The mancityfans.net football forum

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/mar/27/david-james-loan-players

I found that column quite interesting. James has always been million miles more observing than your average footballer and I usually read his stuff with some interest.

I think he raises good point about what sort of players end up in loan circuit going from place to place. Generally young players NEED first team experience but I prefer long loans. Young players who end going from place to place on short term loans are poor trainers, I believe. Managers and coaches who work with the players from day to day usually like to keep hard workers around them if for no other reason than to just set example to other players in training ground.

CityFanFromRome wrote:I agree, the 3 months loans are a waste of time imho; and we shouldn 't loan our players to teams in the championship or lower, but only to Prem sides. That's how a player really develops, confronting himself with the reality of the hardest league in the country, not with those below it.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

CityFanFromRome wrote:I agree, the 3 months loans are a waste of time imho; and we shouldn 't loan our players to teams in the championship or lower, but only to Prem sides. That's how a player really develops, confronting himself with the reality of the hardest league in the country, not with those below it.

Got to disagree with that though.
Playing against competitive games against grown men aids players development million times more than playing Youth games or reserve games. Personally I think that once our brightest young talents are ready for it (eightee? Nineteen?) they should be sent for long loans to either Championship or 1st division and see whether they sink or swim against grown men. I agree with Ant that we should not hold on to players who have zero chance of making it for too long. If they are 20 and don't look like good enough for even 1st division level, they have little chance of making it with us. Better to just let them find their true level elsewhere.

Chinners wrote:The will always be a few players that can be chucked straight in like Wiltshire by they are the exception in general.

Chinners wrote:Loaning to championship sides is much better for us and the player. The player will get more starts and get used to actually playing professional football at a decent level first. The majority of players chucked into Prem footie straight away tend to suffer if they've not had the grounding and invariably end up playing in the Championship at best later on. It's good for the club as the players won't affect our results/position by playing lower down (ok in some instances this could be a bonus) and concentration on the players developement is better served. The will always be a few players that can be chucked straight in like Wiltshire by they are the exception in general.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Chinners wrote:Loaning to championship sides is much better for us and the player. The player will get more starts and get used to actually playing professional football at a decent level first. The majority of players chucked into Prem footie straight away tend to suffer if they've not had the grounding and invariably end up playing in the Championship at best later on. It's good for the club as the players won't affect our results/position by playing lower down (ok in some instances this could be a bonus) and concentration on the players developement is better served. The will always be a few players that can be chucked straight in like Wiltshire by they are the exception in general.

I agree with this.
Wilshire is poor example as he is simply out of this world talent who is destined for top. You could already see that when he was 16. He'll take over from Gerrard in year or two and will lead England for next decade (and a half probably).

For "ordinary good" talent like Nimley and Guidetti, Championship would be the best place. They are good enough to be regular starters at that level and would have to shoulder genuine responsibility of the team. Yet, they'd play against good quality opposition and would be surrounded by good quality players. People sometimes forget how much English second tier football has moved forward in past 20 years. Most of the teams play very good quality football and there are very few journeyman "break your legs son" centerbacks there anymore. Even in 1st division about one fourth of teams play decent football. When loaning players to 1st division you have got to be careful about the club you loan the players to and what sort of management and coaching they have got.

To expand this little, I would suggest that we'd find three GENUINE partnership clubs for three different purposes. And I'm not talking about some crappy Singapore teams for marketing purposes.

First, I think we should find a 1st division club to subscribes to our ideas of football. Someone with strong history of youth development and ideas about playing good football. Out of current teams Southampton, Charlton and [highlight]Sheffield Wednesday[/highlight] would suit that idea. They would all welcome top talent as they are in financial trouble (Charlton not so much but you get the picture).

Second, we should find a Swedish team. Reason is simple, their season is played during the summer. We should send young players there to gain experience during the summer. When they come back in autumn they could have much needed break then and be back in training around early november with strong experience behind them. Swedish league, while not elite, is alright quality and most importantly football is very similar to England, fast paced and physical.

Third, we should have a team in Belgium. This is only for EU citizenship purposes.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Chinners wrote:Loaning to championship sides is much better for us and the player. The player will get more starts and get used to actually playing professional football at a decent level first. The majority of players chucked into Prem footie straight away tend to suffer if they've not had the grounding and invariably end up playing in the Championship at best later on. It's good for the club as the players won't affect our results/position by playing lower down (ok in some instances this could be a bonus) and concentration on the players developement is better served. The will always be a few players that can be chucked straight in like Wiltshire by they are the exception in general.

I agree with this.
Wilshire is poor example as he is simply out of this world talent who is destined for top. You could already see that when he was 16. He'll take over from Gerrard in year or two and will lead England for next decade (and a half probably).

For "ordinary good" talent like Nimley and Guidetti, Championship would be the best place. They are good enough to be regular starters at that level and would have to shoulder genuine responsibility of the team. Yet, they'd play against good quality opposition and would be surrounded by good quality players. People sometimes forget how much English second tier football has moved forward in past 20 years. Most of the teams play very good quality football and there are very few journeyman "break your legs son" centerbacks there anymore. Even in 1st division about one fourth of teams play decent football. When loaning players to 1st division you have got to be careful about the club you loan the players to and what sort of management and coaching they have got.

To expand this little, I would suggest that we'd find three GENUINE partnership clubs for three different purposes. And I'm not talking about some crappy Singapore teams for marketing purposes.

First, I think we should find a 1st division club to subscribes to our ideas of football. Someone with strong history of youth development and ideas about playing good football. Out of current teams Southampton, Charlton and Sheffield Wednesday would suit that idea. They would all welcome top talent as they are in financial trouble (Charlton not so much but you get the picture).

Second, we should find a Swedish team. Reason is simple, their season is played during the summer. We should send young players there to gain experience during the summer. When they come back in autumn they could have much needed break then and be back in training around early november with strong experience behind them. Swedish league, while not elite, is alright quality and most importantly football is very similar to England, fast paced and physical.

Third, we should have a team in Belgium. This is only for EU citizenship purposes.

Rag_hater wrote:
I think we should be looking to place our good kids all over Europe in teams that play at a higher level than our Championship teams.Like Phil is playing in a high division in Spain it is gonna do him more good than if he had gone to Cardiff.
Like you say Sweeden and Belgium have there attractions but I think we should be more expansive than that.