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Reading through a few different threads tonight got me thinking about the topic of where we're potentially getting some of our players from. There seems to be a debate raging about whether certain players (a.k.a Milner) are good enough to join us, and whether we'd benefit more from concentrating on buying players from teams above/with a higher profile than ourselves, to properly progress.

It's interesting and I thought a thread in itself to discuss it might be worthwhile.

My own point of view is that in a lot of cases, these players from 'inferior' sides thrive under a higher quality of conditions/teammates/management and therefore grow into world class players over a period of time. Looking at the country's top two sides at the moment you'll see influential players signed from the likes of Wigan, Fulham, Bolton and Everton.
Would it not be fair to assume in Milner, or Arteta, or Hangeland (I know we're not linked to him) that their high levels of performance would stand a good chance of improving vastly when accompanied by better teammates?

It just seems that with high profile signings there comes a huge weight of expectation- if you're Robinho or Kaká or Torres your every move is scrutinised and a lot of the 'megastars' just don't seem to cope very well under those circumstances. Think of all the supposed world beaters who've flopped miserably in England over the years.

A side issue is mentality. City could go off and spend £800million and still finish 5th next season. Look at Réal Madrid- not a sausage in return for all the expenditure and hype that went with it last Summer. Having eleven players that cost a shitload and used to play for one of the elite sides in Europe is no guarantee of success- in fact it might even be a hindrance. The likelihood is that those players saw a big pot of gold and ran as fast as possible towards it. With players from midtable sides, of course a better wage is attractive, but it's a natural career progression. Even Villa to City, today in 2010 is (an albeit small) step forward. If players are moving backwards, ala Robinho at the time of his arrival, you have to question their true motive.

If you move to City now from a smaller club, you're instantly not as significant as you used to be. You're not the big fish in a small pond, so you have to work hard to impress everyone and show that you're good enough to be in their company. I just feel that these players, the best of the rest, might have more natural desire and willingness to improve themselves and work hard for the cause, rather than coming with a 'world owes me a living' attitude.

Thoughts?

Top post CTK, and i agree 100%. As much as i'd love the very top player's to be at City i think buying player's like Milner and Arteta would be great for the club, they would really put in the work to try to be the best. And having the top players like Tevez and Ade around them will only help them to improve.

A few more Adam Johnson's of the world, sprinkled with a few John Guidetti's plus a Tevez/Kaka = My MCFC Heaven.

Great post...as usual Eoin....smartarse...:-)

I go back to something I have posted previously, that it is TEAMS that win trophies. It is underlined by something that Jose Mourinho said too. "We have a team of superstars, all trying to make the team the superstar."

I think much depends on how an incoming player views our club. Though we, as City fans, see a big club aiming for the very top, many will see us differently. We haven't won anything for so long and our recent history is quite poor. To many, we are a mediocre but very rich club, not yet competing in the CL. For those elite players, City would be a step down and to some like Robinho, beneath their egotistical standard.

As Eoin says, we need players who are talented and will readily buy into our project. Players willing to play for the team and put their own egos to one side in the City cause.

For the most part we don't have much of a choice anyway; most of the true 'A' list players won't come. Our choice will mainly be between 'up & coming' players or players who, for whatever reason, can't get into the 'top' sides/players who have something to they want to achieve & see us as a good opportunity to do it .

If we're going to challenge for the league though, we need to balance out the signing of promising players with one or two who've done it before, or at least are proven 'big game' players. It was clear that the rags have more of those type of players than we do, Even thoughf some are almost 'past it', they stepped up to the plate at crucial times when needed whereas some of our top players went missing at crucial times.

However much talent is posessed by the younger players we will no doubt sign, we won't find out if they have the mentality to go that extra distance until they're actually put to the test. Unless we're very lucky, some will be found wanting. Therefore if we want to take that step now rather than wait for years, we need to sign one or two proven performers to help get us there.

Imo out of the whole squad, so far only Tevez & Bellamy have really proved beyond doubt that they have what it takes to regularly produce the goods in the real big games & even they have under performed in a couple. That's to be expected though; even the top players will go missing in the odd games & that's why we need 7-8 more to either step up to that level or be brought in to the club.

Hard too top anything thats already been written in this thread, by some of the boards top posters. And for me, is easily the best made argument, for signing the likes of Milner Arteta, and Scott Parker. All 3 players would bring guile and passion to the club and take us to the next level.

I think it's the spine of a good side that's needed. What do they say? Don't get gold taps before you've installed the plumbing etc. That's the mistake we made with Robinho.

Keeper
Centre Halves
Midfield General
Goalscoring Striker

I don't think we're that far off. Toure and Lescott leaking too many Goals over the 7 League draws era didn't particularly help a bid for Top 4 - and we only finished a couple of points behind Tottenham by the end of the season. If we improve on that next season then we're getting there and staying there.

Look at Chelsea as an example. The spine of that side have been playing together for years (Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba) and now they've won the double for the first time.

I think Arteta and Milner are 2 brilliant targets who would improve us no end add to that Luiz and Boeteng and possibly even Ibra (though I reckon we'd have made our move by now for the latter, probably won't happen) then we've got a squad that I think can challenge for the top honours

I agree. Im just not 100% on milner, probably because of the fee and the fact they want one of our home growns.

U make a good point re: hangeland - why the fuck didnt we go for him last summer instead of toure?!?!?!?! Everyone wanted him last summer.

personally i think you are right on the money there CtK.. and wrote something very similar in one of the rumour threads.

It is kind of funny how mentality and psychology play such a part in how footballers perform and the list of 'big' 'top' superstars making sideways moves and not performing is fuclin endless. Shevchenko anyone?

get them hungry and get them on their way up.. unless they have an identifyable attitude like Bellemy or Sheringham or Larsson.

I both agree and disagree with the buying players from "inferior" teams.

Some will take the step up and others will not. Sounds mystic but in reality I think it's combination of whether players attributes would fit the system/role in next club and mental strength and hunger to succeed. We are obviously talking about players who have been stand out in their previous club. There are lot of players who shine in team whose system favours their strenghts and in some instances are actually built around them. Then there are players who have glaring weaknesses in their games but less time in limelights in smaller clubs help to cover them. Furthermore, some players enjoy being big fish in small pond. There are also players who don't have that hunger to succeed at the very top but are happy with what they've got.

Now if we think about players. Milner for instance, he has got pace and great upper body strength. He has great shot in him as well. Also, he seems to have mental strength and real hunger to succeed although all that will be put in the great test when he actually goes to bigger and better club. However, my main worry with Milner is his lack of football brain. He doesn't really have speed of thought and creativity to play with clever and naturally talented players. While this is something he could improve in theory, we are in big pressure to deliver next season and whether Milner can succeed is debatable at this stage.

Now Arteta is for me a prime example of a player who I feel would be success in better club. He almost has to slower himself so that players around him in Everton can keep up with him. He can play numerous of positions in midfield and is able to take backseat and do basic things well as well as coming up with flair if needed. He seems like a big club player stuck in a small club (as far as the current success go). He is also entering the prime of his career and would be immediately ready to step up to team of winners.

Scott Parker mentioned on this topic is prime example of exact opposite. Talented and hard tackling but lacking the mental edge to play in a big club. He was like a lost child in Chelsea with players running circles around him as he couldn't adjust to role in just one member of excellent XI. Also, the weaknesses in his game was exposed quickly. Would be bad signing for club like ours.

But at this stage with very little else pulling power than money and "project", this is the kind of player we will have to settle for. We just have to be careful that we find the right kind of players who ready and able to make the step. Getting quality players from big clubs isn't really an option for us right now. Players we'd get from big clubs are the ones who have failed there and in most cases there's a reason why they weren't success there and for those reasons we need to avoid them.

As far as building the squad goes, we need balance. We need few players with experience of winning things who have been there and done that. To show how to do on the pitch but first and foremost on the changing room. We do also need more young and hungry players who are desperate to prove their credentials.

good points nqdp..

But at this stage with very little else pulling power than money and "project", this is the kind of player we will have to settle for. We just have to be careful that we find the right kind of players who ready and able to make the step. Getting quality players from big clubs isn't really an option for us right now. Players we'd get from big clubs are the ones who have failed there and in most cases there's a reason why they weren't success there and for those reasons we need to avoid them.

i think there is more to it than that.. any player that can only see as far as next season has a pretty poor attitude imo.

If you talk to any reasonably sensible Spurs fans they will tell you that over the coming seasons our prospects are far better than theirs. With the trajectory we are on we should be able to take players off any of our rivals.. IF those players are hungry enough.

As for the rest of it, your right about players like Arteta.. but i think you underestimate the club if you think that they also cannot spot the difference between an Arteta and a Scott Parker.
The key is to get the very best players on their way up.. but also experienced ones that still want to show they are the best at what they do.. Larsson springs to mind as i wrote above.

Take the forward mid position, we need a world class playmaker and an understudy, (so Ireland and Johnno can have a season to get back in the swing without relying on iether of them).
So which two players would you go for?

Player acquisitions? Is that you Garry?

Right Back
Left Back
2 X Central Midfield
Wide Player
Striker

Done

Box to box midfielder
Creative midfielder
Right back
Left back
Reserve striker
Wide player

Get shut of
Benjani
Sylvinho
Garrido
Petrov
Bellamy (if he is being a pain in the arse)
Ireland (if his toys are out of the pram)
Onouha

Jovetic - Left wing
Hazard - Right wing
Gourcuff - Attacking midfielder
Higuain - Striker
Clichy - Left back
Chiellini - Centre Half
Bosingwa - Right back

edge275 wrote:Jovetic - Left wing
Hazard - Right wing
Gourcuff - Attacking midfielder
Higuain - Striker
Clichy - Left back
Chiellini - Centre Half
Bosingwa - Right back

So Jinky doesn't make your side?

Slim wrote:

edge275 wrote:Jovetic - Left wing
Hazard - Right wing
Gourcuff - Attacking midfielder
Higuain - Striker
Clichy - Left back
Chiellini - Centre Half
Bosingwa - Right back

So Jinky doesn't make your side?

I'd be more concerned with us only keeping four of our current first team and having to "gel" all over again...