Mancini's Ability To Change The Game Using Subs (aka Plan B)

[King Kev]

I think one of the marks of a good manager is the ability, and bravery, to change a game when things aren't going as planned.

Roberto has been accused of being this season of being 'inept' and of having no 'Plan B' - so I decided to see if the facts back up or disprove this.

Personally I think his tactics and formations have been spot on for the vast majority of gaes this season.

As for substitutons, we have scored 20 goals this season that have come within 10 minutes of substitution being made.



I reckon this is a pretty good recored. Well done Bobby!

[Ted Hughes]

With our squad, that's bound to happen.

I think he's improved & done well on the whole recently in most games but was unacceptably beyond useless in many others earlier, & did actually fuck up with Vieira in the recent Everton game.

5 out of 10 over the season for me.

[Ted Hughes]

Have a look at the quality of teams those substitutions have worked against too.

[Ted Hughes]

Have a look at the quality of teams those substitutions have worked against too.

Actually that's fucing abysmal. I'll turn my 5 out of 10 into a 3.

[King Kev]

Have a look at the quality of teams those substitutions have worked against too.

It depends on what you mean by worked I suppose. We scored a goal within 3 minutes of making a substitution against the team that went on to win the league.

[Lee_R]

3rd in the league and won the FA Cup... says it all.

Mancinis tactic this season was scrape wins try not to lose and keep it tight. This gave the team time to learn and gel then ultimately play together... It worked and towards the end of the season we took it all by the throat.

The season was a success. Mancinis tactics were spot on. 'Time to pick the fruit from the tree'.

I really cant wait for next season!

[Ted Hughes]

Have a look at the quality of teams those substitutions have worked against too.

It depends on what you mean by worked I suppose. We scored a goal within 3 minutes of making a substitution against the team that went on to win the league.

With our squad, we should be bringing on players who score goals all the time.

Most substitutions I think people would agree, happen in the 2nd half of games. This is how the top half of the table would look if only the 2nd halves had been played:

Second Half PL Table

1 Chelsea P38 W18 D14 L6 F38 A14 GD + 24 PTS68
2 Arsenal P 38 W17 D14 L7 F38 A25 GD +13 PTS65
3 Fulham P38 W16 D16 L6 F30 A16 GD +14 PTS64
4 MUnited P38 W15 D18 L5 F44 A24 GD +20 PTS 63
5 M City P38 W14 D17 L7 F27 A19 GD +8 PTS 59
6 WBA P38 W14 D13 L11 F37 A35 GD +2 PTS 55
7 Stoke P38 W13 D15 L10 F30 A21 GD +9 PTS 54
8 Everton P38 W12 D18 L 8 F28 A22 GD +6 PTS 54
9 Lpool P38 W13 D13 L12 F33 A29 GD +4 PTS 52
10Spurs P38 W10 D21 L 7 F29 A20 GD +9 PTS51

So.... 'cough' .... Fulham, are a better 2nd half team & all those teams, including WBA, Stoke & Everton have scored more goals as did Bolton & Newcastle, with Blackpool equalling us. Pretty dreadfully piss poor considering our squad imo & suggests that the 2nd half problems at Blackburn & Everton are worthy of thought for next season. Bob still has plenty of work to do both on the team & on his own decision making 2nd half imo, particularly on when to make changes.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I would be interested to know how many of those substitutions actually changed the game as the title says.In the ones I remember we were already winning the game when the subs were made so they hardly changed the game did they?

Maybe you should be writing for the papers KK :) Using stats to prove what you want them to is what they usually do for negative reasons.

[MaineRoadMemories]

I think most of us who have posted in annoyance this season has come the fact we do not come from behind to win a match. When we concede the players heads seem to drop and Mancini hasn't picked them up. It's a soft underbelly that needs toughening up in pre-season.

Also this season, too many times against the top 7 teams in the league, we played a good first half but a poor second half when the opposition changed tactics but we didn't.

We sort out our mentality and start winning games when our plan a hasn't worked then the world is there for our team to conquer :-D

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I think most of us who have posted in annoyance this season has come the fact we do not come from behind to win a match. When we concede the players heads seem to drop and Mancini hasn't picked them up. It's a soft underbelly that needs toughening up in pre-season.

Also this season, too many times against the top 7 teams in the league, we played a good first half but a poor second half when the opposition changed tactics but we didn't.

We sort out our mentality and start winning games when our plan a hasn't worked then the world is there for our team to conquer :-D

3rd and FA Cup wasn't quite good enough then?

[Lev Bronstein]

Have a look at the quality of teams those substitutions have worked against too.

It depends on what you mean by worked I suppose. We scored a goal within 3 minutes of making a substitution against the team that went on to win the league.

With our squad, we should be bringing on players who score goals all the time.

Most substitutions I think people would agree, happen in the 2nd half of games. This is how the top half of the table would look if only the 2nd halves had been played:

Second Half PL Table

1 Chelsea P38 W18 D14 L6 F38 A14 GD + 24 PTS68
2 Arsenal P 38 W17 D14 L7 F38 A25 GD +13 PTS65
3 Fulham P38 W16 D16 L6 F30 A16 GD +14 PTS64
4 MUnited P38 W15 D18 L5 F44 A24 GD +20 PTS 63
5 M City P38 W14 D17 L7 F27 A19 GD +8 PTS 59
6 WBA P38 W14 D13 L11 F37 A35 GD +2 PTS 55
7 Stoke P38 W13 D15 L10 F30 A21 GD +9 PTS 54
8 Everton P38 W12 D18 L 8 F28 A22 GD +6 PTS 54
9 Lpool P38 W13 D13 L12 F33 A29 GD +4 PTS 52
10Spurs P38 W10 D21 L 7 F29 A20 GD +9 PTS51

So.... 'cough' .... Fulham, are a better 2nd half team & all those teams, including WBA, Stoke & Everton have scored more goals as did Bolton & Newcastle, with Blackpool equalling us. Pretty dreadfully piss poor considering our squad imo & suggests that the 2nd half problems at Blackburn & Everton are worthy of thought for next season. Bob still has plenty of work to do both on the team & on his own decision making 2nd half imo, particularly on when to make changes.

I'm not too sure what tables like this prove, they only tell part of the story. Eg Fulham away, 3-0 up at half-time finished 4-1, so only a second half draw. Newcastle away, 2-0 up at half time, finished 3-1; another second half draw. There must be other examples, I just can't think of them at the mo.

It's a cliche I know but football's a game of two halves.

[BlueinBosnia]

As for substitutons, we have scored 20 goals this season that have come within 10 minutes of substitution being made.

Actually, that's statistically a pretty poor record if you think about it. You can make up to three substitutions during a match, allowing a total potential 30-minute timeframe for goals to be scored in during a match to count towards this stat. That's a third of a game. As we scored about 90 goals in all competitions, we should (theoretically speaking) expect a return of around 35+ goals from the time period after substitutions to claim that it has a positive effect on games.

So, actually, one could use your statement to show that Mancini's substitution tactics and decisions result in us being less likely to score.

[CTID Hants]

I think most of us who have posted in annoyance this season has come the fact we do not come from behind to win a match. When we concede the players heads seem to drop and Mancini hasn't picked them up. It's a soft underbelly that needs toughening up in pre-season.

Also this season, too many times against the top 7 teams in the league, we played a good first half but a poor second half when the opposition changed tactics but we didn't.

We sort out our mentality and start winning games when our plan a hasn't worked then the world is there for our team to conquer :-D

3rd and FA Cup wasn't quite good enough then?

NDQP, as I read through this thread I was thinking that was Bobby ManC's first full season AND I am happy with it too. Sorry KK I think you are being too over analytical, although I do kind of get where you are coming from. I am sure I have read you saying it is a work in progress?

[wyted]

With our squad, we should be bringing on players who score goals all the time.

I'm interested to hear which players within our squad you think are capable of scoring goals all the time but are not good enough to be included in the first choice 11?

[Ted Hughes]

With our squad, we should be bringing on players who score goals all the time.

I'm interested to hear which players within our squad you think are capable of scoring goals all the time but are not good enough to be included in the first choice 11?

The point of spending 300 mil quid on a squad of fucking players, is that you are able to change the game when you bring on substitutes no matter who starts! Surely ?

P.S. some people in this thread are starting to take legitimate criticism of mistakes & identification of areas where we can improve, as some kind of unreasonable comment. Stop being fucking losers. We had a good season, a wonderful time, we could possibly have had an even better one & we HAVE TO do that next season.

If our manager is resting & tossing himself off over how wonderful he's been, he'll be fucking gone by Christmas. I'm confident enough from what I've seen in Bob, that he's looking at those very problems & developing a plan to fix them, rather than pretend they didn't happen, like a fucking Russian president.

[getdressedmctavish]

Well said, ted. keep it up. i cant stand these coonts who think thought is some form of treachery. They are in the wrong country, in the wrong millenium, supportin the wrong team. They should fuck off back to their madrassas or start goose stepping.

[wyted]

With our squad, we should be bringing on players who score goals all the time.

I'm interested to hear which players within our squad you think are capable of scoring goals all the time but are not good enough to be included in the first choice 11?

The point of spending 300 mil quid on a squad of fucking players, is that you are able to change the game when you bring on substitutes no matter who starts! Surely ?

Sorry, I forgot we had no injuries this season and Bob had a full strength squad to pick from every game.

You're talking bags of shite here. Explaining how we finished 5th on second half performances without mentioning that we were 2nd on first half performances 2nd only to the champions with only Scum and Arse scoring more goals (+1 only I might add).

This season has seen us improve in one major area, getting points from the bottom half of the table. We topped that table didn't you know and look at the success it has led to, 3rd in the league and Champs League Footie next season!

What we need to do now is learn how to come back when we go behind as last season we only managed to gain 4 points from matches where we went behind and I believe we showed the fighting spirit to do that towards the end of last season. If we'd manage it in games such as Wolves or Villa away, we would of been clear 2nd. We also need to figure out how to beat Everton, another 6 points a season. Now we're real title contenders and the season comes down to how we perform against the other big 5 teams.

I thought we would enjoy a summer of good feeling and excitement for next season and that Bobby Manc had earned himself some slack, but sadly you've proven I was wrong.

[Slim]

I think one of the marks of a good manager is the ability, and bravery, to change a game when things aren't going as planned.

Roberto has been accused of being this season of being 'inept' and of having no 'Plan B' - so I decided to see if the facts back up or disprove this.

Personally I think his tactics and formations have been spot on for the vast majority of gaes this season.

As for substitutons, we have scored 20 goals this season that have come within 10 minutes of substitution being made.



I reckon this is a pretty good recored. Well done Bobby!

Is this just for games where there was a goal scored after the substitution? Or have you removed games where we were already winning and making a sub just added to the total? And the season is 50+ games long, you have 16 games there, are you also ignoring the games where subs were made and the score didn't change? And how many games would have had the outcome altered out of those games hadn't we scored after a substitution?

Your data is incomplete at best, intentionally misleading and biased at worst.

[dazby]

I'm sure that the attacks on our second half performances are neglecting the number of matches where we had built the lead in the first half. There are a lot of second half draws. I bet in many of them we were sitting on a lead.

[Ted Hughes]

With our squad, we should be bringing on players who score goals all the time.

I'm interested to hear which players within our squad you think are capable of scoring goals all the time but are not good enough to be included in the first choice 11?

The point of spending 300 mil quid on a squad of fucking players, is that you are able to change the game when you bring on substitutes no matter who starts! Surely ?

Sorry, I forgot we had no injuries this season and Bob had a full strength squad to pick from every game.

You're talking bags of shite here. Explaining how we finished 5th on second half performances without mentioning that we were 2nd on first half performances 2nd only to the champions with only Scum and Arse scoring more goals (+1 only I might add).

This season has seen us improve in one major area, getting points from the bottom half of the table. We topped that table didn't you know and look at the success it has led to, 3rd in the league and Champs League Footie next season!

What we need to do now is learn how to come back when we go behind as last season we only managed to gain 4 points from matches where we went behind and I believe we showed the fighting spirit to do that towards the end of last season. If we'd manage it in games such as Wolves or Villa away, we would of been clear 2nd. We also need to figure out how to beat Everton, another 6 points a season. Now we're real title contenders and the season comes down to how we perform against the other big 5 teams.

I thought we would enjoy a summer of good feeling and excitement for next season and that Bobby Manc had earned himself some slack, but sadly you've proven I was wrong.

This is just absolutely, utterly fucking pathetic. How many pat on the back, basking in glory threads do we fucking need ?? Jesus, Christ, we've been at it for two weeks are we not allowed to discuss anything other than how wonderful we are ?

In case you didn't notice; I didn't start a thread slagging off Bob's management, in fact on another thread, I'm praising him for being ahead of Ferguson at the same point in their careers. I replied to some stats which were claiming he'd done really well in an area which I thought he did badly & needs to improve. Looking into it more deeply, has made me realise it was worse than I thought, & so needs to improve more. I strongly disagree with the premise that he did well, on the whole, with his substiutions & I think that our 2nd half performances could often have been better. I am saying so, on a forum for football discussion. Perhaps what you're looking for, is a communal wanking forum ?