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We always hear how consistency is the key, and you should stick with the manager and give him time.
Obviously this is all in reference to Fergiescum. I was just thinking, are there any other cases where this actually applies, other than to him?
Take Wenger. He's well under achieving and has been for years, and the arse have stuck with him, is it worth it? I know they're challenging for the title, but in true arse fashion, they'll bottle it and finish 4th. Then there is moyes, who did ok for a bit, and now is dropping into mediocrity. Ok, he's got no dough, and been unlucky with injuries, and to Everton maybe seen as a success, but its not really got them anywhere has it?
Take Barca. They change managers every 3 years or so. Its not like they fall apart. all the big teams in italy also, and the rest of the teams in spain. Even Bayern etc.
So I think Fergiescum is the exception, rather than the rule, and if the man you've got in isn't the right man, then changes need to be made.
Agreed?

I agree to an extent; for example, teams in Italy change managers not because they want to, but because after a number of years, teams usually don't get the same results anymore with the same manager; it's what here we call a "cycle"; the new manager comes, takes a season\a season and a half to get the team to the best he can, then he keeps it there for a time varying from 3 to 7 years (in Ancelotti's case at Milan); then there's a fading season where it's apparent something is broken and so the manager is sacked/resigns and a new one comes in; the process then starts again.

Fergiescum is definitely an exception to the rule because of the lenght of his "cycle", but this doesn't mean you should chop managers every season either.

CityFanFromRome wrote:I agree to an extent; for example, teams in Italy change managers not because they want to, but because after a number of years, teams usually don't get the same results anymore with the same manager; it's what here we call a "cycle"; the new manager comes, takes a season\a season and a half to get the team to the best he can, then he keeps it there for a time varying from 3 to 7 years (in Ancelotti's case at Milan); then there's a fading season where it's apparent something is broken and so the manager is sacked/resigns and a new one comes in; the process then starts again.

Fergiescum is definitely an exception to the rule because of the lenght of his "cycle", but this doesn't mean you should chop managers every season either.

I wasn't saying every season mate, but was just justifying against what would be the usual "stick with the manager" comments that would undoubtably come when Bob goes.
You're in favour of sticking with him aren't you?

The only reason Arsenal are challenging is because of Wenger he has the nack to pick out gems from the continent.
Arsenal have stuck with him because he has kept them in the Champions league without spending much money so they can pay the stadium off.

If we finish top 4 I'm in favor of sticking with him as thgat was the target. If we don't then he has to go like Leslie

lets all have a disco wrote:The only reason Arsenal are challenging is because of Wenger he has the nack to pick out gems from the continent.
Arsenal have stuck with him because he has kept them in the Champions league without spending much money so they can pay the stadium off.

But he is still underachieving with that squad. They are always on the verge, but should be winning pots.

Bingo Lewis wrote:

lets all have a disco wrote:The only reason Arsenal are challenging is because of Wenger he has the nack to pick out gems from the continent.
Arsenal have stuck with him because he has kept them in the Champions league without spending much money so they can pay the stadium off.

But he is still underachieving with that squad. They are always on the verge, but should be winning pots.

He needs to spend big on the defence and keeper,he hasnt been allowed to.

I think Wenger has done a brilliant job,he took them from the old ground to a new gaff they adjusted easily and started to make massive inroads paying it off.
Meanwhile keeping the Arse there or there abouts,if this Stan guy lets rip with a bit of cash then who knows where they could go.

Bingo Lewis wrote:

lets all have a disco wrote:The only reason Arsenal are challenging is because of Wenger he has the nack to pick out gems from the continent.
Arsenal have stuck with him because he has kept them in the Champions league without spending much money so they can pay the stadium off.

But he is still underachieving with that squad. They are always on the verge, but should be winning pots.

I'd still trade places with them.

Bingo Lewis wrote:I wasn't saying every season mate, but was just justifying against what would be the usual "stick with the manager" comments that would undoubtably come when Bob goes.
You're in favour of sticking with him aren't you?

I'm starting to think we should change, to be honest. I'm just at a loss about who we could get in in his place, apart for the obvious Mourinho, provided he leaves Madrid.

There are two different aspects imo; the club & the 1st team.

The club needs a philosophy & a direction which remains unchanged. It has that now, it didn't 2 years ago, it was all part of the manager's job but not anymore; it's independant of him.

The 1st team needs a coach who signs the right players & wins stuff, preferably in an entertaining manner. Normally it would take years to build what we have but our resources have allowed us to do it quicker. Hughes & Bob have signed the basis of a top 5-6 squad & it needs someone to add the right players to finish it off & organise it correctly. Hughes was sacked before this stage was reached & Bob has so far been useless. Neither showed any star quality & we can do better than either of them.

Bob could possibly get us there but I recon there are also 20 other managers could do just as well & some much much better. We won't even blink if he's sacked as the club now runs without him.

looking at some other clubs changing managers our record in that dept is not so bad,since keegan and including keegan in 2004 we have had 5 managers and in that same period spurs 6,liverpool 4, real madrid 9,inter 5, milan 3, barcelona 2

I'm as pissed off as the next guy with Mancini's tactics etc, but I cannot help but think that the team are equally to blame with our problems......

We play with no heart, no soul, and it shows so much in games like last night. I hate it when the lads in the pub go on about City having a dream team of primadonas that dont gel but we all know its the truth.

By all means bring the special one in but I really think that the team just lacks the drive to win things. How many times has it been "ours to lose" and we do just that? This should have been our dream week, beat the dippers last night to nigh on secure a chumps league spot and then beat the scum on Saturday to be in the first final for longer than I have been alive and look what we did!

Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs all stand up and perform in these cases (mostly), we just crumble away...........

Its a hard life being a City supporter

gilford wrote:I'm as pissed off as the next guy with Mancini's tactics etc, but I cannot help but think that the team are equally to blame with our problems......

We play with no heart, no soul, and it shows so much in games like last night. I hate it when the lads in the pub go on about City having a dream team of primadonas that dont gel but we all know its the truth.

Last night our midfield was OWNED by Meireles and Spearing (who?) ......... that's down to the manager leaving de Jong out and playing Barry mate.

Kladze wrote:Last night our midfield was OWNED by Meireles and Spearing (who?) ......... that's down to the manager leaving de Jong out and playing Barry mate.

I totally agree with you, he did make some silly changes, but we still had YaYa, Ballo, Johnson etc out there and how many shots did we have on target?

Bingo Lewis wrote:We always hear how consistency is the key, and you should stick with the manager and give him time.
Obviously this is all in reference to Fergiescum. I was just thinking, are there any other cases where this actually applies, other than to him?
Take Wenger. He's well under achieving and has been for years, and the arse have stuck with him, is it worth it? I know they're challenging for the title, but in true arse fashion, they'll bottle it and finish 4th. Then there is moyes, who did ok for a bit, and now is dropping into mediocrity. Ok, he's got no dough, and been unlucky with injuries, and to Everton maybe seen as a success, but its not really got them anywhere has it?
Take Barca. They change managers every 3 years or so. Its not like they fall apart. all the big teams in italy also, and the rest of the teams in spain. Even Bayern etc.
So I think Fergiescum is the exception, rather than the rule, and if the man you've got in isn't the right man, then changes need to be made.
Agreed?

There is a queue of managers who want to work for Real, Barcelona, Bayern et al because of their success. We've had no success so we are not in the position to pick and choose like the really successful clubs are. Having a lot of money does not provide the same level of attraction as being successful on a regular basis.

Who can we realistically get to replace Mancini? I'd love to know. And please don't give me Mourinho. He is not going to leave Real Madrid for us. Nobody would - unless perhaps they were about to get sacked or had the bailiffs knocking at the door.

We might end up keeping Mancini because all the other managers we'd like turn us down. If we go whoring ourselves around in desperation word will spread and we'll end up being much worse off than we are now. This is not to say I think Mancini is the greatest manager in the universe but you do need to plan carefully any move as big as sacking him would be.

I am glad I don't have to deal with this.

long term managers are better for clubs, as they can plan for the future. Would taggart have spent £17m on hernandez and smalling if he thought he'd be sacked this year? They were buys for the future, who've only seen games due to injuries and poor form of others. In fairness, both have done extremely well, but I doubt they were expected to perform this year.

Same goes for wenger and his 16 year olds. Why would you bother, if the next manager gets the credit for you finding fabregas?

Taggart is an old school manager, unlikely to be replaced and this is one area I think we're ahead of them. Our manager is now more of a coach. He gets to pick players he wants for his first team, but the longer term buys are done by Marwood. I think we need to work on the medium term buys a bit more i.e. the player who'll be ready for next season, as that seems to be being missed.

Any club would want to get a manager in and stick with him but it isnt going to happen ( in a situation like we have at City) if there is no improvement towards the planned sucess. For me that doesnt automatically mean a higher league position or winning something but at least improvements in the squad of players,playing better football and development as a team.

Of course in time ( how long is the key question) it would become essential for the results to mean going up the league and ultimately having success.The two ( or is it 3) things that bring things to a head quicker are when the manager loses the dressing room and when he loses the fans.It is very very hard for a manager to win through and stay in a job if he loses either or both.Either creates such a pressure it can become close to impossible for owners to retain faith with the manager.

The 3rd thing would be the press/media.As we know when they get their teeth into a manager it just adds fuel to the fire and more often than not brings things to a head even quicker.

I wonder exactly where Mancini is on these fronts?

I'm far too depressed after last night's fiasco to think rationally (if I ever was even equipped to think like that in the first place).....and it's just a knee-jerk type of reaction but, sod Mourinho, I now only want Frank Rijkaard in as manager a.s.a.p.

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:I'm far too depressed after last night's fiasco to think rationally (if I ever was even equipped to think like that in the first place).....and it's just a knee-jerk type of reaction but, sod Mourinho, [highlight]I now only want Frank Rijkaard in as manager a.s.a.p.[/highlight]

Hallelujah !

I want him to stay because as somebody said its cycles well we know our cycle get a manager, get excited, lose a few, moan like fuck, Sack the manager and start over.

however if he does go I don't want a short term fix ie. Jose or hiddink. I would like to see us offer Uwe Rosler the job and tell him baring a major fuck up the job is his for 5 years