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After deJong and Tevez returned we see a different performance. As a lot of speculation went on as to tactics.. players motivation.. not good enough etc etc.. what is the feeling now.. what are our main problems?

Im still thinking that it is a mix of individuals getting used to the prem and the team getting used to each other on the whole.

The only other thing is that deJong makes such a difference to the way we can play.. he is just almost 100% reliable at protecting the defence and patrolling the loose players hanging around at the edge of the area when teams are attacking us. He is truly something and the only concern is that without him we have no-one else who can do his job or even anything close to it.

Other problems are seasoned Prem players not getting a level of performance out. SWP recently to name one, Bridge.. are just not reliable enough.

The new players i can excuse so far as they have to learn.

Terry Venables said our biggest problem was our money... yeah cos being 3rd in the league is far worse than fighting relegation every year.

A challenge for us is to develop one of the other midfielders into decent cover for de jong, unfortunately the best may be Kompany but he is busy elsewhere, Barry and Vieira haven't got the speed for 90 mins so that leaves.....................
Is it a waste of Milner but who else?

Problem No 1 is that all the stuff Tevez does like dropping deep & twisting, turning (that some people were moaning about last season because that moron Ireland can't play with him) is sorely missed as none of the other forwards can do it properly. So when we lose Tevez, we're not as effective & Silva has to do it on his own.

Problem 2 is that nobody can do DeJong's job except DeJong.

Problem 3 imo is that the defence & defensive part of the team still isn't a unit. We bossed the game v WBA but as soon as we came under any kind of pressure, only luck kept them from scoring yet they didn't do anything special to create those chances, just obvious, run of the mill football.

Problem 4 is still that most of the players don't cross a ball properly & when they do, nobody gets on the end of it. If anyone but Balotelli had been playing, the 1st goal wouldn't have been scored as nobody would have been in that position. Add to that the fact that we were the only team in the country without a headed goal until Ade the other day.

aristation wrote:A challenge for us is to develop one of the other midfielders into decent cover for de jong, unfortunately the best may be Kompany but he is busy elsewhere, Barry and Vieira haven't got the speed for 90 mins so that leaves.....................
Is it a waste of Milner but who else?

Milner and Komps would be the obvious ones. If Lescott could cover Koms he could probably do a decent job of it. As we are talking pretty much emrgencies when Nige isnt available, then Milner has the energy levels and has played like Barry in defence from time to time so should again do a half decent job.

Expecting the three mids to share the role just doesn't seem to work at all and just confuses the lot of them, so imo someone needs to step into it when needed. (NOT PV)

brite blu sky wrote:

aristation wrote:A challenge for us is to develop one of the other midfielders into decent cover for de jong, unfortunately the best may be Kompany but he is busy elsewhere, Barry and Vieira haven't got the speed for 90 mins so that leaves.....................
Is it a waste of Milner but who else?

Milner and Komps would be the obvious ones. If Lescott could cover Koms he could probably do a decent job of it. As we are talking pretty much emrgencies when Nige isnt available, then Milner has the energy levels and has played like Barry in defence from time to time so should again do a half decent job.

Expecting the three mids to share the role just doesn't seem to work at all and just confuses the lot of them, so imo someone needs to step into it when needed. (NOT PV)

Milner has the ability to improve a great deal but doesn't yet have the defensive nous that Barry & DeJong have.

Ted Hughes wrote:Problem No 1 is that all the stuff Tevez does like dropping deep & twisting, turning (that some people were moaning about last season because that moron Ireland can't play with him) is sorely missed as none of the other forwards can do it properly. So when we lose Tevez, we're not as effective & Silva has to do it on his own.

Problem 2 is that nobody can do DeJong's job except DeJong.

Problem 3 imo is that the defence & defensive part of the team still isn't a unit. We bossed the game v WBA but as soon as we came under any kind of pressure, only luck kept them from scoring yet they didn't do anything special to create those chances, just obvious, run of the mill football.

Problem 4 is still that most of the players don't cross a ball properly & when they do, nobody gets on the end of it. If anyone but Balotelli had been playing, the 1st goal wouldn't have been scored as nobody would have been in that position. Add to that the fact that we were the only team in the country without a headed goal until Ade the other day.

Problem 1 play Milner in Tevez role. Not as good but at least a battler.
Problem 2. see above post.. Komps or Milner again.
Problem 3 only time together can sort that.
Problem 4 Slightly disagree. Ade might have been there. Tevez crosses, Silva does, Ade has, AJ sometimes gets a delivery right.. thats not too bad, but you do have a point.

brite blu sky wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Problem No 1 is that all the stuff Tevez does like dropping deep & twisting, turning (that some people were moaning about last season because that moron Ireland can't play with him) is sorely missed as none of the other forwards can do it properly. So when we lose Tevez, we're not as effective & Silva has to do it on his own.

Problem 2 is that nobody can do DeJong's job except DeJong.

Problem 3 imo is that the defence & defensive part of the team still isn't a unit. We bossed the game v WBA but as soon as we came under any kind of pressure, only luck kept them from scoring yet they didn't do anything special to create those chances, just obvious, run of the mill football.

Problem 4 is still that most of the players don't cross a ball properly & when they do, nobody gets on the end of it. If anyone but Balotelli had been playing, the 1st goal wouldn't have been scored as nobody would have been in that position. Add to that the fact that we were the only team in the country without a headed goal until Ade the other day.

Problem 1 play Milner in Tevez role. Not as good but at least a battler.
Problem 2. see above post.. Komps or Milner again.
Problem 3 only time together can sort that.
Problem 4 Slightly disagree. Ade might have been there. Tevez crosses, Silva does, Ade has, AJ sometimes gets a delivery right.. thats not too bad, but you do have a point.

Ade would be stood 8 yards deeper waiting for the ball to be pulled back. Ideally imo when a player gets the ball in a wide or wideish position, we should have a player attacking the near post, far post where Balo was, stood back wher Ade would be, & arriving at the edge of the box wher Scholes/Lampard would be. If that happened often the wide player would know which options he had to deliver the ball & as all defenders are stupid, one of those players will always be unmarked.

Ted Hughes wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Problem No 1 is that all the stuff Tevez does like dropping deep & twisting, turning (that some people were moaning about last season because that moron Ireland can't play with him) is sorely missed as none of the other forwards can do it properly. So when we lose Tevez, we're not as effective & Silva has to do it on his own.

Problem 2 is that nobody can do DeJong's job except DeJong.

Problem 3 imo is that the defence & defensive part of the team still isn't a unit. We bossed the game v WBA but as soon as we came under any kind of pressure, only luck kept them from scoring yet they didn't do anything special to create those chances, just obvious, run of the mill football.

Problem 4 is still that most of the players don't cross a ball properly & when they do, nobody gets on the end of it. If anyone but Balotelli had been playing, the 1st goal wouldn't have been scored as nobody would have been in that position. Add to that the fact that we were the only team in the country without a headed goal until Ade the other day.

Problem 1 play Milner in Tevez role. Not as good but at least a battler.
Problem 2. see above post.. Komps or Milner again.
Problem 3 only time together can sort that.
Problem 4 Slightly disagree. Ade might have been there. Tevez crosses, Silva does, Ade has, AJ sometimes gets a delivery right.. thats not too bad, but you do have a point.

Ade would be stood 8 yards deeper waiting for the ball to be pulled back. Ideally imo when a player gets the ball in a wide or wideish position, we should have a player attacking the near post, far post where Balo was, stood back wher Ade would be, & arriving at the edge of the box wher Scholes/Lampard would be. If that happened often the wide player would know which options he had to deliver the ball & as all defenders are stupid, one of those players will always be unmarked.

This makes sense and I agree that players like Ade, and even tevez come deep for the cut back. Ballotelli could be the goal poacher we need.

Nick wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Problem No 1 is that all the stuff Tevez does like dropping deep & twisting, turning (that some people were moaning about last season because that moron Ireland can't play with him) is sorely missed as none of the other forwards can do it properly. So when we lose Tevez, we're not as effective & Silva has to do it on his own.

Problem 2 is that nobody can do DeJong's job except DeJong.

Problem 3 imo is that the defence & defensive part of the team still isn't a unit. We bossed the game v WBA but as soon as we came under any kind of pressure, only luck kept them from scoring yet they didn't do anything special to create those chances, just obvious, run of the mill football.

Problem 4 is still that most of the players don't cross a ball properly & when they do, nobody gets on the end of it. If anyone but Balotelli had been playing, the 1st goal wouldn't have been scored as nobody would have been in that position. Add to that the fact that we were the only team in the country without a headed goal until Ade the other day.

Problem 1 play Milner in Tevez role. Not as good but at least a battler.
Problem 2. see above post.. Komps or Milner again.
Problem 3 only time together can sort that.
Problem 4 Slightly disagree. Ade might have been there. Tevez crosses, Silva does, Ade has, AJ sometimes gets a delivery right.. thats not too bad, but you do have a point.

Ade would be stood 8 yards deeper waiting for the ball to be pulled back. Ideally imo when a player gets the ball in a wide or wideish position, we should have a player attacking the near post, far post where Balo was, stood back wher Ade would be, & arriving at the edge of the box wher Scholes/Lampard would be. If that happened often the wide player would know which options he had to deliver the ball & as all defenders are stupid, one of those players will always be unmarked.

This makes sense and I agree that players like Ade, and even tevez come deep for the cut back. Ballotelli could be the goal poacher we need.

Against FC Timmymallet & WBA, he's scored 2 tap ins from the kind of positions that Van Horseface used to take up. It seems simple enough yet so often players aren't there to cash in when the ball appears in those positions. He himself was AWOL from a potential tap in early doors v Wolves but it's hardly surprising after so long out injured.

Ted Hughes wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Problem No 1 is that all the stuff Tevez does like dropping deep & twisting, turning (that some people were moaning about last season because that moron Ireland can't play with him) is sorely missed as none of the other forwards can do it properly. So when we lose Tevez, we're not as effective & Silva has to do it on his own.

Problem 2 is that nobody can do DeJong's job except DeJong.

Problem 3 imo is that the defence & defensive part of the team still isn't a unit. We bossed the game v WBA but as soon as we came under any kind of pressure, only luck kept them from scoring yet they didn't do anything special to create those chances, just obvious, run of the mill football.

Problem 4 is still that most of the players don't cross a ball properly & when they do, nobody gets on the end of it. If anyone but Balotelli had been playing, the 1st goal wouldn't have been scored as nobody would have been in that position. Add to that the fact that we were the only team in the country without a headed goal until Ade the other day.

Problem 1 play Milner in Tevez role. Not as good but at least a battler.
Problem 2. see above post.. Komps or Milner again.
Problem 3 only time together can sort that.
Problem 4 Slightly disagree. Ade might have been there. Tevez crosses, Silva does, Ade has, AJ sometimes gets a delivery right.. thats not too bad, but you do have a point.

Ade would be stood 8 yards deeper waiting for the ball to be pulled back. Ideally imo when a player gets the ball in a wide or wideish position, we should have a player attacking the near post, far post where Balo was, stood back wher Ade would be, & arriving at the edge of the box wher Scholes/Lampard would be. If that happened often the wide player would know which options he had to deliver the ball & as all defenders are stupid, one of those players will always be unmarked.

What you describe will take time Ted no doubt about it, hopefully some signs of that emerging would be good but the whole pattern is something that comes with a lot of understanding.
Also i think you are still being a bit harsh on Ade. Balotelli may be the poacher we need but Ade is still the kind of player capable of that and be a 20 goals per season striker.

brite blu sky wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Problem No 1 is that all the stuff Tevez does like dropping deep & twisting, turning (that some people were moaning about last season because that moron Ireland can't play with him) is sorely missed as none of the other forwards can do it properly. So when we lose Tevez, we're not as effective & Silva has to do it on his own.

Problem 2 is that nobody can do DeJong's job except DeJong.

Problem 3 imo is that the defence & defensive part of the team still isn't a unit. We bossed the game v WBA but as soon as we came under any kind of pressure, only luck kept them from scoring yet they didn't do anything special to create those chances, just obvious, run of the mill football.

Problem 4 is still that most of the players don't cross a ball properly & when they do, nobody gets on the end of it. If anyone but Balotelli had been playing, the 1st goal wouldn't have been scored as nobody would have been in that position. Add to that the fact that we were the only team in the country without a headed goal until Ade the other day.

Problem 1 play Milner in Tevez role. Not as good but at least a battler.
Problem 2. see above post.. Komps or Milner again.
Problem 3 only time together can sort that.
Problem 4 Slightly disagree. Ade might have been there. Tevez crosses, Silva does, Ade has, AJ sometimes gets a delivery right.. thats not too bad, but you do have a point.

Ade would be stood 8 yards deeper waiting for the ball to be pulled back. Ideally imo when a player gets the ball in a wide or wideish position, we should have a player attacking the near post, far post where Balo was, stood back wher Ade would be, & arriving at the edge of the box wher Scholes/Lampard would be. If that happened often the wide player would know which options he had to deliver the ball & as all defenders are stupid, one of those players will always be unmarked.

What you describe will take time Ted no doubt about it, hopefully some signs of that emerging would be good but the whole pattern is something that comes with a lot of understanding.
Also i think you are still being a bit harsh on Ade. Balotelli may be the poacher we need but Ade is still the kind of player capable of that and be a 20 goals per season striker.

I'm not criticising Ade, I'm just stating that he tends to hang back deeper more often rather than go for the near or far post tap in like Horseface or Solskjaer etc used to do.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Nick wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Problem No 1 is that all the stuff Tevez does like dropping deep & twisting, turning (that some people were moaning about last season because that moron Ireland can't play with him) is sorely missed as none of the other forwards can do it properly. So when we lose Tevez, we're not as effective & Silva has to do it on his own.

Problem 2 is that nobody can do DeJong's job except DeJong.

Problem 3 imo is that the defence & defensive part of the team still isn't a unit. We bossed the game v WBA but as soon as we came under any kind of pressure, only luck kept them from scoring yet they didn't do anything special to create those chances, just obvious, run of the mill football.

Problem 4 is still that most of the players don't cross a ball properly & when they do, nobody gets on the end of it. If anyone but Balotelli had been playing, the 1st goal wouldn't have been scored as nobody would have been in that position. Add to that the fact that we were the only team in the country without a headed goal until Ade the other day.

Problem 1 play Milner in Tevez role. Not as good but at least a battler.
Problem 2. see above post.. Komps or Milner again.
Problem 3 only time together can sort that.
Problem 4 Slightly disagree. Ade might have been there. Tevez crosses, Silva does, Ade has, AJ sometimes gets a delivery right.. thats not too bad, but you do have a point.

Ade would be stood 8 yards deeper waiting for the ball to be pulled back. Ideally imo when a player gets the ball in a wide or wideish position, we should have a player attacking the near post, far post where Balo was, stood back wher Ade would be, & arriving at the edge of the box wher Scholes/Lampard would be. If that happened often the wide player would know which options he had to deliver the ball & as all defenders are stupid, one of those players will always be unmarked.

This makes sense and I agree that players like Ade, and even tevez come deep for the cut back. Ballotelli could be the goal poacher we need.

Against FC Timmymallet & WBA, he's scored 2 tap ins from the kind of positions that Van Horseface used to take up. It seems simple enough yet so often players aren't there to cash in when the ball appears in those positions. He himself was AWOL from a potential tap in early doors v Wolves but it's hardly surprising after so long out injured.

Agree, its not the actual technical ability, its all about the football brain and positioning.

That is why I love Silva so much. He is constantly on the move looking for space.

Ted Hughes wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

aristation wrote:A challenge for us is to develop one of the other midfielders into decent cover for de jong, unfortunately the best may be Kompany but he is busy elsewhere, Barry and Vieira haven't got the speed for 90 mins so that leaves.....................
Is it a waste of Milner but who else?

Milner and Komps would be the obvious ones. If Lescott could cover Koms he could probably do a decent job of it. As we are talking pretty much emrgencies when Nige isnt available, then Milner has the energy levels and has played like Barry in defence from time to time so should again do a half decent job.

Expecting the three mids to share the role just doesn't seem to work at all and just confuses the lot of them, so imo someone needs to step into it when needed. (NOT PV)

Milner has the ability to improve a great deal but doesn't yet have the defensive nous that Barry & DeJong have.

Who did Ade score a header against?

I think our main problem is our tendancy to match the team we are playing and not rise above them by imposing ourselves on them. Obviously, we did it yesterday and this season (Arsenal aside for obvious reasons) its not a problem when playing a top side, but I've seen too often that we get dragged into a cat and mouse situation against teams that would crumble if we just persisted.

Perhaps this comes with time/gelling and all that jazz...

Silva is fucking awesome. Over time hopefully the other players will learn from him & start to do similar things or we'll bring in more players on his level. A few players with that movement & we're like a PL version of Barca/Spain but with attitude.

Original Dub wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

aristation wrote:A challenge for us is to develop one of the other midfielders into decent cover for de jong, unfortunately the best may be Kompany but he is busy elsewhere, Barry and Vieira haven't got the speed for 90 mins so that leaves.....................
Is it a waste of Milner but who else?

Milner and Komps would be the obvious ones. If Lescott could cover Koms he could probably do a decent job of it. As we are talking pretty much emrgencies when Nige isnt available, then Milner has the energy levels and has played like Barry in defence from time to time so should again do a half decent job.

Expecting the three mids to share the role just doesn't seem to work at all and just confuses the lot of them, so imo someone needs to step into it when needed. (NOT PV)

Milner has the ability to improve a great deal but doesn't yet have the defensive nous that Barry & DeJong have.

Who did Ade score a header against?

I think our main problem is our tendancy to match the team we are playing and not rise above them by imposing ourselves on them. Obviously, we did it yesterday and this season (Arsenal aside for obvious reasons) its not a problem when playing a top side, but I've seen too often that we get dragged into a cat and mouse situation against teams that would crumble if we just persisted.

Perhaps this comes with time/gelling and all that jazz...

Ade got a header v Poznan home.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Original Dub wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:

aristation wrote:A challenge for us is to develop one of the other midfielders into decent cover for de jong, unfortunately the best may be Kompany but he is busy elsewhere, Barry and Vieira haven't got the speed for 90 mins so that leaves.....................
Is it a waste of Milner but who else?

Milner and Komps would be the obvious ones. If Lescott could cover Koms he could probably do a decent job of it. As we are talking pretty much emrgencies when Nige isnt available, then Milner has the energy levels and has played like Barry in defence from time to time so should again do a half decent job.

Expecting the three mids to share the role just doesn't seem to work at all and just confuses the lot of them, so imo someone needs to step into it when needed. (NOT PV)

Milner has the ability to improve a great deal but doesn't yet have the defensive nous that Barry & DeJong have.

Who did Ade score a header against?

I think our main problem is our tendancy to match the team we are playing and not rise above them by imposing ourselves on them. Obviously, we did it yesterday and this season (Arsenal aside for obvious reasons) its not a problem when playing a top side, but I've seen too often that we get dragged into a cat and mouse situation against teams that would crumble if we just persisted.

Perhaps this comes with time/gelling and all that jazz...

Ade got a header v Poznan home.

Ah true that, I was thinking of the last Poznan game, when the header was saved and he scored with the follow up!

aristation wrote:A challenge for us is to develop one of the other midfielders into decent cover for de jong, unfortunately the best may be Kompany but he is busy elsewhere, Barry and Vieira haven't got the speed for 90 mins so that leaves.....................
Is it a waste of Milner but who else?

Yaya. He did that job for BArcelona, didn't he?

CityFanFromRome wrote:

aristation wrote:A challenge for us is to develop one of the other midfielders into decent cover for de jong, unfortunately the best may be Kompany but he is busy elsewhere, Barry and Vieira haven't got the speed for 90 mins so that leaves.....................
Is it a waste of Milner but who else?

Yaya. He did that job for BArcelona, didn't he?

Indeed but so far he seems better going forward than defending for us.

Ted Hughes wrote:

CityFanFromRome wrote:

aristation wrote:A challenge for us is to develop one of the other midfielders into decent cover for de jong, unfortunately the best may be Kompany but he is busy elsewhere, Barry and Vieira haven't got the speed for 90 mins so that leaves.....................
Is it a waste of Milner but who else?

Yaya. He did that job for BArcelona, didn't he?

Indeed but so far he seems better going forward than defending for us.

Maybe he has never been specifically been given the duty to sit in front of the backline and defend yet though. I can't remmeber a game when he was playing in De Jong's position so far.