If we don't finish in the top 4.

[Spurge]

If we don't finish in the top 4..........it will be all Hughes' fault

[Dazzacity]

I was waiting for someone to mention targets.

Sven = Top half and got sacked
Hughes = 6th and was sacked whilst we were in 6th

Would Mancini go if he doesn't get 4th? Only if Cook follows him, IMHO.

But they changed Hughes' goal after he spent so much on players. Im sure they changed it to forth , which is fair.. On our form under Hughes, I think we can all agree that 4th dint look likely

You can't set a target and change it half way through the season. And everything like budget and transfer targets must have been agreed in advance. It's far more likely that they decided 4th was more realistic given the strength of the Squad and they appointed a man more likely to achieve it once the initial Wins had dried up. Either way, City don't stick with Managers. Royle, Keegan (allegedly told to piss off), Pearce, Sven, Hughes: All sacked.

I think the top 4 battle will be clearer after this weekend.

Edit: I've read the whole thing and would be happy with 5th and no major changes. We've barely been in 4th all season. Expecting it is unrealistic and is setting us up for disappointment.

Ill have to disagree with you there..If you was running a factory ,for example , you would have an annual target. If that factory then installed a few more machines, you would expect the firm to review those targets .

As for 4th spot.We're so close,Id be gutted if we didnt get it..We have had so many chances to push away and have fooked it up everytime..

[Slim]

If we don't finish in the top 4.

We will next year.

[yankmanc]

Part of me would be slightly disappointed. With the calibre of players we have now we should be challenging for titles. 5th would be a failure.

Though of course remembering the past and looking forward to our future, it's hard to stay too disappointed for long.

I hear this line of reasoning a lot and though I support our players I don't think it matches up with reality. Most of the big names that we've brought in have been second choice for top clubs (Tevez, Bridge, Toure, Vieira) or troubled/on their way out anyway (Adebayor). The couple of genuine starters that we poached from "smaller" clubs have had injury problems and/or hugely underperformed (Lescott, Santa Cruz). Our top performers were here last year and are not globally recognized worldbeaters by any stretch (Zabs, De Jong, Bellamy, Kompany). The only acquisition who has really fulfilled promise has had a couple of rough patches as well (Barry).

Given all of this, I actually think our squad right now worth about 4-6 place. In that sense we've overachieved and we're lucky to be in the mix for 4th.

BUT, if we don't get 4th I won't help but be disappointed because of the WAY that we arrived there:
- Liverpool's laughable season which won't happen too often
- Untd's last second winner and continued title challenge
- Losing out on 4th to Spurs!

Our squad at the moment is the kind of squad you can assemble with a good homegrown base plus some money. Champions League would allow us to add some recognized world class players and THEN we would be on our way for challenging for the league.

I agree with you mate. I think hes right IMO.

I'd be GUTTED if we didnt get fourth as it was in our hands. At the start of the season i expected 6th but privately wanted a push for 4th. Its more gutting if we didnt get it becasue of the other factors mentioned.

BUT; im sick of the arguement that we bought many class players.

The only genuine class players we have bought were robinho and tevez. Both around 30 million. Robinho was amazing in his first season. Tevez has scored nearly 30 goals in his first season. There signings I would say were successful (although robinho poses question marks)


The rest:
Ade = causes trouble / often lazy and was in reality our second choice to signing Eto (who just wanted the money anyway).
Toure and Lesscott are also what I would consider 'B' defenders. Although Lescott is younger and english and i do have high hopes for him. They were also back ups for John Terry (at the time i wanted lescott more, as again he would have been another mercenary. Imagine the problems we could have had if we hit a bad spell with terry and eto in the team).

I almost forgot; Barry. IMO he comes after tevez as our other big player because he was amazing last season, young, english and wanted by liverpool who were more of a force at the time.

January:
AJ: not as big a signing as any of the above, but you can argue he could be one of the best signings as he genuinely has the hunger to be successful with the club (regardless of his poor show on saturday).

Our squad is not capable of winning the league IMO. Our two best players last season have dissappeared. Our defence is dodgy; and our most consistent players are still the lads that put 110% in every game and were here before the take over e.g. de jong, kompany. On saturday there was nobody i was happy to come off the bench and change the game. SWP and Stevie really need to sort themselves out; I just dunno what has gone wrong with stevie.

Thank you for adding details. Part of the reason I don't post much is because it's almost impossible for me to time it right to engage in a back and forth.

I will clarify that I didn't say that our entire squad is second rate, but just that they were mostly second choice. Tevez is clearly class but he was a wee bit of a gamble at whatever crazy price we paid.

And even if our squad matches up fairly well on paper with the top 6 sides, for the most part those teams have been playing together much longer than us. This is another reason why we need Stevie and SWP to gel again so badly (though I think SWP hasn't been nearly as bad as people make out; he still gets me out of my seat whenever he gets on the ball).

4th would be a triumph but it's in our reach so let's go boyz!

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Mancini was brought in to get 4th and if he doesnt then I want Mourinho....if we cant get Mourinho then stick with Mancini.

Brutal but fair Imo.

I was waiting for someone to mention targets.

Sven = Top half and got sacked
Hughes = 6th and was sacked whilst we were in 6th

Would Mancini go if he doesn't get 4th? Only if Cook follows him, IMHO.

Technically we were 8th when decision over Hughes sacking was made. And it has since become apparent that top six was Hughes' own target rather than owners. And let's face it, you own the ball so you decide the rules.

[john68]

Not wishing to enhance any Hughes debate Antti, I distictly remember that when Hughes was sacked, the statement was that 70pts was his given target. Hughes was 6pts short of the schedule with 2 games to play. Hughes made a big point of publicising that. I remember checking his statement and the maths were correct at the time.

Regarding not reaching 4th place, I will be very disappointed in the short term if we fail to make it, but will be happy to celebrate that we have made such rapid progress from our starting position, in such a very short time. I will also be content in the knowledge that the project goes on and I fully expect us to continue to improve.

Our resources should make our success inevitable. Unlike most clubs who have to live with their mistakes, we can afford to put them right and continue to do so until it is right.

[Slim]

Not wishing to enhance any Hughes debate Antti, I distictly remember that when Hughes was sacked, the statement was that 70pts was his given target. Hughes was 6pts short of the schedule with 2 games to play. Hughes made a big point of publicising that. I remember checking his statement and the maths were correct at the time.

Regarding not reaching 4th place, I will be very disappointed in the short term if we fail to make it, but will be happy to celebrate that we have made such rapid progress from our starting position, in such a very short time. I will also be content in the knowledge that the project goes on and I fully expect us to continue to improve.

Our resources should make our success inevitable. Unlike most clubs who have to live with their mistakes, we can afford to put them right and continue to do so until it is right.

Well yes I suppose if he counts two unplayed games as wins then he would be on target, but in that respect I am sure he could have counted all 21 unplayed games as wins and claim we were on target to finish with 92 points. He was on 29 from 17, which plainly was not on target for 70 points and we were sitting in 8th.

70 points? 6th? 4th? He wasn't on target for any of them and I am sure he wasn't about to say "yeah, I fucked up", rather he just let the tabloid media crucify the club for making a choice they believed in their best interests. If we make 4th now I wonder how much of a big deal the same media will make of it, claiming it as validation and the right choice? I am betting not.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Not wishing to enhance any Hughes debate Antti, I distictly remember that when Hughes was sacked, the statement was that 70pts was his given target. Hughes was 6pts short of the schedule with 2 games to play. Hughes made a big point of publicising that. I remember checking his statement and the maths were correct at the time.

Regarding not reaching 4th place, I will be very disappointed in the short term if we fail to make it, but will be happy to celebrate that we have made such rapid progress from our starting position, in such a very short time. I will also be content in the knowledge that the project goes on and I fully expect us to continue to improve.

Our resources should make our success inevitable. Unlike most clubs who have to live with their mistakes, we can afford to put them right and continue to do so until it is right.

Well yes I suppose if he counts two unplayed games as wins then he would be on target, but in that respect I am sure he could have counted all 21 unplayed games as wins and claim we were on target to finish with 92 points. He was on 29 from 17, which plainly was not on target for 70 points and we were sitting in 8th.

70 points? 6th? 4th? He wasn't on target for any of them and I am sure he wasn't about to say "yeah, I fucked up", rather he just let the tabloid media crucify the club for making a choice they believed in their best interests. If we make 4th now I wonder how much of a big deal the same media will make of it, claiming it as validation and the right choice? I am betting not.

That's pretty much right on the money.

Nothing in Hughes' performance as manager would indicate that we were surefire to win the two games. Besides, the way I see it, all those ridiculous drawn games is what is hindering us now. Turning just two of those into wins and we would be cruising to top 4. I believe that those were the reason why Hughes got the boot. He couldn't manage THE most important feat needed as first step to top, to beat lesser teams consistently. The way the game has been since introduction of three points for win is that draw is "almost loss" rather than "near win" it used to be.

Regarding media, it's interesting that despite constantly being HIGHLY critical of Mancini (has a game gone by where it hasn't been mentioned that we've lost more games under Mancini than Hughes...... despite the fact that we have miles more points per game??) none of them have been willing to raise their hands up and admit that at very least it wasn't bad thing to sack one of their favourite boys. Then again, same goes whenever a former rag gets a boot and someone else is installed. I mean how long was managerial no-talent like Bryan Robson backed by media? Whenever his teams won a game, not often admitted, they were screaming him for England job or AT VERY LEAST job in one of the top 4 teams.

[Socrates]

Agreed largely with every post in this thread until CARL opened his big GOB. Mourinho is in the process of taking the team Mancini built from 1st to 2nd. Yes he always does ok for 18 months or so when handed a ready built team but why on earth should we go for such a short term fix when we know we have a manager who has a record of building a team and a record of bringing through Academy players?

If Mancini's points per game ratio would have got us 4th if he'd had a whole season then it would be completely insane to sack him even if we miss out. If it isn't it would still be a bit mad to replace him as he clearly has the credentials to build the squad we need to take us further!

[ross.mcfc]

Agreed largely with every post in this thread until CARL opened his big GOB. Mourinho is in the process of taking the team Mancini built from 1st to 2nd. Yes he always does ok for 18 months or so when handed a ready built team but why on earth should we go for such a short term fix when we know we have a manager who has a record of building a team and a record of bringing through Academy players?

I dont remember the previous coach of Porto having them on the verge of UEFA Cup or CL glory.

I dont remember Chelsea being on the cusp of title. I do remember them being a distant second to Arsenal.

I dont remember Mancini getting passed the last 16 of the CL or beating any English club on the way to there eventual early knock out.

Mourinho has taken Inter to the next level and beyond and Mancini has little or nothing to do with it.

Like most I wouldnt sack Mancini at the end of the season. Unless it's Mourinho that incoming. If Mancini keeps his job Mourinho will either be the next Real manager this season, or the United Manager the next season.

How close to any of those jobs would Mancini get if he suddenly become free at the end of this year?

[Socrates]

Agreed largely with every post in this thread until CARL opened his big GOB. Mourinho is in the process of taking the team Mancini built from 1st to 2nd. Yes he always does ok for 18 months or so when handed a ready built team but why on earth should we go for such a short term fix when we know we have a manager who has a record of building a team and a record of bringing through Academy players?

I dont remember the previous coach of Porto having them on the verge of UEFA Cup or CL glory.

I dont remember Chelsea being on the cusp of title. I do remember them being a distant second to Arsenal.

I dont remember Mancini getting passed the last 16 of the CL or beating any English club on the way to there eventual early knock out.

Mourinho has taken Inter to the next level and beyond and Mancini has little or nothing to do with it.

Like most I wouldnt sack Mancini at the end of the season. Unless it's Mourinho that incoming. If Mancini keeps his job Mourinho will either be the next Real manager this season, or the U***d Manager the next season.

How close to any of those jobs would Mancini get if he suddenly become free at the end of this year?

Check the Serie A table Ross, Mourinho takes teams to the next level briefly then destroys from within! He did that at Chelski he is doing it now at Inter! Champions League at Porto he won by boring every fucker to death, he continues to employ those same tactics no matter how good his players. He is a false Messiah who offers an illusion of early success. Mancini has a good Cup record, it is only a matter of time before he breaks through in the Champions League, 3 years is a very small sample of results to judge from in that competition.

[john@staustell]

Although Spuds, Villa and the Dippers have all hit a purple patch, I still reckon we can take it. We lost an in-the-balance game to Scum where we didn´t look outplayed, and had the better of the second half, on merit, until the 92nd minute. I dont believe Villa or Spuds (AWAY) come close to being as good as Scum usually were against us. So it´s down to us to slam both at Eastlands. A win at the Emirates would sure help, and for Spuds to lose at the Swamp. I certainly wouldn´t discount either.

But if we dont get 4th, life goes on. Someone else will have deserved it so we press on safe in the knowledge - unlike any other team in the league - that we will most certainly improve next season.

[btajim]

Agreed largely with every post in this thread until CARL opened his big GOB. Mourinho is in the process of taking the team Mancini built from 1st to 2nd. Yes he always does ok for 18 months or so when handed a ready built team but why on earth should we go for such a short term fix when we know we have a manager who has a record of building a team and a record of bringing through Academy players?

I dont remember the previous coach of Porto having them on the verge of UEFA Cup or CL glory.

I dont remember Chelsea being on the cusp of title. I do remember them being a distant second to Arsenal.

I dont remember Mancini getting passed the last 16 of the CL or beating any English club on the way to there eventual early knock out.

Mourinho has taken Inter to the next level and beyond and Mancini has little or nothing to do with it.

Like most I wouldnt sack Mancini at the end of the season. Unless it's Mourinho that incoming. If Mancini keeps his job Mourinho will either be the next Real manager this season, or the U***d Manager the next season.

How close to any of those jobs would Mancini get if he suddenly become free at the end of this year?

Agree 100%.

[btajim]

Check the Serie A table Ross, Mourinho takes teams to the next level briefly then destroys from within! He did that at Chelski he is doing it now at Inter! Champions League at Porto he won by boring every fucker to death, he continues to employ those same tactics no matter how good his players. He is a false Messiah who offers an illusion of early success. Mancini has a good Cup record, it is only a matter of time before he breaks through in the Champions League, 3 years is a very small sample of results to judge from in that competition.

Mourinho took Chelsea to two successive Titles and they've not won the League since he left.

Mancini's cup record at City so far is appauling. Out of the Carling Cup in his own debut and out of the FA Cup to Stoke by failing to see them off in a Home Match.

You used Mancini's age as a reason why he did nothing in Europe. Barca won it last season with a young man in charge. I think I'd rather have a Champions League winner in charge then someone who isn't proven.

[Original Dub]

Its been mentioned int his thread that if it weren't for the draws earlier in the season when the team were getting to know each other that we'd be "cruising to fourth".

If it weren't for losing to fucking hull and everton twice we'd have 9 extra points on the board too.

We can't keep going over this, these two men have gotten us where we are now and we have to be extremely thankful to both of course. The thing is, the change was made to achieve fourth, rightly or wrongly and no matter how some of you try to dress it up so that if we don't land there its "ok"; and no matter how some of you try to say that Mancini's definite target is fourth - you all know well the guy was brought in to achieve fourth.

I like the man and we've dismantled some shitty teams under him like I've never seen us do, but he won a very weakened league in Italy and everytime he faced a top side in europe he ultimately failed.

I hate to say it again, but everytime he faces a top 8 side here in the league, he ultimately fails.... Chelsea being the obvious exception. I want him to prove the doubters wrong, I really do, but he has SO FAR shown that we can smack shit out of the little teams who try to play football, we can get out fought by the physical teams and we are shit scared of the top teams.

With three top teams coming in the next few weeks, I'm scared of how he'll want us to play and I can't understand why some of you aren't?

That said, I watched the Liverpool players completely take over their style of play when they knew they were in with a chance of achieving a long standing goal last season. I don't care what anyone says, Benitez did not fire all his tactics out the window and tell them to start playing like Barca, they did it themselves and they DISMANTLED nearly every team they faced in style.
I'm hoping our players do the same.

[brite blu sky]

That said, I watched the Liverpool players completely take over their style of play when they knew they were in with a chance of achieving a long standing goal last season. I don't care what anyone says, Benitez did not fire all his tactics out the window and tell them to start playing like Barca, they did it themselves and they DISMANTLED nearly every team they faced in style.
I'm hoping our players do the same.

very much thinking the same. There has been a lot of evidence this season that this team is capable of doing this, although it has usually been inspired by going 1 down and getting kicked into gear. When it has happened though we have seen how good the team can be. Mancini has brought a new level of discipline it seems, but when the chips are down it is up to the players on the pitch to get on with it. Seems to me the transition from Hughes to Mancini had the effect of giving players too much to think about and make sure they did correctly. We have see the benefits eventually of having a discipline that is more of a second nature. But when and if it comes to a crunch in any of the next 4 games i would expect that these players revert back to form and take things into their own hands by going gung ho.

[btajim]

I like the man and we've dismantled some shitty teams under him like I've never seen us do, but he won a very weakened league in Italy and everytime he faced a top side in europe he ultimately failed.

I hate to say it again, but everytime he faces a top 8 side here in the league, he ultimately fails.... Chelsea being the obvious exception. I want him to prove the doubters wrong, I really do, but he has SO FAR shown that we can smack shit out of the little teams who try to play football, we can get out fought by the physical teams and we are shit scared of the top teams.

I don't dislike Mancini as a Man either. I think he's charming and eloquent. I'd shake his hand.

Fully agree with you, though. I'm dreading Arsenal, Spurs and Villa.

[lets all have a disco]

I like the man and we've dismantled some shitty teams under him like I've never seen us do, but he won a very weakened league in Italy and everytime he faced a top side in europe he ultimately failed.

I hate to say it again, but everytime he faces a top 8 side here in the league, he ultimately fails.... Chelsea being the obvious exception. I want him to prove the doubters wrong, I really do, but he has SO FAR shown that we can smack shit out of the little teams who try to play football, we can get out fought by the physical teams and we are shit scared of the top teams.

I don't dislike Mancini as a Man either. I think he's charming and eloquent. I'd shake his hand.

Fully agree with you, though. I'm dreading Arsenal, Spurs and Villa.

Thank fuck ive found people who are thinking with their heads and not their cocks.

[Slim]

I like the man and we've dismantled some shitty teams under him like I've never seen us do, but he won a very weakened league in Italy and everytime he faced a top side in europe he ultimately failed.

I hate to say it again, but everytime he faces a top 8 side here in the league, he ultimately fails.... Chelsea being the obvious exception. I want him to prove the doubters wrong, I really do, but he has SO FAR shown that we can smack shit out of the little teams who try to play football, we can get out fought by the physical teams and we are shit scared of the top teams.

I don't dislike Mancini as a Man either. I think he's charming and eloquent. I'd shake his hand.

Fully agree with you, though. I'm dreading Arsenal, Spurs and Villa.

Thank fuck ive found people who are thinking with their heads and not their cocks.

No, you've found people I wouldn't want at the ground as nervousness resonates and we need to SUCK IT THE FUCK UP and get behind the team now more than ever.

[brite blu sky]

i am getting a real strong sense that a lot of people are starting to bottle it, worried as fucl, clammed up and looking at the half empty glass..

please tell me im wrong