear that Mark Hughes was no idol of Doug's.

Like many of us he had reservations...at times quite significant ones. He kept some of the direct criticism out of his training reports as it was well known that they were read and, in order to maintain access to be able to report FOR US, THE FORUM, it was a wise thing to do. He wasn't blindly loyal to Hughes, Bowen or anyone else and to suggest he was is cuntishness of the highest order.

Unfortunately you spent Hughes entire tenure with your head up your own fucking arse banging the same anti-Hughes drum...usually laughably blindly....which is why the high esteem in which I...and many other posters...held you dropped so dramatically.

Doug has not been whining throughout Mancini's tenure to date. He's been positive when appropriate and critical when that is warranted. Much like most of us were during Hughes' tenure. Nothing has actually changed apart from the fact that you have gone from being incapable/unwilling to see any positives during the previous manager's reign to being equally incapable/unwilling of acknowledging the most glaringly obvious negatives under the current regime.

We are talking about a feller who has consistently been moaning after every single game we won. Never mind lost or drawn.

I think the following sums it up best for me.

"Nothing has actually changed apart from the fact that you have gone from being incapable/unwilling to see any positives during the previous manager's reign to being equally incapable/unwilling of acknowledging the most glaringly obvious negatives under the current regime."

Plus the apparent fact that if I post anything you love to jump on it to have ago. That's fine as it does make me laugh and especially so when I can post something almost as a red rag/joke ( as I did on this thread) and you come storming in with your blinkered views. I am probably a little pessimistic by nature when it comes to City in that I often fear the worst but I guess that's in keeping with many others who have supported them for a long time.

I do not believe that I have "consistently been moaning after every single game we won. Never mind lost or drawn." I might have added what I considered realism to the euphoria of others.My regular concern has been about 2 things which actually might be the same.They are why we seem to start sluggishly so often and why it seems the tactics we start with often have to change before we really get going.There was a recent post showing some stats to "prove" Mancini is better than Hughes and I suggested it was the wrong time for such stats ( clevely timed though) .I hate those type of stats anyway but if they are to be produced lets do them at the end of the season after a run of tough games and not just before them.


Ant is right that I do have concerns about Mancini as I did with Hughes but I strongly want Mancini to stay as manager for at least the full next season.I honestly don't know if he is the right man to lead us to the top just as I wasn't sure Hughes was but I support (ed) them both.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Lol I think you missed the bit where he said "At half-time, if we haven't already scored at least three goals, employing Plan A,. he instructs them to follow Plan B"

Burnley was that match .

And weather had nothing to do in second half.

You have become one of the biggest and consistent moaners since your idol left the club.

What a fucking poxy post to direct at one of the most dedicated blues we have on this site. You say Mark Hughes is his idol? Well doug might be too nice to say it to you but you're a right cunt for intimating such total shit. You're calling him a rag. Shame on you.

And you've moved further from reality since YOUR idol joined the club. You never have one bad word to say about a performance and every cunt on this site knows your double standards stink to high heaven. We always seem to be "unlucky" now or "everything was spot on, the players didn't do their jobs" and lots of other excuses. You also rip into anyone who dares question why we've only beaten ONE team from the top 8 under Mancini, or who even dares to question the manner of a performance.

Get fucking REAL. You don't have to slate him, but you'd be taken a lot more seriously if every now and then you gave even 1% of the criticism you gave to Hughes.

You should be ashamed at that post IMO. You honestly should.

Original Dub wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Lol I think you missed the bit where he said "At half-time, if we haven't already scored at least three goals, employing Plan A,. he instructs them to follow Plan B"

Burnley was that match .

And weather had nothing to do in second half.

You have become one of the biggest and consistent moaners since your idol left the club.

What a fucking poxy post to direct at one of the most dedicated blues we have on this site. You say Mark Hughes is his idol? Well doug might be too nice to say it to you but you're a right cunt for intimating such total shit. You're calling him a rag. Shame on you.

And you've moved further from reality since YOUR idol joined the club. You never have one bad word to say about a performance and every cunt on this site knows your double standards stink to high heaven. We always seem to be "unlucky" now or "everything was spot on, the players didn't do their jobs" and lots of other excuses. You also rip into anyone who dares question why we've only beaten ONE team from the top 8 under Mancini, or who even dares to question the manner of a performance.

Get fucking REAL. You don't have to slate him, but you'd be taken a lot more seriously if every now and then you gave even 1% of the criticism you gave to Hughes.

You should be ashamed at that post IMO. You honestly should.

Where the fuck did I say that?????? Outrageous allegetion.

Original Dub wrote:What a fucking poxy post to direct at one of the most dedicated blues we have on this site. You say Mark Hughes is his idol? Well doug might be too nice to say it to you but you're a right cunt for intimating such total shit. You're calling him a rag. Shame on you.

And you've moved further from reality since YOUR idol joined the club. You never have one bad word to say about a performance and every cunt on this site knows your double standards stink to high heaven. We always seem to be "unlucky" now or "everything was spot on, the players didn't do their jobs" and lots of other excuses. You also rip into anyone who dares question why we've only beaten ONE team from the top 8 under Mancini, or who even dares to question the manner of a performance.

Get fucking REAL. You don't have to slate him, but you'd be taken a lot more seriously if every now and then you gave even 1% of the criticism you gave to Hughes.

You should be ashamed at that post IMO. You honestly should.

Fuck off munich.

DougH is one of the best posters on the site, generally giving a balanced view. He has been consistent in praising and criticising both the current and past manager without apparent bias. For the most two-faced and biased poster on the site to make the allegations and comments about Doug is beyond belief.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Original Dub wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Kiss_The_Goat wrote:All i'm going to say is 5-0 up away from home at half time - how is that the result of a cautious Plan A? Sorry but your argument is bollox mate.
Everyones disappointed we lost the derby but we've been in scintillating form in the last few weeks, scoring for fun and were unlucky to not take all 3 points on Saturday. You're right with Sunderland though. That was one of the most Jekyll and Hyde performances ive ever seen.
Bring on the Arse. We'll beat them, Spurs will lose to the scum, the ash cloud will fuck off and everything will be lovely again.

Lol I think you missed the bit where he said "At half-time, if we haven't already scored at least three goals, employing Plan A,. he instructs them to follow Plan B"

Burnley was that match .

And weather had nothing to do in second half.

You have become one of the biggest and consistent moaners since your idol left the club.

What a fucking poxy post to direct at one of the most dedicated blues we have on this site. You say Mark Hughes is his idol? Well doug might be too nice to say it to you but you're a right cunt for intimating such total shit. You're calling him a rag. Shame on you.

And you've moved further from reality since YOUR idol joined the club. You never have one bad word to say about a performance and every cunt on this site knows your double standards stink to high heaven. We always seem to be "unlucky" now or "everything was spot on, the players didn't do their jobs" and lots of other excuses. You also rip into anyone who dares question why we've only beaten ONE team from the top 8 under Mancini, or who even dares to question the manner of a performance.

Get fucking REAL. You don't have to slate him, but you'd be taken a lot more seriously if every now and then you gave even 1% of the criticism you gave to Hughes.

You should be ashamed at that post IMO. You honestly should.

Where the fuck did I say that?????? Outrageous allegetion.

i dont agree that you called him a rag, but i do with the double standards part. they are there for all too see. your original post wasnt a good one dude.