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I thought it be a nice change to not talk about if Mancini is god or the devil, if Balotelli is Messi or Heskey or if those 2 straight defeats will make us stronger and win the league or implode and fail to qualify for the europa league.

When the change was made from "The Reserves" to "The Elite Development Squad" there was alot of cringe going on from City fans and mickey taking from opposition fans but i said at the time it was more than a fancy name change. IMO the EDS was set up as 50% income stream and 50% producing players for the first team in mind. At the moment there are 24 players in the EDS or out on loan at other clubs and in the Academy there are around 18 players so between the ages of 16 and 21 there are 42 young players trying to get through the bottleneck that is progression to the first team, that is a hell of alot and that is what it is like every year. Now 90%-95% of them will not make a good career here, they will make it elsewhere and this is where the name change comes in. IMO the club wants to produce or bring in young players who have potential but might not fulfil that potential with us in later years, so instead of releasing them to the wilderness we will do what the rags have done for years, sell them for good money (£1m for Shawcross as an example who never made an appearance for them)

For me this is what it should go like
16-18 should be academy,
18-19 should be EDS and first team recognition of some sort (an unused sub appearance for example)
19-20 Loan to lower league club or feeder club if not involved fully with the first team (like Royal Antwerp with the rags)
20-21 should no longer be here if not a first team squad member.

I was then having a look at the excellent mcfcreservesandacademy.co.uk and i got to the EDS profiles and i couldn't beleive who was still here. I've only seen the EDS play once this season against Arsenal and i should get to more but surely there is going to be a huge clearout of players in the summer which would leave a huge gap as there are not alot of U18 graduates coming through from this years Academy side to supplement it.

I was having a look at the ages of the players by the time the 2011/2012 season starts and alot of them should not be here at their age when they are so far away from the first team especially when you consider they are the same age or older than Adam Johnson, Mario Balotelli, Jerome Boateng ect, they need to find careers elsewhere and work their way back up if they think they are good enough for the Premier League.

23 - Shaleum Logan (3 apps), Kelvin Etuhu (15 apps)
22 - Scott Kay (0 apps), Javan Vidal (1 app), Donal McDermott (0 apps)
21 - Ben Mee (1 app), David Ball (0 apps), James Poole (0 apps), Ryan McGivern (0 apps), Kieran Trippier (0 apps), Andrew Tutte (0 apps)

Take away Etuhu and his 15 apperances for us and between the rest of the 10 players they have a measley 5 first team appearances between them, at 21-23 they are never going to make it with us so i hope we say goodbye to them for their sake in the summer, it is no good for their development or career for them to be living of being a Manchester City player and they are also denying the oppourtunity for the clubs younger players to test themselves against older, stronger players in the reserve set up thus denying their development.

The next lot of players starting with three of them who i think are decent players and are well known to City fans, again with their ages at the start of next season
20 - Abdi Ibrahim, Alex Nimley
19 - John Guidetti

I think if we beat Poznan on Thursday and qualify for the next stage i think these three will play some part in the final two games, especially the Juventus one which will basically be a dead rubber match where i hope we rest ALL of our best 12-14 players with the busy xmas period coming up. Once that is over with they all really need to go out on 5 month loans as soon as the January transfer window opens as (barring a monumental injury crisis) they will not get even near the first team bench for the remainder of the season. I've seen reports of Guidetti linking him to Blackburn on loan, that would be shite, they all need to go to clubs in the championship who will play them every game (obviously if they do well) then they can come back and join the squad in pre-season and get games on the tours and try and push for a first team squad place. The best example here is Danny Wellbeck, had abit of first team action but is now a regular starter for Sunderland on loan where he will get a better education there at a club like that than in their reserve side.

The rest of them;-
19 - Chris Chantler, Tom Smith, Sean Tse, Reece Wabara, Ahmed Benali, Omar Elabdellaoui, Mohammed Abu, Jeremy Helan
18 - Frédéric Veseli, Harry Bunn, Joan Roman Angel

I imagine will form the basis of the EDS games, only Benali has impressed me when i have seen them so i imagine it would be a big year for him next season where he'd need to be pushing for first team recognition of some sort as applies to the others if they are really going to make it here. Out of the others i know Veseli was on the bench for the WBA league cup game and captained the Swiss U17 to the FIFA U17 World Cup last year so he sounds like he has got some ability even though i haven't really seen him much, same with Helan, he came to us amid the stories of tapping up but whenever i've seen him i've not been too impressed but he has trained with the first team so maybe he has got better potential than the others.

But again with the bunch of lads who will be 19 next season, if they aren't making first team appearances or getting anywhere near the squad then in reality there isn't any real future for them here and IMO if they should be spending next year half in the EDS and half out on loan clearing the way for the next batch of 17-18 year olds to test themsleves against better, stronger opposition.

I mentioned a feeder club and some have been mooted in the past and i wonder if we will hear about one in the summer?

Thought it would be an interesting topic anyway even if it is a bit long winded.

Close but not good enough GG...Scott Kay has just turned 21 not 22 and has time popularity and abilty and Chris Chantler is 20 and the same could be said.You make fair and interesting points and your vision shows you care and have knowledge but please please for those of us not in the know come on here with correct info on our players and in doing so give the lads a fair crack.

jelly&icecreamblue wrote:Close but not good enough GG...Scott Kay has just turned 21 not 22 and has time popularity and abilty and Chris Chantler is 20 and the same could be said.You make fair and interesting points and your vision shows you care and have knowledge but please please for those of us not in the know come on here with correct info on our players and in doing so give the lads a fair crack.

His birthday is 18th September 1989 right? So at the start of next season that will make him 22 and Chris Chantler's birthday is 16th December 1990? so that makes him 20 at the start of next season and 21 half way through it so i was good enough really.

I still stand by what i said, Scott Kay at 22 without a single football league apperance on his CV will not make it at Manchester City, he may well have decent abilty but he doesn't have time and i don't see what popularity has anything to do with making it as a footballer.

I recon that most of the players of 20 & over in that list are nowhere near good enough to get in the 1st team but one or two could have been if they'd been better educated as footballers earlier. Imo we bring through too many players who are footballing thickheads & it's because of that lack of football intelligence rather than a lack of ability that some of these lads have missed the boat.

It seems to me that our 21 year olds have footballing brains on the level of of the rags' 16- 17 year olds. Sometimes ours have more skill & physique but they play football like children & when they reach the reserve team they lack the footballing brains to become 1st team material & can't then learn it fast enough. it's mostly just the big/fast/hard ones who end up getting in the 1st team because they're big & or fast or hard. Ireland & Johnno are the only two footballers to come out of our academy into the 1st team regularly who had any brains as footballers. The rest have just been athletes, cloggers or full scale donkeys. It's not good enough & I'm glad it's being overhauled.

What's going on? Two in three days i agree with you Ted. Johnson came to us at 16, Ireland 15. So we can hardly say we taught them everything.

Well that's another point, Micha & SWP, two of our biggest successes from the academy also came to the club later so we've produced very few genuine Premier League quality 1st team players from the start.

The academy has been one of the best at finding & producing players to have decent careers but has been piss poor at producing top quality. The current EDS should, imo, only contain players who have a genuine chance of playing for the current 1st team. If we can't feild 11 such players then get out there & sign some more.

We could start up another team in the lower reserve league to put Etuhu & Co in, so clubs can look at them.

Well said ted.
Some years ago (for a short whle), I stopped watching the 1st team and followed city at reserve and youth teams. I came to the conclusion that we were producing some excellent players of international standard at their yopung age but we failed dismally to convert that talent into top class footballing material.

The academy history is full of young players who at 17 were amongst the best in the country, yet so few failed to mature.

I also think that the current pholosophy determining which kids are scouted is very much dependant on size and athleticism. "We can tach a big lad to play football but we can't make a good footballer into a big lad"...a bit sad really.

If anyone's interested, they've just beat West Ham Reserves 2-1. Ibrahim and Helan on the score sheet.

[urlnp=http://www.whufc.com/articles/20101102/reserves-1-2-manchester-city-ft_2236884_2205063]LINK[/urlnp]

ibrahim and own goal not helan

jelly&icecreamblue wrote:ibrahim and own goal not helan

Beefy's Dodgy Goals Panel: Decison in favour of anything Blue - Goal to Helan ;-)

Here's a rarity (re the EDS) for you.....this is what seems to be an actual "article" on tribal football

(and for what it's worth I would be more than happy to see Sven take him for the rest of the season to give him some proper decent experience)

Man City youngster agreeable to Leicester move

Manchester City teenager John Guidetti would be interested in a move to Leicester City.

The Swedish striker has impressed playing for City’s reserves and Sweden’s underage teams and did well on loan at Brommapojkarna, the club who developed him as a schoolboy.

This led to comparisons with Manchester United forward Wayne Rooney, but the 18 year old is more concerned about getting first-team football.

"I’ll be grateful and take that comparison, but maybe it’s a bit exaggerated," he told Eurosport. "I don’t want to be the Swedish Rooney, and anyway I would rather be compared to (Sweden striker Zlatan) Ibrahimovic.

"I’m John Guidetti, I don’t want to be anyone else. I just want to be myself."

Fellow Swede Sven-Goran Eriksson signed Guidetti for Manchester City in 2008 and the new Leicester boss has been linked with a swoop for him.

"I can imagine that (Eriksson) is interested, after all he was the one who got me to City in 2008," he added.

"But everything is up to City, and if they want to let me go or not.

"It would be a damned good loan for me, they’re a good team with great players. It would be awesome."

Guidetti has scored 14 goals in 14 matches for City’s youth team and hit a hat-trick on his reserve-team debut against Burnley last season.

He feels he can succeed in any division - but asked to be handed a chance to impress.

"It doesn't matter if it's the Premier League, Serie A, the Championship or La Liga, I'm waiting for my chance, I feel that I'm ready to take the next step now," he added. "If somebody gives me the chance I will succeed.

"I carry on scoring goals and then we will see if I will go to Italy, get a chance at City or join Eriksson at Leicester. If I play well clubs will be interested.

"I haven’t spoken to Eriksson as such - he is a manager and he has a lot to do all the time.

"You do your talking on the pitch by scoring goals and giving assists, you don’t have to talk on the phone. So I guess we have talked a fair amount!"

That's been covered in the Swedish press the last few days as well. A loan to Leicester would be a good experience for the lad. He needs to play competitive football to develop. His short stint in Sweden last year seems to have done him a lot of good confidence wise, but a loan spell in England would be of more value for him.

This was on the Evg News website: 'The City youth team will play Ajax next week in a pilot fixture for a planned new European youth tournament modelled on the Champions League.

The young Blues will play in Amsterdam on November 12, and the tournament proper is due to start next season'.

Brilliant brilliant idea. I can see that really helping young players to learn & improve their football intelligence by seeing different methods in action. It also gives us an opportunity to have a look at other youth set ups & see who's worth stealing! Happy days.