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If people feel that this needs to be in the match thread then please move but this is a wider issue than today's game so I feel it needs it's own thread.

He isn't doing enough when the chips are down. He's not a scapegoat for my frustration, I don't think we played too badly today but he was certainly a weak link. He looked like he was on his arse after five minutes, like a man who was taking his last breath. He lacked energy, movement and presence, the game passed him by.

This is becoming a far too familiar story in big games. He looks great at home when we're on top against one of the weaker teams. When we really need him to show his class, he just doesn't deliver. The debate about his fitness has been had many times, my view is that it is severely lacking. Fitness aside, I just don't think he recognises that we need him to lead and be a factor in big games like this. He should be bursting to grab the game by the balls and stamp his name on it. He just doesn't seem to grasp his role in the side.

Anonymous today when we needed him to play like a giant.

It fascinates me how many headers he fails to win. How the fuck did Evra manage to outjump him?

Blue Toy wrote:It fascinates me how many headers he fails to win. How the fuck did Evra manage to outjump him?

By fouling him.

I thought he was very slow in tracking back after supoorting Tevez. I think we would have been better served having Milner in that role (although he did go off with injury).

CityGer wrote:If people feel that this needs to be in the match thread then please move but this is a wider issue than today's game so I feel it needs it's own thread.

He isn't doing enough when the chips are down. He's not a scapegoat for my frustration, I don't think we played too badly today but he was certainly a weak link. He looked like he was on his arse after five minutes, like a man who was taking his last breath. He lacked energy, movement and presence, the game passed him by.

This is becoming a far too familiar story in big games. He looks great at home when we're on top against one of the weaker teams. When we really need him to show his class, he just doesn't deliver. The debate about his fitness has been had many times, my view is that it is severely lacking. Fitness aside, I just don't think he recognises that we need him to lead and be a factor in big games like this. He should be bursting to grab the game by the balls and stamp his name on it. He just doesn't seem to grasp his role in the side.

Anonymous today when we needed him to play like a giant.

So who do we play instead? Vieira?

Thought he did ok myself.

At Barca he was a defensive mid. The problem is he's not the player we're trying to play him as. Yes he is capable of a lung bursting run, or a decent finish but he isn't a player who will cut defences open. He is primarily a defensive midfielder capable of the odd burst forward.
He is not an attacking midfielder.

I think he has a stamina problem. I saw him a thew times with his tongue out after an opportunity or an acceleration.
To be fair, he plays excellent when Nige is around. Maybe that's the problem.

Tokyo Blue wrote:

CityGer wrote:If people feel that this needs to be in the match thread then please move but this is a wider issue than today's game so I feel it needs it's own thread.

He isn't doing enough when the chips are down. He's not a scapegoat for my frustration, I don't think we played too badly today but he was certainly a weak link. He looked like he was on his arse after five minutes, like a man who was taking his last breath. He lacked energy, movement and presence, the game passed him by.

This is becoming a far too familiar story in big games. He looks great at home when we're on top against one of the weaker teams. When we really need him to show his class, he just doesn't deliver. The debate about his fitness has been had many times, my view is that it is severely lacking. Fitness aside, I just don't think he recognises that we need him to lead and be a factor in big games like this. He should be bursting to grab the game by the balls and stamp his name on it. He just doesn't seem to grasp his role in the side.

Anonymous today when we needed him to play like a giant.

So who do we play instead? Vieira?

Aren't I allowed to post my views, Tokyo? I know you dislike me, you always have, but your tone suggests my point isn't valid.

How about a counter argument?

In answer to your question, and considering De Jong was missing, maybe Vieria would have been a better bet today. At least he has a sense of pride and built in desire to win. Yaya lacks that from what I can see.

Blue2 wrote:Thought he did ok myself.

Ok,that sums him up perfectly.

To me he is a 90% player,he never quite does enough,the question being - could he?

I'm not sure there is a place for him in our midfield,after all we have an atttacking creative presence better than him and a defensive one who is also better.What Toure offers we don't really need in our first 11.

Thought along with Micah and David he was one of our best player today

Not one of his best performances but like every City player today Yaya was impeccable for me!

Rag_hater wrote:Thought along with Micah and David he was one of our best player today

Micah,Vince and Silva for me

CityGer wrote:If people feel that this needs to be in the match thread then please move but this is a wider issue than today's game so I feel it needs it's own thread.

He isn't doing enough when the chips are down. He's not a scapegoat for my frustration, I don't think we played too badly today but he was certainly a weak link. He looked like he was on his arse after five minutes, like a man who was taking his last breath. He lacked energy, movement and presence, the game passed him by.

This is becoming a far too familiar story in big games. He looks great at home when we're on top against one of the weaker teams. When we really need him to show his class, he just doesn't deliver. The debate about his fitness has been had many times, my view is that it is severely lacking. Fitness aside, I just don't think he recognises that we need him to lead and be a factor in big games like this. He should be bursting to grab the game by the balls and stamp his name on it. He just doesn't seem to grasp his role in the side.

Anonymous today when we needed him to play like a giant.

Good call mate, in general. He was lost in the 2nd half, but at the same time was our cover after Milner went off.

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:At Barca he was a defensive mid. The problem is he's not the player we're trying to play him as. Yes he is capable of a lung bursting run, or a decent finish but he isn't a player who will cut defences open. He is primarily a defensive midfielder capable of the odd burst forward.
He is not an attacking midfielder.

problem is, that lung bursting run would be a gentle jog for anyone else...

Did ok. Better than most of Utd's players. Problem is we have so few attacking options in the various areas of the pitch considering we've spent so much money.

Ted Hughes wrote:Did ok. Better than most of Utd's players. Problem is we have so few attacking options in the various areas of the pitch considering we've spent so much money.

Exactly that.We are missing a midfielder with a physical and mental tempo,one who can operate on the same wavelength as Silva and one who can support the forward(s) with pace.

DJ,Milner,Barry and Yaya are very one dimensional and more to the point,very similar in their style,they do not compliment each other.As soon as SWP came on the entire team looked more creative,balanced and threatening - i wish Nani was neither a Rag or a cnut.....
We need to find our own.

Ted Hughes wrote:Did ok. Better than most of Utd's players. Problem is we have so few attacking options in the various areas of the pitch considering we've spent so much money.

I totally agree Ted and I don't get it.

Strange post, one of our better players today.

I thought he did alright as well. He was certainly as active and involved as Barry. Milner probably edge it over those two in the first half, before going out injured.