The mancityfans.net football forum

Don't usually like The Guardian but this is thoughtful stuff:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... ootballers

Sheffield Wednesday's captain talking about the topic that few in football want to mention. It's no good living a lie (only this past week someone I've worked with for four years "came out" and no one had suspected, that's how secret he'd kept it) but for football players who are gay and fear a reaction from the fans, it must be a tough choice. Anyway, folk might try reading the article before saying owt.

I feel there is no need for them to "come out". I have never felt the need to come out as straight and make any sort of declaration on the subject and I feel I am in no way defined by my sexuality. Just because they have a different orientation they shouldn't feel the need to hide or show it or make any sort of grandiose statement on the subject.

I have less respect for people who "come out" as being gay as I feel they are making an issue and defining themselves on something that shouldn't matter and when they do, that is all they become.

Slim wrote:I feel there is no need for them to "come out". I have never felt the need to come out as straight and make any sort of declaration on the subject and I feel I am in no way defined by my sexuality. Just because they have a different orientation they shouldn't feel the need to hide or show it or make any sort of grandiose statement on the subject.

I have less respect for people who "come out" as being gay as I feel they are making an issue and defining themselves on something that shouldn't matter and when they do, that is all they become.

I concur with above wisdom and would also add that a player's sexuality has fuck all to do with me. I only buy into him as a player who does a job entertaining me. It is his/her personal/private choice.

Slim wrote:I feel there is no need for them to "come out". I have never felt the need to come out as straight and make any sort of declaration on the subject and I feel I am in no way defined by my sexuality. Just because they have a different orientation they shouldn't feel the need to hide or show it or make any sort of grandiose statement on the subject.

I have less respect for people who "come out" as being gay as I feel they are making an issue and defining themselves on something that shouldn't matter and when they do, that is all they become.

I don't get why would you have less respect for people who come out and let the world know they are gay. People define themselves, their families and their lives in a lot of ways i might not find appealing, but it doesn't really impact me.

Living in San Francisco for a lot of years made me realize that, although i might have agreed with your perspective 100% at one point in my life, being gay for a lot of people is a secret or an issue that they have trouble coming to grips with, and their ability to feel safe, open and secure in their community is something i have no right to judge or take away from them. So many came from areas of the country or world where being gay felt nearly criminal or just so out of step, that they struggled. A lot. And a lot of people achieve that aspect of reclaiming who they are by being openly gay and out of the closet, etc....whatever you want to call it.

anyway, i got on a soapbox for a minute, but i think you get my point. I understand your point about how being so outwardly focused on being gay can define you in really narrow terms. That's true for a lot of things outside of just sexuality, but it's a great example. And really, i don't care if that's how someone identifies themself. it's a genetic predisposition.

also, you can't come out as 'straight'...no one would believe it after the latent post above tbh. sorry.

cheers

Interesting topic this

Whilst I agree a footballers sexuality is of no concern to me or anyone, it's not a case of declaring ones sexuality or not, it's being allowed to do what us "normal" people take for granted

Imagine if you, during your acne and sprouting years could not go to the bars and clubs you liked, not be seen out with your partner, not to go to places that may be considered gay and never to be allowed to express a moment of tenderness in public - it would have a huge impact on your life

Now Before I sound too altruistic here, I still find it odd to see two guys snogging or holding hands though I don't feel any need to beat them up or shout abuse.

But in male dominated environments, football, the armed forces etc the press have field days when they catch a sniff of homoxualness. And unfortunately, the press really is just a reflection of the public tastes.

So you have a choice " come out" or get "outed". It's a decision I would hate to face, especially if i was 20

In a football world which is still dominated by dinosaurs, it must be very difficult, especially for a young bloke. The temptation must be to just keep it quiet & try to get through your career.

Slim wrote:I feel there is no need for them to "come out". I have never felt the need to come out as straight and make any sort of declaration on the subject and I feel I am in no way defined by my sexuality. Just because they have a different orientation they shouldn't feel the need to hide or show it or make any sort of grandiose statement on the subject.

I have less respect for people who "come out" as being gay as I feel they are making an issue and defining themselves on something that shouldn't matter and when they do, that is all they become.

I can't agree with this. Living a lie is a horrible way to exist and I would know because iv done it. I didn't come out to define myself I came out because I just couldn't live like that anymore. I mean how would you feel if you couldn't introduce your patner to your family and friends for a period of 5 years because everyone thinks your straight. How would you feel if people kept setting you up, in my case with men, how you would feel about having bullshit relationship again in my case a man just to look normal and not to upset your folks?

Sorry slim but that's not how I wanted to live my life, I wanted to be me and I'm lucky that I can be. I just don't think a straight person can say stuff on what they would and wouldn't do as a gay person because your not. That would be like me saying I know how it felt to be black, which I don't.

Sister of fu wrote:

Slim wrote:I feel there is no need for them to "come out". I have never felt the need to come out as straight and make any sort of declaration on the subject and I feel I am in no way defined by my sexuality. Just because they have a different orientation they shouldn't feel the need to hide or show it or make any sort of grandiose statement on the subject.

I have less respect for people who "come out" as being gay as I feel they are making an issue and defining themselves on something that shouldn't matter and when they do, that is all they become.

I can't agree with this. Living a lie is a horrible way to exist and I would know because iv done it. I didn't come out to define myself I came out because I just couldn't live like that anymore. I mean how would you feel if you couldn't introduce your patner to your family and friends for a period of 5 years because everyone thinks your straight. How would you feel if people kept setting you up, in my case with men, how you would feel about having bullshit relationship again in my case a man just to look normal and not to upset your folks?

Sorry slim but that's not how I wanted to live my life, I wanted to be me and I'm lucky that I can be. I just don't think a straight person can say stuff on what they would and wouldn't do as a gay person because your not. That would be like me saying I know how it felt to be black, which I don't.

Maybe you see coming out different to me and I am sure being you are gay have insight into the subject that I don't. In simple terms, I don't care if you're gay, it's none of my business and however you want to live your life is up to you. I see "coming out" and some sort of huge defining statement and I think you personally are much more than that, why would you want the first thought in peoples' heads when they think of you to be "lesbian"? You are a City fan first and foremost in my book, and a keeper for the women's team which means you must be a pretty damn good footballer. In the same way I think of myself as an artist, a city fan and somewhat of a comedian, I certainly don't think of my defining characteristic to be being straight.

I guess I think people consider it to be 'clearing the air' and I debate there is any air to be cleared at all and if anyone has to come to terms with being gay it should be the only person it affects(and the wife or husband if the person is married obv) and fuck the rest of them who feel this has any impact on their lives whatsoever.

Ted Hughes wrote:In a football world which is still dominated by dinosaurs, it must be very difficult, especially for a young bloke. The temptation must be to just keep it quiet & try to get through your career.

That makes me think of Justin Fashanu. Not only was he a homosexual footballer, he was homosexual Black footballer of African descent. Ouch.

All we need is a City player to come out. Another stick to beat us with.

Slim wrote:
...I think of myself as ...somewhat of a comedian

That did make me laugh, funny man. Nicely done.

Cheers

i'm contemplating coming out as fat.
i guess i just did.

Andie,
Maybe diving around Manchester for 30 odd years and seeing the gay village and community evolve on a daily (nightly) basis, has made me immune to this issue. I learnt long ago that that a persons' sexual preference had no relevence to defining who and what those people were.
I have several close friends of both sexes who are gay, who I accept as friends because they are lovely people who I care about. Their sexual preference played no part whatsoever in any of that acceptance.
You are a lovely young lady who falls into that category. Would you being of a different preference really change who and what you are? I doubt it Andie. You would be that same lovely person because it is in your nature to be that.

john68 wrote:Andie,
Maybe diving around Manchester for 30 odd years and seeing the gay village and community evolve on a daily (nightly) basis, has made me immune to this issue. I learnt long ago that that a persons' sexual preference had no relevence to defining who and what those people were.
I have several close friends of both sexes who are gay, who I accept as friends because they are lovely people who I care about. Their sexual preference played no part whatsoever in any of that acceptance.
You are a lovely young lady who falls into that category. Would you being of a different preference really change who and what you are? I doubt it Andie. You would be that same lovely person because it is in your nature to be that.

Aye aye

As far as I know, Gareth Thomas, the Welsh rugby player is the only openly gay
athlete in the world. That is truly pathetic and says a lot about our society. I used
to be pretty neutral about politics in sports, esp. concerning race and sex. In the US,
where everything is so fast paced and don't ask/don't tell, it was so easy to turn
the cheek.....

but then it occurred to me, why is homophobia so accepted in locker rooms?? UEFA
and FIFA truly like to pat themselves for the progress made when at continental friendlies our
'role models,' the World Cup banners which say "End Racism," while the same straight players are
cracking jokes about 'Maricons,' or "Poofs,' or 'Faggots." Nice Choice!!

For me, anyone, not just a gay footballer, coming out is a sign of great courage and character.
I could never step into a wall of alienation, like that, and send a clear signal to the status quo.
Every single footballer who comes out has my full and undivided respect and support!!

Being openly gay should not be a stigma, whether your a fucking gas fitter or a goalie for Milwall.

CitizenYank wrote:As far as I know, Gareth Thomas, the Welsh rugby player is the only openly gay
athlete in the world. That is truly pathetic and says a lot about our society.

Not true. He's the only open sportsman in Britain. I guess a lot of female professionals are openly lesbian in a variety of sports. Someone came out in Aussie Rules recently, I think, and Donal Cusack, a top-notch hurling player came out last year.

Whilst I agree with slim that i couldn't care less what a footballer does off the pitch, providing it doesn't affect his performance or bring the club into disrepute, I can see the need to 'come out' as there is an assumption that they're all straight.

To come out would be a brave move, as it could cause issues with some team mates, but can you imagine the grief from opposition fans? Despite all the, suprisingly, enlightened points on here, how many of us have used Tranaldo as a derogatory term? We'd never call a black player for being black, but it's still acceptable to call a player pulling out of a tackle a puff. Saying that, I've seen plenty of terms on here like kraut and eyetie that everyone accepts. Somehow, only a few derogatory terms are socially unacceptable and potentially illegal.

Like some others on here I can't watch two blokes kissing in the street (and in parts of New York it happens a lot) without feeling a gut reaction against it, and I also agree with those who say people shouldn't be defined only by their sexuality. But I've known enough gay people to understand now that they shouldn't have to deny that part of who they are either. I'm not defined by being a Manchester City supporter (well, not completely) and I don't suppose many of us are. But imagine living in a world where being "normal" was being a Man U*****d fan and people who loved City had to hide it? Could being gay be like going into the Stretford End at the derby with your sky blue scarf hidden under your coat and having to keep quiet when Tevez scores a hat-trick?

Could being gay be like going into the Stretford End at the derby with your sky blue scarf hidden under your coat and having to keep quiet when Tevez scores a hat-trick?

I would be outed right there ^^