The mancityfans.net football forum

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:38 pm**

as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:50 pm**

[quote="Arjan Van Schotte"]as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.[/quote]
is that tongue in cheek?

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:54 pm**

9secondlegend wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.

is that tongue in cheek?

no.

why?

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:58 pm**

Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
9secondlegend wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.

is that tongue in cheek?

no.

why?

I love your sig.

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:01 pm**

Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
9secondlegend wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.

is that tongue in cheek?

no.

why?

your saying crawley should be not allowed promotion for buying it?

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:04 pm**

gillie wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
no.

why?

I love your sig.

so do i - what's your point mate?

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:06 pm**

9secondlegend wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
9secondlegend wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.

is that tongue in cheek?

no.

why?

your saying crawley should be not allowed promotion for buying it?

absolutely. there are some proper football teams in there with a lot of history and a good support that will miss out just coz someone chucked some cash at em. outrageous.

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:10 pm**

Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
9secondlegend wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
9secondlegend wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.

is that tongue in cheek?

no.

why?

your saying crawley should be not allowed promotion for buying it?

absolutely. there are some proper football teams in there with a lot of history and a good support that will miss out just coz someone chucked some cash at em. outrageous.

dam it
you nearly had me then ;0)

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:15 pm**

9secondlegend wrote:dam it
you nearly had me then ;0)

fine line mate, fine line :)

although i would rather have wimbledon or fleetwood up. or york or wrexham.

luton and crawley can suck my balls - both indeterminate towns with no character :)

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:26 pm**

Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
gillie wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:
no.

why?

I love your sig.

so do i - what's your point mate?

Its a form of nepotism lol.

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:59 pm**

Arjan Van Schotte wrote:as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.

I think quite a lot affects this:

#1. Essentially, football and rugby are the only sports played at this time of the year in Britain (most other countries have handball- the second biggest spectator sport in Europe- and basketball running equivalent seasons).

#2. Football in the lower divisions is relatively cheap in comparison to wages in England.

#3. England has more professional leagues (compare the setup to Germany for example, which has 3 national leagues, the rest is regionalised), and a longer history of having more professional leagues.

#4. The sense of 'Landeskunde' (this isn't the right word, I know, but think of it as 'local pride') in Germanic and former Austro-Hungarian countries means that a village game may get 400-600 people, almost unheard of in the English game.

#5. Britain is the fifth largest country in Europe, and, excluding micronations and suchlike, the most densely populated after Belgium and the Netherlands. I can't be bothered to drag up the stats, but I guess that a far, far higher percentage of the population live within 20 miles of a professional football team in England than any other European state excluding the Netherlands and micronations.

#6. Of the 53 UEFA States, 11 were part of the Soviet Union, and 6 part of Yugoslavia, which had far more competitive leagues than their successor states, with smaller teams filling up the spaces left by the separation of each former state. That's 32% of UEFA-affiliated leagues formed from just 2 that existed in 1990.

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:22 am**

dunno what your point is mate but i'll try answer a few below:

BlueinBosnia wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.

I think quite a lot affects this:

#1. Essentially, football and rugby are the only sports played at this time of the year in Britain (most other countries have handball- the second biggest spectator sport in Europe- and basketball running equivalent seasons). dunno bout this - handball games i've been to haven't been well attended - and the ones i've seen on tv have been 5,000 tops?

#2. Football in the lower divisions is relatively cheap in comparison to wages in England.it costs more to get in at 7th tier halifax town that it does at 1st tier st pauli?

#3. England has more professional leagues (compare the setup to Germany for example, which has 3 national leagues, the rest is regionalised), and a longer history of having more professional leagues.not sure what point you are making? germany has more registered players than england iirc and the regionalliga are semi pro a lot of the time?

#4. The sense of 'Landeskunde' (this isn't the right word, I know, but think of it as 'local pride') in Germanic and former Austro-Hungarian countries means that a village game may get 400-600 people, almost unheard of in the English game. agreed - bit like riugby in many english communities?

#5. Britain is the fifth largest country in Europe, and, excluding micronations and suchlike, the most densely populated after Belgium and the Netherlands. I can't be bothered to drag up the stats, but I guess that a far, far higher percentage of the population live within 20 miles of a professional football team in England than any other European state excluding the Netherlands and micronations.

#6. Of the 53 UEFA States, 11 were part of the Soviet Union, and 6 part of Yugoslavia, which had far more competitive leagues than their successor states, with smaller teams filling up the spaces left by the separation of each former state. That's 32% of UEFA-affiliated leagues formed from just 2 that existed in 1990.

soviet union was a pretty big place!

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:33 am**

Arjan Van Schotte wrote:dunno what your point is mate but i'll try answer a few below:

BlueinBosnia wrote:
Arjan Van Schotte wrote:as resident statto (apparently) "we've" got a better avg attendance for last year of our 4th tier against the 2nd tier of everyone else apart from, germany,

- and we've got better in our 4th tier than the 3rd of them.

also - in our 5th tier (conference) - we've got 10 out of the top 12 that are former FL clubs. does anyone have a preference for who they'd like to see in/out of the league?

personally - really hope that wimbledon get up and mk somehow implode and would also like to see fleetwood (northern) and york, luton (history) come up.

looks like crawley will be the team tho - but they've bought their way to success and should be debarred on that basis.

I think quite a lot affects this:

#1. Essentially, football and rugby are the only sports played at this time of the year in Britain (most other countries have handball- the second biggest spectator sport in Europe- and basketball running equivalent seasons). dunno bout this - handball games i've been to haven't been well attended - and the ones i've seen on tv have been 5,000 tops? Yes, but this is due to the fact it's an indoor sport, with many arenas having a very limited capacity (some of the World Cup matches being held at the moment are getting 500-600 spectators). This doesn't stop it being the second most watched spectator sport in Europe, a sport for which England has no professional league

#2. Football in the lower divisions is relatively cheap in comparison to wages in England.it costs more to get in at 7th tier halifax town that it does at 1st tier st pauli? a) Halifax, b) St. Pauli, and c) the Bundesliga are all anomalies here, as you well know. Bosnian third tier games cost about 2 Euros to enter- the quality of football on offer is, I'd say, equivalent to the 7th or 8th English tier, for 2.5 hours working at the minimum wage- that would be about 16 quid to watch a match in the UK

#3. England has more professional leagues (compare the setup to Germany for example, which has 3 national leagues, the rest is regionalised), and a longer history of having more professional leagues.not sure what point you are making? germany has more registered players than england iirc and the regionalliga are semi pro a lot of the time?I thought we were talking about attendances here? Surely, the higher the number of people playing, the less potential audience there is? The point I'm making is that ex-football league teams, and even ex-top flight teams have fallen down the leagues during people's lifetimes. Many of these still attend games nowadays, even when the team is in the 5th or 6th tier. This doesn't seem to be the case so much in other European countries.

#4. The sense of 'Landeskunde' (this isn't the right word, I know, but think of it as 'local pride') in Germanic and former Austro-Hungarian countries means that a village game may get 400-600 people, almost unheard of in the English game. agreed - bit like riugby in many english communities?Agreed, but this is about football attendances, and why they are better in England than everywhere else. Our totally amateur games are never so well attended as this.

#5. Britain is the fifth largest country in Europe, and, excluding micronations and suchlike, the most densely populated after Belgium and the Netherlands. I can't be bothered to drag up the stats, but I guess that a far, far higher percentage of the population live within 20 miles of a professional football team in England than any other European state excluding the Netherlands and micronations.

#6. Of the 53 UEFA States, 11 were part of the Soviet Union, and 6 part of Yugoslavia, which had far more competitive leagues than their successor states, with smaller teams filling up the spaces left by the separation of each former state. That's 32% of UEFA-affiliated leagues formed from just 2 that existed in 1990. soviet union was a pretty big place!With a relatively decent football league that wasn't funded by cash injections from oligarchs!

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:48 am**

can't answer that point by point like above coz the colours are hurting my eyes already!!

really don't think handball has much effect - the point about rugby is that we have competing sports too. in any case - some countries get more than football for things like ice hockey.

point about pricing i really think is invalid - and yes i did use 2 extremes but that's still quite a statement. i tak ethe point with poor countries but pretty much all of northern europe has a similar standard of living but pretty much always cheaper prices at all levels.

i don't think highest number of players affects attendances - s'all about overall interest. there's a clear and obvious correlation between numbers playing and numbers spectating around the globe.

not entirely true about clubs elsewhere that have fallen from grace losing their attendances more than the uk - there are anomalies everywhere.

can't find any figures but it would be interesting to see how many people per head of population regularly watch football down to semi-pro level. surely we'd be top?

for any other stats fans that haven't found this site http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm check it out :)

Posted: **Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:46 pm**

well, as you talked about handball in germany.

The ranking of attendances in germany shows 26 football clubs on top.The first non-football club is the ice hockey team of Eisbären Berlin with an average attendance of 13.900. The most popular handball clubs HSV Hamburg and THW Kiel have an average attendance of 10,737/10,250 and are ranked 35th and 36th. The biggest basketball club Alba Berlin has some 9.500 fans per match. Among the top 100 clubs with the highest attendances in germany there are 44 non football clubs from ice hockey, handball and basketball

Over the years the boom of the Bundesliga caused a sharp decline in attendance figures in lower leagues. League 3 is still okay, but in league 4 many traditional clubs are in finacial trouble (also caused by the problem of large number of reserve teams from Bundesliga Clubs in those leagues which have no supporters.)

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:35 am**

Knappe wrote:Among the top 100 clubs with the highest attendances in germany there are 44 non football clubs from ice hockey, handball and basketball

That's a pretty cool statistic. I reckon there's less than 20 in England (although possibly around 60-70 in Wales). Is there a wiki page for it or something?

Posted: **Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:02 pm**

It´s the monthly attendance report from stadionwelt magazine. I hope, the link works
http://www.stadionwelt-fans.de/index.php?folder=sites&site=top100

Posted: **Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:28 am**

Speedway gets big crowds in Poland. It's a summer sport mind, so I'm not entirely sure why I mentioned it. But I did.

Posted: **Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:05 am**

Well I hope in 2 seasons we're seeing FC Halifax fighting for a place back in the football league. Well on their way to being promoted to the Blue Square North next season now

Posted: **Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:18 am**

craigmcfc wrote:Well I hope in 2 seasons we're seeing FC Halifax fighting for a place back in the football league. Well on their way to being promoted to the Blue Square North next season now

and on a Speedway note Craig have you seen Belle Vue have signed Bomber Harris and Rory Shlein for 2011? we should be a good side but I said that last season!

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