Villa fans on Dunne and Ireland

[ScapeGoat]

Found these funny:

A thread titled "Dunne, one season wonder?"
http://www.villatalk.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=64646

Here are some quotes:

Or is it just a temporary blip? its been a long time since i've seen a villa centre half make so many mistakes tbh and its being punished with conceding so many goals

I think he's a real disaster

...he has no pace, no sense of position, and absolutely no distrbution. In one word: crap.

Man Shit knew what they were doing when they sold Dunne to us. Dunne is an accident waiting to happen in every game

And a 34 page discussion of Ireland's best position
http://www.villatalk.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=2342369#2342369

And here are some quotes on Ireland :

I think he's a good player but don't deserve to be in the team

It seems like we've been really conned by Mercenary City.

Well he has yet to be deployed properly

...he is still trying too hard

[Mase]

I've heard Ireland is struggling to get a game for Villa?

EDIT: Just checked and he's not started the last two game for them, coming off the bench for the last 9 minutes yesterday.

[blootoof]

Don't forget the 80+page post discussing us

http://www.villatalk.com/index.php?name ... ic&t=53417

[Moonchesteri]

Can't say I'm surprised.

[john@staustell]

No surprises at all here. Just surprised it took them so long!

Wonder how the 'bring back Dunnie and Ireland' society is getting along on here?

[dazby]

I'd swap Ireland for Superjaw anytime.

[Goaters 103]

As Ireland's arse is already planted on Villa's bench I am pesuming then, that he wont give a shit whether they win or lose any of these games.

As for Dunney, a great player and servant to City but his time had passed and it was right for him and us to part ways. I wish him well.

[marvin]

I thought dunne had a poor game at Spurs, but I think that was a come back game. Not sure why he has been out. Could be injury

[CitizenYank]

Dunne has more than his injury to worry about with those new players on defense. Ireland is a middling player at best, with a few good tricks (if he uses them.)

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

They've been obsessed with us eversince we bought Barry. To be fair, the way things are going they might soon get him back. I think Barry, while a good player, is the weakest link in our best XI and I think Bobby will look for improvement in central midfield in future.

[kinkylola]

can't say I agree with you about barry NDQP ... he is a big part of how we play our passing game, and in my opinion he performs his role very very well. passing stats so far in the prem: ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create ... great resource by the way)

vs. tottenham - 94%
vs. liverpool - data missing
vs. Sunderland- 98%
vs. Blackburn - 95%
vs. Wigan - 85%
vs. Chelsea - 100%
vs. Newcastle - 83%

he has been great a finding good passes and setting up/continuing moves from deep, and I think when our attackers start to gel with one another, his passes from deep will be even more important. I would definitely not swap milner into that position based on milners passing so far this season. No knock on milner, I think he is a good player, and he will be an important part of the team for a while, but he does not have the natural passing ability that barry displays on a consistent basis ... yet. He may well develop that, but it isn't there yet.

Anyway ... to remain on topic here Dunnie had a good season last year, but he did trail off towards the end. The problem I always thought we had with dunne was not whether or not he could turn in powerhouse displays, but how consistently he could turn them in and how many shockers did he have in between. I like Dunne a lot and he always gave 100%, but I dont think he fits the bill of a "top class" CB. Ireland, as I have been saying to friends recently ... just is not right in the head right now. And I think it's a case of only him knowing what the actual problem is. I have no doubt that he trains hard and puts in the work off the field, but a huge part of being a top class professional athlete is melding physical preparation with mental preparation, and I think mentally, ireland is not ready to be the star of a team, which is unfortunate, because for him to truly reach his potential, I think a team would have to be built around him, suited to his needs/strengths as a player.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

And that's why stats can be so misleading. His passing lacks any ambition whatsoever and in kind of midfield formation we are playing, you need those midfielders step up in turns to make those opening passes. The way Yaya does every now and then. If anything, Barry has regressed in his passing this seasons.

Besides, passing rates of defensive midfielders tend to be around or above 95%. If you are mainly making two yard passes sideways you can't really miss many.

Barry's movement has been really really poor this season. Apart from his goal against Liverpool, I can barely remember him being on the box in the right time. The whole three central midfielder formation is based on that at least, preferably two of them arrive late in the box when the ball is delivered from the wing. Right now Tevez is there all on his own most of the time. Soemtimes Yaya can get there but Barry hardly ever.

In future, if we are looking to go where I think we are looking to go, we will need much more dynamic player there than Barry. Someone like Yaya or even better, more positive player.

Barry is solid but unspectacular player. We need player there who is solid but can do spectacular every once in a while.

I agree about Milner by the way. I didn't think he would suit our formation and felt that we needed better ball player. Milner is good workhorse and it's good to have him around because he can fill so many roles when needed. But he doesn't really suit as winger in our formation nor as central midfielder.

[ant london]

I'm unsure of Milner's best use in the team. I think it's clear that it is not full-time on the wing. I would like to see him play that central role properly. I certainly think he would have been more effective than Yaya was yesterday.

Both Yaya and Paddy looked like they were wading through treacle yesterday.....even though I do see where NQDP is coming from to a degree, I think that Gareth was positively dynamic compared to these two yesterday.

You can criticise GB's use of the ball in terms of inventiveness if you want to be picky but he pretty much always uses it intelligently and we are much more capable (especially when several of the team are off colour) of keeping hold of the ball for prolonged spells when Barry is involved.

Yesterday we had Milner going down dead end streets, Lescott looking clumsy, Boateng giving it away cheaply and Yaya equally just looking off the pace and losing possession needlessly.

Nigel and Gareth were two of the people yesterday who got us the ball back and didn't give it straight back to the barcodes

[kinkylola]

You can complain about 5 yard passes and sideways balls, but if gb plays a sideways ball to silva or yaya and they then make a defense splitting pass, how is that a bad move?

I agree with ant, I think barry uses the ball very intelligently and I think a simple fact is that passing the ball forward, while it may make you happier or be more exciting, is not always the best use of the ball.

Barry has to stay for me. We have 1 player in mid who sits behind him, we have one dynamic player who goes box to box, and we have barry sitting in the middle, always an outlet for people and always using the ball intelligently and I think it's not a glamorous position but it keep the offence ticking and allows moves to develop. We do not need to play at break neck, full throttle speed with only forward movement.

I would also like to see milner in midfield ... but I don't think he would fit in with the role barry is playing now. we would have to change the system a bit, which might work in the end ... but for the system we are using now, it doesn't fit.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

You can complain about 5 yard passes and sideways balls, but if gb plays a sideways ball to silva or yaya and they then make a defense splitting pass, how is that a bad move?
I agree with ant, I think barry uses the ball very intelligently and I think a simple fact is that passing the ball forward, while it may make you happier or be more exciting, is not always the best use of the ball.

Barry has to stay for me. We have 1 player in mid who sits behind him, we have one dynamic player who goes box to box, and we have barry sitting in the middle, always an outlet for people and always using the ball intelligently and I think it's not a glamorous position but it keep the offence ticking and allows moves to develop. We do not need to play at break neck, full throttle speed with only forward movement.

I would also like to see milner in midfield ... but I don't think he would fit in with the role barry is playing now. we would have to change the system a bit, which might work in the end ... but for the system we are using now, it doesn't fit.

A) Because passing the ball around pointlesly slows us down.
B) Because they rarely do

[Ted Hughes]

I think we need to remember that Milner is a new signing. To his credit, he gives the impression on the pitch that he's been around for years but he's still finding his feet & it may be next season before we see him 100% settled, as there are several other players in the team doing the same & more to come.

As for Barry, it would be great to have a better, faster, more gifted player who can do his job, but what shouldn't be underestimated is the number of crucial positions he takes up & his reading of the game. He stopped what would have been a certain goal yesterday for instance. Any true replacement would have to be very intelligent & willing to do a lot of covering for other people.

[patrickblue]

Don't forget the 80+page post discussing us

http://www.villatalk.com/index.php?name ... ic&t=53417

What on earth have they found to talk about through 83 pages. We havn't managed a quarter of that in threads about the scum. And we're very bitterly obsessed with them (allegedly)

[Alioune DVToure]

Not to open up a whole different debate, but Barry is one of those players who really does look the business in the flesh rather than on TV. The positions he takes up both when we do and don't have the ball are more intelligent than any other midfielder at the club besides Vieira. And he's pricelessly strong on the ball. I'm really pleased with his performances this season.

[Blue2]

Barry has been one of our best players this season, one of those players who doesn't really get the praise they deserve.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Not to open up a whole different debate, but Barry is one of those players who really does look the business in the flesh rather than on TV. The positions he takes up both when we do and don't have the ball are more intelligent than any other midfielder at the club besides Vieira. And he's pricelessly strong on the ball. I'm really pleased with his performances this season.

I've seen Barry very much in flesh about five or six times for us, Villa and England and he hasn't looked any different to player I see on telly.