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Very cold to start with at Carrington for what was a low key training session the day before the Villa game. Everybody except Mario was present I think including Yaya back again and Ade/SWP. Micah looking fine again so no ill effects from yesterday.

After the regulation warm up stuff of jogging and stretches Ivan got them playing hand ball and the pssisng game where you have to be in the air to complete the pass.Some of them are not very well coordinated for that one. Then it was the tag game they often have fun with.It was funny to see who Carlos and Nigel would target in this but wasn't disappointed when they honed in on Vinnie:) I just get the feeling that Nigel especially has a really good relationship with Vinnie. The first target when it was Yaya and Jerome was the easy typical one yet again of Patrick.

Then into the football and a 10 a side game. Good goals for Dzeko and Jo were ruled out for off side before Kolarov got a replica of the Tuesday goal, Ade a penalty and Carlos a penalty. I am happy to note it was a very well taken pen as well but I don't think Carlos was best pleased when Lombardo cheered the goal quite loudly. Carlos gave him a good old stare:) Carlos then scored another after Dzeko challenged a defender and the ball broke to him. Barry scored a nice one with a good Jo assist and I started to lose track as goals started flying in.The funniest moment was when Vinnie went down in a challenge with somebody on top of him The rest seemed to think it was funny so plenty just piled in on top as you do.

I guess the watching photographers will have got the picture and wonder if any of them dare to send it in so that the wrong headline can be written.When Vinnie eventually got out the game had been going on for quiet a while. Enough of all that and Mancini ended the football and called everyone over for some team formation and pre Villa practice. Everyone that is apart from Ade and SWP. Shame.

Maybe Mancini worked with the team for Villa to start with and maybe not but he did the usual formation and passing work with initial emphasis on the attacking stuff.Then it was all into the penalty area for some work/discussion about corners and the angled free kicks. Mancini taking great care with the positioning of all the players but also spending time talking and pointing. It was 100+ yards away so I couldnt tell for sure what was going on. It wasnt a question of slinging cross after cross in but I guess just spending time getting the key issues dealt with.

One thing very clear was Nigel playing his part in proceedings from what I could see of his arm waving.Interesting that as Carlos had also seemed very involved a little earlier with the work going on with the attacking plays. Mancini watching on and I am sure happy with 2 of his key general's hands on input.Having worked with a possible team Mancini then switched 5 or 6 players over, bringing in a group that had been playing keep ball circle stuff on the sidelines.

That was it really. I was kept amused by a bright photographer who kept asking me questions about why they had moved from one pitch to another and then, when practicing the corners he said are they doing set pieces now. Clearly a top football man.He is the same one that asked which one is Carlos Tevez but he seems to have sussed him now.Right at the end I think I spotted MJ in the distance after finishing practice with the EDS players and having a long chat with Carminati, no doubt updating him on his fitness after the session.

Appreciated as always Doug

top report. swp and ade departing fairly soon then i guess.

Kinda sad how clueless some of those photographers are, thanks for the report Doug!

Thanks for that Doug.

Glad they're practicing corners etc & tbf, I thought they did very well on the whole v Leicester but it was often Lescott who cleared the ball, so if we're back to Kolo tomorrow, I hope he knows the drill.

Having studied recent corners, I can't see much evidence of a set zonal system. Sometimes there seems to be a bunch toward the near post with 6 marking 1 or 2 players, nobody blocking & leaving lots of players relatively unmarked, other times we seem spread out accross the 6 yard box, players blocking & have everything covered nicely. Doesn't seem to be consistent.

Ted Hughes wrote:Thanks for that Doug.

Glad they're practicing corners etc & tbf, I thought they did very well on the whole v Leicester but it was often Lescott who cleared the ball, so if we're back to Kolo tomorrow, I hope he knows the drill.

Having studied recent corners, I can't see much evidence of a set zonal system. Sometimes there seems to be a bunch toward the near post with 6 marking 1 or 2 players, nobody blocking & leaving lots of players relatively unmarked, other times we seem spread out accross the 6 yard box, players blocking & have everything covered nicely. Doesn't seem to be consistent.

The spreading out as you call it is what zonal is all about isn't it? The detail being that they don't just spread out a la Sunday football but they (some of them) have a specific position along the 6 yard box. Nobody blocking for sure and players left unmarked is bound to happen isn't it?

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Thanks for that Doug.

Glad they're practicing corners etc & tbf, I thought they did very well on the whole v Leicester but it was often Lescott who cleared the ball, so if we're back to Kolo tomorrow, I hope he knows the drill.

Having studied recent corners, I can't see much evidence of a set zonal system. Sometimes there seems to be a bunch toward the near post with 6 marking 1 or 2 players, nobody blocking & leaving lots of players relatively unmarked, other times we seem spread out accross the 6 yard box, players blocking & have everything covered nicely. Doesn't seem to be consistent.

The spreading out as you call it is what zonal is all about isn't it? The detail being that they don't just spread out a la Sunday football but they (some of them) have a specific position along the 6 yard box. Nobody blocking for sure and players left unmarked is bound to happen isn't it?

Well, it would also be like that if it wasn't zonal though; Dave Watson, Mike Doyle & Co would have been 'spread pout' accross the 6 yard box like that, so I don't know. I know some of the goals we've conceded recently, we've not often been spread out, but all bunched together in a group at the near post (literally about 6 marking 2), so surely if it was zonal, it would look pretty similar each time with everyone in their zones (or in the one zone!) rather than all in one zone one minute & then in more of a line the next!? Unless they're all just getting it horribly wrong of course! I can't figure it out but it changes, I know that.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Thanks for that Doug.

Glad they're practicing corners etc & tbf, I thought they did very well on the whole v Leicester but it was often Lescott who cleared the ball, so if we're back to Kolo tomorrow, I hope he knows the drill.

Having studied recent corners, I can't see much evidence of a set zonal system. Sometimes there seems to be a bunch toward the near post with 6 marking 1 or 2 players, nobody blocking & leaving lots of players relatively unmarked, other times we seem spread out accross the 6 yard box, players blocking & have everything covered nicely. Doesn't seem to be consistent.

The spreading out as you call it is what zonal is all about isn't it? The detail being that they don't just spread out a la Sunday football but they (some of them) have a specific position along the 6 yard box. Nobody blocking for sure and players left unmarked is bound to happen isn't it?

Well, it would also be like that if it wasn't zonal though; Dave Watson, Mike Doyle & Co would have been 'spread pout' accross the 6 yard box like that, so I don't know. I know some of the goals we've conceded recently, we've not often been spread out, but all bunched together in a group at the near post (literally about 6 marking 2), so surely if it was zonal, it would look pretty similar each time with everyone in their zones (or in the one zone!) rather than all in one zone one minute & then in more of a line the next!? Unless they're all just getting it horribly wrong of course! I can't figure it out but it changes, I know that.

Wow Ted reading that I am getting more and more confused so maybe that's what's happening to the players as well. As for Doyle and Watson though I just can't imagine either of them in a zonal system.They would have wanted to be given responsibilty for the opposition main man and by whatever means needed would stop him from getting his head on the ball.

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Thanks for that Doug.

Glad they're practicing corners etc & tbf, I thought they did very well on the whole v Leicester but it was often Lescott who cleared the ball, so if we're back to Kolo tomorrow, I hope he knows the drill.

Having studied recent corners, I can't see much evidence of a set zonal system. Sometimes there seems to be a bunch toward the near post with 6 marking 1 or 2 players, nobody blocking & leaving lots of players relatively unmarked, other times we seem spread out accross the 6 yard box, players blocking & have everything covered nicely. Doesn't seem to be consistent.

The spreading out as you call it is what zonal is all about isn't it? The detail being that they don't just spread out a la Sunday football but they (some of them) have a specific position along the 6 yard box. Nobody blocking for sure and players left unmarked is bound to happen isn't it?

Well, it would also be like that if it wasn't zonal though; Dave Watson, Mike Doyle & Co would have been 'spread pout' accross the 6 yard box like that, so I don't know. I know some of the goals we've conceded recently, we've not often been spread out, but all bunched together in a group at the near post (literally about 6 marking 2), so surely if it was zonal, it would look pretty similar each time with everyone in their zones (or in the one zone!) rather than all in one zone one minute & then in more of a line the next!? Unless they're all just getting it horribly wrong of course! I can't figure it out but it changes, I know that.

Wow Ted reading that I am getting more and more confused so maybe that's what's happening to the players as well. As for Doyle and Watson though I just can't imagine either of them in a zonal system.They would have wanted to be given responsibilty for the opposition main man and by whatever means needed would stop him from getting his head on the ball.

That's what I mean. They still would have been roughly in the same area though. I'm struggling to see exactly what we're doing. If you can be arsed at some point, this is the England youth bloke Brian Eastick explaining their zonal sytem. If that's what we were supposed to be doing v Wolves & v Leicester away, I think you'll agree it needs work!

http://en.uefa.com/trainingground/tacti ... oplay=true

Brilliant Report Doug

Thanks for that attachment Ted. The english coach didn't really explain what the blocking responsibilities were for the two banks of three. The great danger is a forward getting a run on the ball being met by a defender on a standing jump. No contest.

My view is as follows: First, I think we need one of our tallest players at the near post who can hopefully knock off a fair percentage of balls there and then. Ade performed that task well, maybe this is one for Dzeko. Second, if we are to have two banks of three they have to understand their blocking responsibilities. Third, you do need a good header in front of the far post to cover the man running in from the back; the player on the post is going to be a short player who can't be expected to perform that function. I couldn't see from the diagram whether the last two men of the two banks had that responsibility or whether they were positioned nearer the penalty spot. Finally you want at least one quick player upfield-Tevez presumably-to keep a couple of their players occupied and someone just outside the penalty area to compete and hopefuly win the ball if it's half cleared.

I've probably missed out some responsibilities and I'm up to 11!

blues2win wrote:Thanks for that attachment Ted. The english coach didn't really explain what the blocking responsibilities were for the two banks of three. The great danger is a forward getting a run on the ball being met by a defender on a standing jump. No contest.

My view is as follows: First, I think we need one of our tallest players at the near post who can hopefully knock off a fair percentage of balls there and then. Ade performed that task well, maybe this is one for Dzeko. Second, if we are to have two banks of three they have to understand their blocking responsibilities. Third, you do need a good header in front of the far post to cover the man running in from the back; the player on the post is going to be a short player who can't be expected to perform that function. I couldn't see from the diagram whether the last two men of the two banks had that responsibility or whether they were positioned nearer the penalty spot. Finally you want at least one quick player upfield-Tevez presumably-to keep a couple of their players occupied and someone just outside the penalty area to compete and hopefuly win the ball if it's half cleared.

I've probably missed out some responsibilities and I'm up to 11!

Watching that I would say we ceratainly don't seem to be doing much on the blocking of runs do we and maybe players are waiting for the ball to come and hit them on the head. After working on it a bit outside today i would expect work has been done inside with the players as well so lets hope we see an improvement in future games.

Villa will be a test for this the way they put crosses in.

blues2win wrote:Thanks for that attachment Ted. The english coach didn't really explain what the blocking responsibilities were for the two banks of three. The great danger is a forward getting a run on the ball being met by a defender on a standing jump. No contest.

My view is as follows: First, I think we need one of our tallest players at the near post who can hopefully knock off a fair percentage of balls there and then. Ade performed that task well, maybe this is one for Dzeko. Second, if we are to have two banks of three they have to understand their blocking responsibilities. Third, you do need a good header in front of the far post to cover the man running in from the back; the player on the post is going to be a short player who can't be expected to perform that function. I couldn't see from the diagram whether the last two men of the two banks had that responsibility or whether they were positioned nearer the penalty spot. Finally you want at least one quick player upfield-Tevez presumably-to keep a couple of their players occupied and someone just outside the penalty area to compete and hopefuly win the ball if it's half cleared.

I've probably missed out some responsibilities and I'm up to 11!

Although we would lose some height in our penalty area, I would like us to use Yaya as our break-away player when defending corners. I don't think we have anyone in the team that has such lethal runs. he can easily go by 2-3 players once he's gained some momentum.

Cheers Doug, it's good to see the likes of Nige and Carlos being given the go-ahead to lead the field. Combined with what you've said about the defence I'm guessing that a lot has been said in the tactics room and he is addressing the recent run of goals conceded.

With regard to the Zonal Formation, it is still zonal with different variants that we are using dependant on players and opposition tactics. The defence are still positioning themselves in set positions to counter-act what has most probably been seen in recordings of our oppo's games, ie. ball to near post for flick-on's etc. Also, thi is why we now see a lot of teams taking quick short corners while our defence are sorting out their positions, leaving us a little exposed. I've noticed that Nige has been the man to keep an eye out but they usually get away with it on the 1st couple of occassions leading to further pressure and our defence no set for the more angled ball.

really good report Doug, many thanks.

have to agree with the comments on the marking system.. or lack of. Can't see any pattern at all.

I could well see them getting plenty of practice though now that teams will have watched the last few games.

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:That was it really. I was kept amused by a bright photographer who kept asking me questions about why they had moved from one pitch to another and then, when practicing the corners he said are they doing set pieces now. Clearly a top football man.He is the same one that asked which one is Carlos Tevez but he seems to have sussed him now

is that him DH?

brite blu sky wrote:really good report Doug, many thanks.

have to agree with the comments on the marking system.. or lack of. Can't see any pattern at all.

I could well see them getting plenty of practice though now that teams will have watched the last few games.

I think the recent problems are down to our lack of forward presence from the set piece, with players thinking more of rushing out to get on the break than concentrating on getting the ball out first. The fact that all our players are in the box causes other problems, and I'm wondering if Mancini is using it as a ploy to pull more of their players away from defensive positions.

The opposition we've had in the last 3 may have made us a little lax as well.

ant london wrote:

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:That was it really. I was kept amused by a bright photographer who kept asking me questions about why they had moved from one pitch to another and then, when practicing the corners he said are they doing set pieces now. Clearly a top football man.He is the same one that asked which one is Carlos Tevez but he seems to have sussed him now

is that him DH?

No it isn't. The one on the left is a scum fan and knows a bit the other one I think is a scum fan and knows little. The one I referred to is a lot further right than the picture shown.That picture actually misses me by about a yard.I wonder if that was by design?

ant london wrote:

Fuck me, how tall are them???

Beefymcfc wrote:

ant london wrote:

Fuck me, how tall are them???

lol they splashed out for bigger steps than mine.