Tick Tock Tick Tock

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Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Chopper » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:42 am

Manchester United's owners, the Glazer family, have suffered further embarrassing financial difficulties after four more of its US shopping malls recently fell into default on their mortgages. With the interest rate charged on United's enormous "payment-in-kind debts" rising from 14.25% to 16.25% this month, the news could hardly come at a worse time.

An investigation by the Guardian in conjunction with the BBC's Panorama programme and the investment analyst Andy Green in June found that of the 68 shopping malls owned by the Glazers' US-based First Allied Corporation, four had gone bust and one more had defaulted on its mortgage. An analysis of the malls' most recent financial disclosures has revealed that four more have since failed to pay their mortgages and become classified as "delinquent", with two falling into default this month.

The four malls are in Houston, Texas; Denver, Colorado and two in Ohio. That means nine, or 13%, of the Glazers' malls are now "delinquent" or insolvent, and a further 29 centres, 43%, have so many units empty the rental income does not cover the mortgage payments. First Allied is the only significant business the Florida-based family runs besides Manchester United and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers NFL franchise, and the bank disclosures show it making income above the malls' running costs of only US$9m a year.

These disclosures come at a particularly sensitive time considering United's own debts. The interest rate increase took effect this month, according to the most recent accounts filed by one of the Glazers' United companies.

According to Red Football Joint Venture Limited, the accounts for the year to 30 June 2009 recorded that United's total bank and other borrowings had swollen to £716m, all of it derived from the Glazers' original personal borrowings to buy the club in the first place in 2005. Of that, around £500m was owed to banks and refinanced in January with the issue of bonds at an average around 8.5% interest "yield" annually – £42.5m this year.

The payments in kind, originally owed to three hedge funds, had risen to £202m by 30 June last year, so at 14.25% have accrued a further £34m interest since. That interest is not paid but accumulates, so the Glazers' United companies now owe £236m to the hedge funds. The increased interest rate to 16.25% means that over the next year a further £38m will be added, swelling the total to £274m, unless a proportion of the hedge fund debt is paid off.

No public United documents explain why the interest rate has increased, but it has been reported that United were hit with it as a penalty clause because their debts have risen to more than five times the basic profit they make.

The club's chief executive, David Gill, has maintained that the payment-in-kind debts at these credit-card rates of interest are not the club's responsibility, but fall on the family to repay. However, it is not at all clear the Glazers have the resources from First Allied or elsewhere to meet these liabilities, and the bond document issued by United provides the right to take almost £130m out of the club. That can be used to pay towards the payment-in-kind debt if necessary.

Gill and the Glazers argue the club is unaffected by these debts, by far the largest external borrowings ever owed by an English football club, and that funds are available for the manager Sir Alex Ferguson to spend. The manager has said the transfer market is over-priced and it is his own choice this summer to have signed only Chris Smalling from Fulham, Javier Hernández from Guadalajara and the deal which has stunned football, the 20 year old Portuguese striker, Bébé, for £7.4m.

Yet Green – an investment analyst and United supporter who writes about the club's finances in his blog www.andersred.blogspot.com – said the latest disclosures from First Allied were a cause for further concern. "They show that the Glazer family's only significant other business is making almost no money, and certainly not generating the cash to reduce United's massive debts," he said. "The family's shopping malls are afflicted by low occupancy rates, more have fallen into default, and whatever David Gill says, there appears no doubt that Manchester United itself will be made to service these useless debts and pay huge interest payments, all money which could have been spent signing players."

Neither the spokesman for Manchester United nor the Glazer family were available for comment yesterday.
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby mcfc1632 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:38 am

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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Chopper » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:31 am

Surely you can do better than that?
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Fish111 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:27 am

The less money them yanks make the less money they can afford to invest in the scum and the more money they will actually take out of the club to finance their dying projects. Excellant news.
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Goaters 103 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:03 am

Season Ticket sales for the Tampa Bay Bucs are also plummeting. The first home pe-season game of the year was held last saturday, and in a 75k stadium the paid attendance was 41k but the actual attendance - ie people who turned up - came to just over 31k. Piss poor and indicative of how the Tampa area public feel about the team, and the way it is being run by Steptoe and Sons.

In short, Bucs fans think the Glazers debt is affecting their team and any money or profit made from the NFL is being used up to finance Man U. Long may the downward spiral continue.
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:09 am

Goaters 103 wrote:Season Ticket sales for the Tampa Bay Bucs are also plummeting. The first home pe-season game of the year was held last saturday, and in a 75k stadium the paid attendance was 41k but the actual attendance - ie people who turned up - came to just over 31k. Piss poor and indicative of how the Tampa area public feel about the team, and the way it is being run by Steptoe and Sons.

In short, Bucs fans think the Glazers debt is affecting their team and any money or profit made from the NFL is being used up to finance Man U. Long may the downward spiral continue.


So long as they don't sell up. We need them to keep bleeding the turds dry for as long as possible & then sell to some bunch of chancers like the 'Red Knights' who can't afford to put any money in & will probably do a similar thing but with yellow scrarves on.
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Florida Blue » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:18 am

Goaters 103 wrote:Season Ticket sales for the Tampa Bay Bucs are also plummeting. The first home pe-season game of the year was held last saturday, and in a 75k stadium the paid attendance was 41k but the actual attendance - ie people who turned up - came to just over 31k. Piss poor and indicative of how the Tampa area public feel about the team, and the way it is being run by Steptoe and Sons.

In short, Bucs fans think the Glazers debt is affecting their team and any money or profit made from the NFL is being used up to finance Man U. Long may the downward spiral continue.



This is a very poor example. When you buy season tickets to an NFL game you must purchase the pre-season games. Most people who were there were there because someone gave them a ticket, the ones that were not, couldn't find someone who wanted him. Pre-season football is pretty much a joke, especially in the first two weeks, since the front line players play for about a quarter and then after that it is guys who will never play a major, or any roll, at all in the NFL. The Miami Dolphins get an even worse pre-season turnout and the sell out every home game.

That said, the stadium is too big for that team to begin with (relative to the size of Tampa/St Pete), but it was built that big to be a Super Bowl host. The Stadium is owned by the county, not the team Their fans are very loyal, but in this economy, it just ain't happening.

The Bucs are profitable, but have been mortgaged to save Scum...
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Goaters 103 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:48 am

Florida Blue wrote:
Goaters 103 wrote:Season Ticket sales for the Tampa Bay Bucs are also plummeting. The first home pe-season game of the year was held last saturday, and in a 75k stadium the paid attendance was 41k but the actual attendance - ie people who turned up - came to just over 31k. Piss poor and indicative of how the Tampa area public feel about the team, and the way it is being run by Steptoe and Sons.

In short, Bucs fans think the Glazers debt is affecting their team and any money or profit made from the NFL is being used up to finance Man U. Long may the downward spiral continue.



This is a very poor example. When you buy season tickets to an NFL game you must purchase the pre-season games. Most people who were there were there because someone gave them a ticket, the ones that were not, couldn't find someone who wanted him. Pre-season football is pretty much a joke, especially in the first two weeks, since the front line players play for about a quarter and then after that it is guys who will never play a major, or any roll, at all in the NFL. The Miami Dolphins get an even worse pre-season turnout and the sell out every home game.

That said, the stadium is too big for that team to begin with (relative to the size of Tampa/St Pete), but it was built that big to be a Super Bowl host. The Stadium is owned by the county, not the team Their fans are very loyal, but in this economy, it just ain't happening.

The Bucs are profitable, but have been mortgaged to save Scum...


Florida Blue - I've been a Bucs fan since 1983, write for an NFL website and have attended over 30 odd games over the years, so I do know how pre-season games work. The stadium isnt too big if the teams doing well btw, or if the team makes a genuine commitment to winning, which at present Tampa Bay isnt hence the fan discontent.

Season ticket packages do indeed include all pre-season games, and its the fact that the "paid" attendance of 41k includes season ticket holders that shows how few have been sold by the Bucs. A lot of other paid attendances dwarfed this across the NFL over the past 2 weeks as an illustration.

A good friend is owed $1000 of his personal seat license back by the Bucs, and has been pursuing it from the team since February; amazingly the Bucs are pulling a deaf ear so hes had to employ a solicitor to chase the money back from an NFL franchise - this alone is quite shocking for a league as cash-rich as the NFL.

In short the Bucs have been cost-cutting for 2 years now, and not making any commitment to winning. They are miles under the salary cap despite being in the top 5 in ticket prices charged to fans. The fans as a result have turned away in droves - not good and all adding up on the Glazer troubles list. My guess would be the Bucs are sold within the next 3 years to alleviate the pressure Steptoe and Sons are under - as a Bucs fan that would also be something I would welcome, to be free of them, though long may they reign at the shitpit that is old trafford.
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Niall Quinns Discopants » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:35 pm

Goaters 103 wrote:
Florida Blue wrote:
Goaters 103 wrote:Season Ticket sales for the Tampa Bay Bucs are also plummeting. The first home pe-season game of the year was held last saturday, and in a 75k stadium the paid attendance was 41k but the actual attendance - ie people who turned up - came to just over 31k. Piss poor and indicative of how the Tampa area public feel about the team, and the way it is being run by Steptoe and Sons.

In short, Bucs fans think the Glazers debt is affecting their team and any money or profit made from the NFL is being used up to finance Man U. Long may the downward spiral continue.



This is a very poor example. When you buy season tickets to an NFL game you must purchase the pre-season games. Most people who were there were there because someone gave them a ticket, the ones that were not, couldn't find someone who wanted him. Pre-season football is pretty much a joke, especially in the first two weeks, since the front line players play for about a quarter and then after that it is guys who will never play a major, or any roll, at all in the NFL. The Miami Dolphins get an even worse pre-season turnout and the sell out every home game.

That said, the stadium is too big for that team to begin with (relative to the size of Tampa/St Pete), but it was built that big to be a Super Bowl host. The Stadium is owned by the county, not the team Their fans are very loyal, but in this economy, it just ain't happening.

The Bucs are profitable, but have been mortgaged to save Scum...


Florida Blue - I've been a Bucs fan since 1983, write for an NFL website and have attended over 30 odd games over the years, so I do know how pre-season games work. The stadium isnt too big if the teams doing well btw, or if the team makes a genuine commitment to winning, which at present Tampa Bay isnt hence the fan discontent.

Season ticket packages do indeed include all pre-season games, and its the fact that the "paid" attendance of 41k includes season ticket holders that shows how few have been sold by the Bucs. A lot of other paid attendances dwarfed this across the NFL over the past 2 weeks as an illustration.

A good friend is owed $1000 of his personal seat license back by the Bucs, and has been pursuing it from the team since February; amazingly the Bucs are pulling a deaf ear so hes had to employ a solicitor to chase the money back from an NFL franchise - this alone is quite shocking for a league as cash-rich as the NFL.

In short the Bucs have been cost-cutting for 2 years now, and not making any commitment to winning. They are miles under the salary cap despite being in the top 5 in ticket prices charged to fans. The fans as a result have turned away in droves - not good and all adding up on the Glazer troubles list. My guess would be the Bucs are sold within the next 3 years to alleviate the pressure Steptoe and Sons are under - as a Bucs fan that would also be something I would welcome, to be free of them, though long may they reign at the shitpit that is old trafford.


There's also the fact that Tampa Bay have absolute horseshit of a roster. They are going into season with Josh Freeman as QB and Donald Penn as left tackle. Two of the key positions in modern pass orientated NFL. They have been left to rot the same way as they will leave rags to rot.
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Goaters 103 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:24 pm

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:
Goaters 103 wrote:
Florida Blue wrote:
Goaters 103 wrote:Season Ticket sales for the Tampa Bay Bucs are also plummeting. The first home pe-season game of the year was held last saturday, and in a 75k stadium the paid attendance was 41k but the actual attendance - ie people who turned up - came to just over 31k. Piss poor and indicative of how the Tampa area public feel about the team, and the way it is being run by Steptoe and Sons.

In short, Bucs fans think the Glazers debt is affecting their team and any money or profit made from the NFL is being used up to finance Man U. Long may the downward spiral continue.



This is a very poor example. When you buy season tickets to an NFL game you must purchase the pre-season games. Most people who were there were there because someone gave them a ticket, the ones that were not, couldn't find someone who wanted him. Pre-season football is pretty much a joke, especially in the first two weeks, since the front line players play for about a quarter and then after that it is guys who will never play a major, or any roll, at all in the NFL. The Miami Dolphins get an even worse pre-season turnout and the sell out every home game.

That said, the stadium is too big for that team to begin with (relative to the size of Tampa/St Pete), but it was built that big to be a Super Bowl host. The Stadium is owned by the county, not the team Their fans are very loyal, but in this economy, it just ain't happening.

The Bucs are profitable, but have been mortgaged to save Scum...


Florida Blue - I've been a Bucs fan since 1983, write for an NFL website and have attended over 30 odd games over the years, so I do know how pre-season games work. The stadium isnt too big if the teams doing well btw, or if the team makes a genuine commitment to winning, which at present Tampa Bay isnt hence the fan discontent.

Season ticket packages do indeed include all pre-season games, and its the fact that the "paid" attendance of 41k includes season ticket holders that shows how few have been sold by the Bucs. A lot of other paid attendances dwarfed this across the NFL over the past 2 weeks as an illustration.

A good friend is owed $1000 of his personal seat license back by the Bucs, and has been pursuing it from the team since February; amazingly the Bucs are pulling a deaf ear so hes had to employ a solicitor to chase the money back from an NFL franchise - this alone is quite shocking for a league as cash-rich as the NFL.

In short the Bucs have been cost-cutting for 2 years now, and not making any commitment to winning. They are miles under the salary cap despite being in the top 5 in ticket prices charged to fans. The fans as a result have turned away in droves - not good and all adding up on the Glazer troubles list. My guess would be the Bucs are sold within the next 3 years to alleviate the pressure Steptoe and Sons are under - as a Bucs fan that would also be something I would welcome, to be free of them, though long may they reign at the shitpit that is old trafford.


There's also the fact that Tampa Bay have absolute horseshit of a roster. They are going into season with Josh Freeman as QB and Donald Penn as left tackle. Two of the key positions in modern pass orientated NFL. They have been left to rot the same way as they will leave rags to rot.


Correct NQDP, and the roster is horseshit as theyve made little or no attempt to improve it over the past 2 years via free agency, despite having dollars to spend as they are miles under the NFLs salary cap.

The Glazer spin is that they are "focusing on rebuilding the roster via the draft" - the truth is they are skint and cutting costs wherever they can.
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Florida Blue » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:30 pm

Goaters 103 wrote:
Florida Blue wrote:
Goaters 103 wrote:Season Ticket sales for the Tampa Bay Bucs are also plummeting. The first home pe-season game of the year was held last saturday, and in a 75k stadium the paid attendance was 41k but the actual attendance - ie people who turned up - came to just over 31k. Piss poor and indicative of how the Tampa area public feel about the team, and the way it is being run by Steptoe and Sons.

In short, Bucs fans think the Glazers debt is affecting their team and any money or profit made from the NFL is being used up to finance Man U. Long may the downward spiral continue.



This is a very poor example. When you buy season tickets to an NFL game you must purchase the pre-season games. Most people who were there were there because someone gave them a ticket, the ones that were not, couldn't find someone who wanted him. Pre-season football is pretty much a joke, especially in the first two weeks, since the front line players play for about a quarter and then after that it is guys who will never play a major, or any roll, at all in the NFL. The Miami Dolphins get an even worse pre-season turnout and the sell out every home game.

That said, the stadium is too big for that team to begin with (relative to the size of Tampa/St Pete), but it was built that big to be a Super Bowl host. The Stadium is owned by the county, not the team Their fans are very loyal, but in this economy, it just ain't happening.

The Bucs are profitable, but have been mortgaged to save Scum...


Florida Blue - I've been a Bucs fan since 1983, write for an NFL website and have attended over 30 odd games over the years, so I do know how pre-season games work. The stadium isnt too big if the teams doing well btw, or if the team makes a genuine commitment to winning, which at present Tampa Bay isnt hence the fan discontent.

Season ticket packages do indeed include all pre-season games, and its the fact that the "paid" attendance of 41k includes season ticket holders that shows how few have been sold by the Bucs. A lot of other paid attendances dwarfed this across the NFL over the past 2 weeks as an illustration.

A good friend is owed $1000 of his personal seat license back by the Bucs, and has been pursuing it from the team since February; amazingly the Bucs are pulling a deaf ear so hes had to employ a solicitor to chase the money back from an NFL franchise - this alone is quite shocking for a league as cash-rich as the NFL.

In short the Bucs have been cost-cutting for 2 years now, and not making any commitment to winning. They are miles under the salary cap despite being in the top 5 in ticket prices charged to fans. The fans as a result have turned away in droves - not good and all adding up on the Glazer troubles list. My guess would be the Bucs are sold within the next 3 years to alleviate the pressure Steptoe and Sons are under - as a Bucs fan that would also be something I would welcome, to be free of them, though long may they reign at the shitpit that is old trafford.


Fair enough, I get a different story from my friends who have tickets, but like Dolphins fans, they can be very blinded by their love of team.
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Beefymcfc » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:36 pm

Tick, Tock, - Tick, Tock!
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Re: Tick Tock Tick Tock

Postby Manx Blue » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:57 am

He Waits; That's what he does....And I tell you what:

TICK followed TOCK followed TICK followed TOCK followed TICK...

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