Biggest improvement, this season and next

[ant london]

Quick couple of questions for you all.

So, season's nearly done and dusted....who do you think has been our most improved player this season. It's a tricky one actually and is one area where Mancini and team deserve huge credit as there are a number of players who have improved significantly under their management....but who has moved on the most.

This Season
For me quite a few candidates.....De Jong (distribution), Hart (consistently strong, more commanding in the area), Zabaleta (just bloody faced gritty bloody brilliance and exceptional "team player"), Kompany (elevated himself to one of the unquestionable top 2 PL centrehalves by pretty much unanimous consent), Lescott (looked increasingly like the player we thought we had bought from Everton)

For me, however, I have to say that I have been massively impressed with Micah Richards this season. He has come on very impressively, especially considering that in lots of ways (esp in his head) this has needed him to "come back" to the form he first showed when he burst onto the scene. He's looking increasingly mature in both his conduct and play. More disciplined defensively, less jogging back and increasingly good on the ball and dangerous going forward. He's had a great season IMO and he gets my nod.


Next Year
It will be very interesting to see how things move on next season and one of the most exciting factors for me as we sit here as FA Cup winners and having clinched Champions League football next season is the fact that we all know that we have achieved all this with a significant number of players who have underperformed to some degree.

Some are new arrivals who clearly need to get to grips with the PL, some just haven't shown (or consistently shown) what we know they are capable of.

To me the list of candidates are:

James Milner
Adam Johnson
Aleksander Kolarov
Jerome Boateng
Mario Balotelli
Edin Dzeko

For me I'd like to think that Milner can really start to grow into a valuable role here at City. That role, though, has to be the central one where he played to such great effect at Villa. I'd love to see him used alongside (or just in front of) Nigel next season, helping to win ball and drive on. I have a lot of time for Gary Barry but Mancini has doggedly persisted with him (and the inherent lack of pace) whilst shoehorning Milner into that wide role for which he is rather ill-suited.

I think that if deployed appropriately, Milner could be our most improved in lots of ways and in effect like a bonus new player.

Fully expect Edin and Mario to start to come good, they have too much quality and the right stuff for the PL.

Johnson needs to pull his socks up and start to work on his game (delivery as everyone has said but also workrate and effectiveness when we don't have the ball) next year or he can kiss goodbye to ever being a regular starter here.

Jury out on the two full backs, would like to see the improvement but I remain largely unconvinced by both

Anyway, thoughts please?

[CityGer]

I agree with Micah. He's gone from last chance saloon at this time last year to mainstay of the side. He has cut out the rashness and lapses of concentration and is starting to look top quality. I think Bobby deserves some credit here, as Micah as said himself, he has a lot of faith in Micah and it's starting to pay off.

As for next season, tough one. Balo, Dzeko, Milner, Kolarov....no idea who will come through and really establish themselves. Balo showed a level of maturity on Saturday that I didn't think he was capable of so I'll go for him. Dzeko has a fantastic record,though, and must have more to come once settled. The same applies to JB.

Bring it on.

[Sister of fu]

Joe Hart said in the FA Cup programme that Gaz Baz was one of the 1st names on the team sheet so he ain't going anywhere. I agree on Milner, too many have wrote him off, very good player who needs to play central. I'm confident he has a big future with us.

[john@staustell]

Richards is the obvious candidate. He had positional and lifestyle issues when Bobby came. But he really took notice of the advice, most notably on the pitch.

I'm sure we can get more out of that Ibrahimovic fella next season.

Barry is the archetypal 'not appreciated by the fans' player. Neither our fans nor the rest of them. Funny how both Bobby and Capello seem to rate him very highly. Truth is most people are only happy with spectacular players. I'd be surprised if any of our first team squad moves on (except Jo), we are looking to strengthen the squad we have. Tevez different issues of course.

[ant london]

Joe Hart said in the FA Cup programme that Gaz Baz was one of the 1st names on the team sheet so he ain't going anywhere. I agree on Milner, too many have wrote him off, very good player who needs to play central. I'm confident he has a big future with us.

Haaaang on a cotton picking minute. I am not saying for a moment that I don't rate GazBaz....I do and I also like him as a character to have in the squad/team. However, it was clear in several games this season that he didn't have much in his legs and the game passed him by.

In those games, my view is that James Milner could have done GB's job in the team.....with a little more dynamism and pace going forward AND...having bought him that we should probably try to get him bedded down in his actual position rather than sticking his square peg in the round hole of the wing.

Putting him there does not utilise his strengths and emphasises his weaknesses as well as fooling us/Mancini that we have more (useful) options out wide than is actually the case

[Dronny]

For me the biggest improvement has been the form of the back 5, 33 goals conceded from 36 games - only bettered by 1 goal by chelski. We only conceded 2 more than the scum at home yet they have won 5 more than we have, for me next season is all about the attacking side of our game.

Sure the defense and attack are related but we really do need more of the "create something from nothing" type player and I'd be dead keen to see if this Sanchez a) comes to City b) can cut the mustard and be that kind of provider.

Individually I agree with the sentiments about Micah, I think he has come a long way this season and from the soundbites I've heard he lays the credit at Mancini's door. Surely Capello cannot ignore him much longer altho he'll be on duty with the U21's this summer so he may have to wait.

[Mike J]

i dont agree with micah. for the simple reason that i always knew he would come good again. just needed to get his feet planted firmly on the ground.

for me its one of zaba, kompany or lescott.

I gave zaba so much shit last year, i just didnt think he ha anything about him apart from work rate. completely proved me wrong. he is hard as fucking nails, loves the club and had generally improved as an all round player where ever he is put.

Lescott, again i gave him loads of stick. I thought he was absolute dogshit last year. never looked fit and i was unfair because of his insane price tag. This season i think he has been excellent. exactly what vinny needs alongside him, a natural left footer. He has looked really solid apart from the odd lapse. im glad we have him.

Kompany, last season he was excellent but the reason i mention him now is because i think he has improved so much that he is now one of the best centre backs in the world. Absolutely love him and i hope he will be our captain untill the end of his career.

[brite blu sky]

Completely agree with Ants OP. Micah stands out from a bunch of well improved players, be it the framework or the advice Bob deserves credit for that. It also bodes well for the other players and the newer signings. JB, MB and AK had troubled starts to the season while also getting used to the prem, Bob with pre-season too will get the best out of them and i'm expecting improvements there.
I rekon Mancini will also work with Silva to get improvements. Yaya, Milner and AJ too, i would expect to see some development in all those players.

On a side note i still very much believe that Mancini's aim/idea is to have as many players interchangeable as possible. The Cup Final was classic in the sense that we didn't really have an out and out front man; but 5 players who shifted around at will and made space by their movement. In theory any one of those players should be getting in scoring positions and finishing well. I wouldn't say that the finishing has been poor this season but given the amount of chances they have created there is work to be done and still more time needed to be that bit more composed in the box.. decision making has been average imo. That will come.. and with 20% more efficiency our GD would be right up there. This is the icing on the cake but is also the make or break of front players in the top teams. I think at least 4 games would have been finished off by HT if we were more clinical in front of goal. The interchangeability means that team selection is more about who's on form and horses for courses rather than a 1st IX.

Finally Dzeko.. needs time to find his feet and for me the half season will be a bonus when they come to evaluate what he needs in pre-season... so next season he will already know what he is up against and i for one believe he has what is required and will come good during the season.

[Slim]

Joe Hart said in the FA Cup programme that Gaz Baz was one of the 1st names on the team sheet so he ain't going anywhere. I agree on Milner, too many have wrote him off, very good player who needs to play central. I'm confident he has a big future with us.

Barry would be because he rarely has a bad game(Villa being the obvious example), but he rarely has a spectacular game either.

[Kladze]

Joe Hart said in the FA Cup programme that Gaz Baz was one of the 1st names on the team sheet so he ain't going anywhere. I agree on Milner, too many have wrote him off, very good player who needs to play central. I'm confident he has a big future with us.

Barry would be because he rarely has a bad game(Villa being the obvious example), but he rarely has a spectacular game either.

If he could change his first instinct to one of looking to play a forward pass he'd be a true class act.

[Ted Hughes]

Completely agree with Ants OP. Micah stands out from a bunch of well improved players, be it the framework or the advice Bob deserves credit for that. It also bodes well for the other players and the newer signings. JB, MB and AK had troubled starts to the season while also getting used to the prem, Bob with pre-season too will get the best out of them and i'm expecting improvements there.
I rekon Mancini will also work with Silva to get improvements. Yaya, Milner and AJ too, i would expect to see some development in all those players.

On a side note i still very much believe that Mancini's aim/idea is to have as many players interchangeable as possible. The Cup Final was classic in the sense that we didn't really have an out and out front man; but 5 players who shifted around at will and made space by their movement. In theory any one of those players should be getting in scoring positions and finishing well. I wouldn't say that the finishing has been poor this season but given the amount of chances they have created there is work to be done and still more time needed to be that bit more composed in the box.. decision making has been average imo. That will come.. and with 20% more efficiency our GD would be right up there. This is the icing on the cake but is also the make or break of front players in the top teams. I think at least 4 games would have been finished off by HT if we were more clinical in front of goal. The interchangeability means that team selection is more about who's on form and horses for courses rather than a 1st IX.

Finally Dzeko.. needs time to find his feet and for me the half season will be a bonus when they come to evaluate what he needs in pre-season... so next season he will already know what he is up against and i for one believe he has what is required and will come good during the season.

Agree about this interchanging of players. Think Bob tried it too much early doors & it was upsetting the balance but now the players are getting to know each other, it's clear there's great potential for it to work brilliantly in the future. If it comes off, it will be the pinnacle of Prem Lg football. The new signings must fit in quickly to keep it going though.

Micah's return is the biggest bonus of the season to me, he suddenly looks, once again, like the player Spurs were ready to offer 20 mil for but his football intelligence is reaching a level I never ever thought possible. Bob & the coaches deserve huge credit for that.

Dzeko has a lot to do in order to make his mark as he doesn't have the pace or mobility of the others but if he toughens up he can become our 'plan B' player. That requires better service.

Something which really impressed me is the way the defence came back after the Everton mauling, to battle similar situations v Spurs & Stoke. A lot of intelligence was used (not always going for the 1st ball but making sure the player couldn't get a free header thus the danger averted by stopping the 2nd ball). Lescott's contribution shouldn't be underestimated in this. Imo it's the cleverest defending of it kind I've seen for a long time; the opposite of Dunne & Co (chaaaaarge oops missed it).

Next season, imo, it's this kind of traditional. English style football we need to nail, for a Prem Lg challenge. We can obviously get better & better at the continental style, it shouldn't be a problem at all, but both defending & attacking, we need to master the other side of the game for when that doesn't work.

The best Arsenal side, with Vieira & Co, could do that, as half of it was built by George Graham & Don Howe. That's the best ever team this league has seen & the standard we need to aim for a blend of the best of British & continental styles; not the current bunch of fucking tippy tappy, surender monkey, pussies that Wenger is assembling.

[roblues]

Joe Hart said in the FA Cup programme that Gaz Baz was one of the 1st names on the team sheet so he ain't going anywhere. I agree on Milner, too many have wrote him off, very good player who needs to play central. I'm confident he has a big future with us.

Barry would be because he rarely has a bad game(Villa being the obvious example), but he rarely has a spectacular game either.

If he could change his first instinct to one of looking to play a forward pass he'd be a true class act.

I totally agree with this, some of Barry's best games for us have been when he has got forward to support the attack (I remember him advancing down the left flank a lot during Mancini's first game last season and think he got MotM). I feel like Capello knocked the attacking instincts out of him to play a specific role in the England team and he now has to think too much when going forward.

[Ted Hughes]

Joe Hart said in the FA Cup programme that Gaz Baz was one of the 1st names on the team sheet so he ain't going anywhere. I agree on Milner, too many have wrote him off, very good player who needs to play central. I'm confident he has a big future with us.

Barry would be because he rarely has a bad game(Villa being the obvious example), but he rarely has a spectacular game either.

If he could change his first instinct to one of looking to play a forward pass he'd be a true class act.

I totally agree with this, some of Barry's best games for us have been when he has got forward to support the attack (I remember him advancing down the left flank a lot during Mancini's first game last season and think he got MotM). I feel like Capello knocked the attacking instincts out of him to play a specific role in the England team and he now has to think too much when going forward.

He does the dirty work & he does it brilliantly. If he had pace, he'd be amongst the best I've ever seen at that job. He seems reluctant to pass with his right foot which slows down his distribution sometimes but I thought he did it much better v Stoke.

[1950]

Joe Hart said in the FA Cup programme that Gaz Baz was one of the 1st names on the team sheet so he ain't going anywhere. I agree on Milner, too many have wrote him off, very good player who needs to play central. I'm confident he has a big future with us.

Barry would be because he rarely has a bad game(Villa being the obvious example), but he rarely has a spectacular game either.

If he could change his first instinct to one of looking to play a forward pass he'd be a true class act.

I don't think he should. His job's keeping possession, playing simple passes, always being available & in a good position & the odd run down the left or an attacking ball if he sees the gap.

Players like him & Carrick & Busquets don't get the credit, because they're slow or weak, don't score & rarely launch a Charlie Adams Hollywood ball.

Risking possession should not be his first option. Most of the time the full backs will be further up the pitch than him & sometimes de Jong aswell. Lose the ball, get overrun (he's slow remember) & shit hits the fan against a team quick on the counter attack.

[brite blu sky]

Completely agree with Ants OP. Micah stands out from a bunch of well improved players, be it the framework or the advice Bob deserves credit for that. It also bodes well for the other players and the newer signings. JB, MB and AK had troubled starts to the season while also getting used to the prem, Bob with pre-season too will get the best out of them and i'm expecting improvements there.
I rekon Mancini will also work with Silva to get improvements. Yaya, Milner and AJ too, i would expect to see some development in all those players.

On a side note i still very much believe that Mancini's aim/idea is to have as many players interchangeable as possible. The Cup Final was classic in the sense that we didn't really have an out and out front man; but 5 players who shifted around at will and made space by their movement. In theory any one of those players should be getting in scoring positions and finishing well. I wouldn't say that the finishing has been poor this season but given the amount of chances they have created there is work to be done and still more time needed to be that bit more composed in the box.. decision making has been average imo. That will come.. and with 20% more efficiency our GD would be right up there. This is the icing on the cake but is also the make or break of front players in the top teams. I think at least 4 games would have been finished off by HT if we were more clinical in front of goal. The interchangeability means that team selection is more about who's on form and horses for courses rather than a 1st IX.

Finally Dzeko.. needs time to find his feet and for me the half season will be a bonus when they come to evaluate what he needs in pre-season... so next season he will already know what he is up against and i for one believe he has what is required and will come good during the season.

Next season, imo, it's this kind of traditional. English style football we need to nail, for a Prem Lg challenge. We can obviously get better & better at the continental style, it shouldn't be a problem at all, but both defending & attacking, we need to master the other side of the game for when that doesn't work.

The best Arsenal side, with Vieira & Co, could do that, as half of it was built by George Graham & Don Howe. That's the best ever team this league has seen & the standard we need to aim for a blend of the best of British & continental styles; not the current bunch of fucking tippy tappy, surender monkey, pussies that Wenger is assembling.

I'd be happy to wait over a season more for this team to develop into one of the best prem sides ever.. the ingredients are there and with the right tweaks and plenty of playing time it will come good. The blend of power and finesse in the players does need to be replicated in the playing styles as well.. and I'd say not as a plan A and B but more intergrated than that.. ie. both at the same time. Tippy tappy and an interchanging front line keeps even the best defences guessing, throw in changing style of play at will and we would be adding further big dilemnas on teams and managers.
imo the fusion of a barca style mesmerising control with english style directness could be a brilliant Euro dominating formulae. Very difficult to achieve i would think due to contrasting concepts but not impossible and the best training ground for that is the english Prem, obviously.
So more practice in crossing and heading please Bob when you've got the tippy tappy basics sorted.

I'd give Mancini 2 years to beat Barca with something along those lines and mostly the same team as now.

[Ted Hughes]

Completely agree with Ants OP. Micah stands out from a bunch of well improved players, be it the framework or the advice Bob deserves credit for that. It also bodes well for the other players and the newer signings. JB, MB and AK had troubled starts to the season while also getting used to the prem, Bob with pre-season too will get the best out of them and i'm expecting improvements there.
I rekon Mancini will also work with Silva to get improvements. Yaya, Milner and AJ too, i would expect to see some development in all those players.

On a side note i still very much believe that Mancini's aim/idea is to have as many players interchangeable as possible. The Cup Final was classic in the sense that we didn't really have an out and out front man; but 5 players who shifted around at will and made space by their movement. In theory any one of those players should be getting in scoring positions and finishing well. I wouldn't say that the finishing has been poor this season but given the amount of chances they have created there is work to be done and still more time needed to be that bit more composed in the box.. decision making has been average imo. That will come.. and with 20% more efficiency our GD would be right up there. This is the icing on the cake but is also the make or break of front players in the top teams. I think at least 4 games would have been finished off by HT if we were more clinical in front of goal. The interchangeability means that team selection is more about who's on form and horses for courses rather than a 1st IX.

Finally Dzeko.. needs time to find his feet and for me the half season will be a bonus when they come to evaluate what he needs in pre-season... so next season he will already know what he is up against and i for one believe he has what is required and will come good during the season.

Next season, imo, it's this kind of traditional. English style football we need to nail, for a Prem Lg challenge. We can obviously get better & better at the continental style, it shouldn't be a problem at all, but both defending & attacking, we need to master the other side of the game for when that doesn't work.

The best Arsenal side, with Vieira & Co, could do that, as half of it was built by George Graham & Don Howe. That's the best ever team this league has seen & the standard we need to aim for a blend of the best of British & continental styles; not the current bunch of fucking tippy tappy, surender monkey, pussies that Wenger is assembling.

I'd be happy to wait over a season more for this team to develop into one of the best prem sides ever.. the ingredients are there and with the right tweaks and plenty of playing time it will come good. The blend of power and finesse in the players does need to be replicated in the playing styles as well.. and I'd say not as a plan A and B but more intergrated than that.. ie. both at the same time. Tippy tappy and an interchanging front line keeps even the best defences guessing, throw in changing style of play at will and we would be adding further big dilemnas on teams and managers.
imo the fusion of a barca style mesmerising control with english style directness could be a brilliant Euro dominating formulae. Very difficult to achieve i would think due to contrasting concepts but not impossible and the best training ground for that is the english Prem, obviously.
So more practice in crossing and heading please Bob when you've got the tippy tappy basics sorted.

I'd give Mancini 2 years to beat Barca with something along those lines and mostly the same team as now.

In the last few games we've started to mix it up a bit with some more direct play & also to play the tippy tappy stuff quicker at times. We've occasionally looked for the ball over the top (like the one for Balo resulting in Silva's miss Sat) & also knocking the ball onto the chest of a striker for a lay off & 1st time shot on the edge of the box. Also it was encouraging to see Milner really hammer in a near post cross 2nd half which Tevez almost got on the end of. To top it all, 2 headers from set plays, both from decent balls & ending in decent efforts, one a goal.

I recon, getting this stuff right gets us between 10 & 20 extra goals next season & imo puts us right in with an even chance of winning the league.

[brite blu sky]

You're right and it has been noticeable tbh. Not before time eh! Still a ways to go, but it all has a feel of it is all about practice and time together. What is fantastic about this team and these players is that you can see a whole load of space for improvement.. eg. with headers from set pieces; that would pay dividends if addressed. With only one season for all of them together and some of them out a lot, which during the season was read as making excuses, now looks like the free space to move up into that allows improvement. It isn't rocket science either, just getting better at simple stuff and getting better at understanding each other.

With the time to reflect at the end of the season and the pre.season addressing areas to improve; it is going to be very interesting watching them come out of the blocks in August.

[Wooders]

this season
Completely agree with you Ant

Next season

Balla, Dzeko, Johnno, the football that is being played in general can improve imo - we were the neutrals nightmare in a lot of games this season, would like to see us take more advantage of the flair we have at our disposal

[Original Dub]

Mancini. We went from playing shite, defensive football, winning nothing and not qualifying for the champion's league to this year to partially playing shite, defensive football, winning the FA Cup and probably finishing 3rd.

Next year I'm hoping its Mancini again - that we play to win every game like the scum do and that we at least battle to the last couple of weeks for the title and quarters of the champs league minimum.

I also think if Silva gets the hang of how to score regularly he could be Prem POTY. That would be a major improvement.

[dazby]

Bear with me on this. I'd love us to recruit Sam Allardyce to the coaching staff.

His brief? Set pieces. He can be our set piece coach. We know that he's good at it and I have no doubt it would get us more goals and help us concede less.

Who's with me?