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If we're going to have a decent standard backup keeper, do we not need to let him actually play some games?

Is it really that crucial for a keeper to play every single game? I asked this question re Shay last season. Just because it's how things are done; is it neccessarily how things have to be done? Is it impossible to have two keepers who actually play?

They train exactly the same way so can they not operate the same way with the back 4, as the back 4 have to do when they are changed over?

Perhaps S.O.F. could give some insight on this?

My answer to this is that it is crucial for a goalkeeper and his back four to develop an understanding with each other. They need to be confident of each other's ability and in what each will do in any given circumstance. It is often said that a back 4 should be settled and this is the reason. The 6 yard box is not the place for indecision or being unsure if your goalie will take you out at any given moment.

That is the reason why you need the same goalie and (as far as possible) the same back line for as much as possible.

It could be argued that if you used two goalies they could both develop the same understanding but because no two keepers are the same, it will be more difficult for the defenders to instinctively know what the keeper is going to do.

It is unlikely that an injury will keep a goalie out for any length of time so the risk of this happening is not high enough to warrant risking what may happen due to having an inconsistent relationship with the keeper.

Also, you want your best keeper there all the time if possible. It would be very difficult to have two world class keepers on the same squad and have them sharing duties due to the fact that they could both get twice as much front line action elsewhere.

I think last season we needed to play Joe as much as possible to gel with the back 4 and to gain confidence, chopping and changing would of done more harm last season.

This season is a bit different as Joe has a good relationship with back 4 and is now our undisputed number 1. We need to sign a good standard back up, give him the carling cup guaranteed and any "easy" fa cup(or champs league should we be qualified by gw4) games, with the wages id imagine we would pay we should have the pick of the back up keepers. Someone mentioned kirkland recently he would be ideal as he can only play a few matches a season, also Sorenson both local and happy to be second choice, we may have missed the boat with Westwood who wouldve been decent too.

Dubciteh wrote:
Someone mentioned kirkland recently he would be ideal as he can only play a few matches a season

Kirkland is an embarrassment these days. Wigan fan at work doesn't even want him as back-up. The guy is useless at commanding his box and is about as fragile as RSC!

For me goalie is the most important player on the pitch.
Other people besides your strikers can win you matches its nearly always goalies that save you.
For me the backup keeper is just that and we should get someone who will be happy in that role and happy on the bench.
I think Joe should play as often as he can.

When you have the best Goalie in the Prem why would you want to leave him on the bench? Our back up goalie should be someone who is at the end of their career and willing to help with the coaching as they will not get in to our team for a very long time

sweenyuk wrote:When you have the best Goalie in the Prem why would you want to leave him on the bench? Our back up goalie should be someone who is at the end of their career and willing to help with the coaching as they will not get in to our team for a very long time

Unless of course Hart breaks his leg in which case our whole season hangs on this back up keeper.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

sweenyuk wrote:When you have the best Goalie in the Prem why would you want to leave him on the bench? Our back up goalie should be someone who is at the end of their career and willing to help with the coaching as they will not get in to our team for a very long time

Unless of course Hart breaks his leg in which case our whole season hangs on this back up keeper.

How many keepers in the EPL can you name who have had a broken leg?
I take your point that Joe may get a bad injury but I think that is a risk we have to take.
None of the big clubs have a world class No.2 so its a bit dreamland to think we can.

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

sweenyuk wrote:When you have the best Goalie in the Prem why would you want to leave him on the bench? Our back up goalie should be someone who is at the end of their career and willing to help with the coaching as they will not get in to our team for a very long time

Unless of course Hart breaks his leg in which case our whole season hangs on this back up keeper.

How many keepers in the EPL can you name who have had a broken leg?
I take your point that Joe may get a bad injury but I think that is a risk we have to take.
None of the big clubs have a world class No.2 so its a bit dreamland to think we can.

With all our money do we need to take risks?

And the rags have had kuscsack who is no world beater but a solid premier league keeper which is what we need in reserve! Even spurs have a quality back up keeper, in fact id nearly go as far and say ours is one of the worse. Compare to Doni, Turnbull/hilario, Almunia, Kuzscak/lindeergaard, Friedal, and so on, wigan and stoke even have better number twos than us.

When there is so much riding on our season we shouldnt take unnecessary risks...

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

sweenyuk wrote:When you have the best Goalie in the Prem why would you want to leave him on the bench? Our back up goalie should be someone who is at the end of their career and willing to help with the coaching as they will not get in to our team for a very long time

Unless of course Hart breaks his leg in which case our whole season hangs on this back up keeper.

How many keepers in the EPL can you name who have had a broken leg?
I take your point that Joe may get a bad injury but I think that is a risk we have to take.
None of the big clubs have a world class No.2 so its a bit dreamland to think we can.

How about above mentioned Chris Kirkland? Or what about our very own Gunnar Nielsen?

It can happen as easy as this.

http://vodpod.com/watch/2621115-french- ... eg-in-half

Point was about having bad injury though. Broken skull, broken wrist (veneral bone), serious neck injury, snapped achilles tendon whatever.

There's a good chance he can start every single game for us next season. If I were Mancini, I'd want good insurance though. Stuart Taylor is like American health insurance at this stage.

I wish you hadn't put a link to that-I'm having my lunch.
I see what you mean about injuries though but I don't think we are going to be able to get someone to be understudy to Joe without having to accept someone who is nowhere near the standard of Joe.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

sweenyuk wrote:When you have the best Goalie in the Prem why would you want to leave him on the bench? Our back up goalie should be someone who is at the end of their career and willing to help with the coaching as they will not get in to our team for a very long time

Unless of course Hart breaks his leg in which case our whole season hangs on this back up keeper.

How many keepers in the EPL can you name who have had a broken leg?
I take your point that Joe may get a bad injury but I think that is a risk we have to take.
None of the big clubs have a world class No.2 so its a bit dreamland to think we can.

How about above mentioned Chris Kirkland? Or what about our very own Gunnar Nielsen?

It can happen as easy as this.

http://vodpod.com/watch/2621115-french- ... eg-in-half

Point was about having bad injury though. Broken skull, broken wrist (veneral bone), serious neck injury, snapped achilles tendon whatever.

There's a good chance he can start every single game for us next season. If I were Mancini, I'd want good insurance though. [highlight]Stuart Taylor is like American health insurance at this stage[/highlight].

Here we go again, what the fuck does that mean? Because if I take it literally you have just called Stuart Taylor dependable and quality, because that is how my health insurance is.

Florida Blue wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

sweenyuk wrote:When you have the best Goalie in the Prem why would you want to leave him on the bench? Our back up goalie should be someone who is at the end of their career and willing to help with the coaching as they will not get in to our team for a very long time

Unless of course Hart breaks his leg in which case our whole season hangs on this back up keeper.

How many keepers in the EPL can you name who have had a broken leg?
I take your point that Joe may get a bad injury but I think that is a risk we have to take.
None of the big clubs have a world class No.2 so its a bit dreamland to think we can.

How about above mentioned Chris Kirkland? Or what about our very own Gunnar Nielsen?

It can happen as easy as this.

http://vodpod.com/watch/2621115-french- ... eg-in-half

Point was about having bad injury though. Broken skull, broken wrist (veneral bone), serious neck injury, snapped achilles tendon whatever.

There's a good chance he can start every single game for us next season. If I were Mancini, I'd want good insurance though. [highlight]Stuart Taylor is like American health insurance at this stage[/highlight].

Here we go again, what the fuck does that mean? Because if I take it literally you have just called Stuart Taylor dependable and quality, because that is how my health insurance is.

NHS would've been a better comparison.

Looks good on paper, absolute pap in reality. Often gets the simplest thing wrong. Turns a small problem into a much bigger one... ect ect.

Florida Blue wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

Rag_hater wrote:

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

sweenyuk wrote:When you have the best Goalie in the Prem why would you want to leave him on the bench? Our back up goalie should be someone who is at the end of their career and willing to help with the coaching as they will not get in to our team for a very long time

Unless of course Hart breaks his leg in which case our whole season hangs on this back up keeper.

How many keepers in the EPL can you name who have had a broken leg?
I take your point that Joe may get a bad injury but I think that is a risk we have to take.
None of the big clubs have a world class No.2 so its a bit dreamland to think we can.

How about above mentioned Chris Kirkland? Or what about our very own Gunnar Nielsen?

It can happen as easy as this.

http://vodpod.com/watch/2621115-french- ... eg-in-half

Point was about having bad injury though. Broken skull, broken wrist (veneral bone), serious neck injury, snapped achilles tendon whatever.

There's a good chance he can start every single game for us next season. If I were Mancini, I'd want good insurance though. [highlight]Stuart Taylor is like American health insurance at this stage[/highlight].

Here we go again, what the fuck does that mean? Because if I take it literally you have just called Stuart Taylor dependable and quality, because that is how my health insurance is.

It means about 20% of Americans don't have health insurance. That's roughly the amount of games Stuart Taylor would cost us alone. About 25% of Americans have some sort of partial health insurance meaning they are not covered in all cases. That's roughly the amount of game where Stuart Taylor would make bad errors that may or may not cost us games. About 55% of Americans are fully covered and that's roughly the amount of games where Stuart taylor would be debendable or even quality.

That's what the fuck that means.

If Hart plays 60 games then we don't have a problem but if he gets injured on or off the pitch, as NQDP says, we get Taylor. Bob says it's crucial to have two top players for each spot yet the key position of keeper only has one, strange?

But what top keeper will sit on his arse all season? Catch 22. Which brings us back to my original question.

Trying to type on a phone is hard work, even sat with a cold beer on a beautiful Norwegian balcony but it's much harder when a bird shits on your fucking head. Bastard.

we definitely need a back up keeper to play carling cup games and easy fa cup games to give Joe a break. he cant play all the games in all the competitions.

ive heard rumblings about us looking at Bolton #1 Jaaskelienen (or whatever his name is) now that is contract talks have broken down. Sorenson, as mentioned, would great as well.
also heard that West Brom are looking to sign Kirkland as their #2....

It is essential we get someone in, they don't need to be world class, just experienced and dependable as No.2.
Fulop did well when we borrowed him, but I think he's first choice at Ipswich or wherever, so maybe that's a non starter.

phips wrote:we definitely need a back up keeper to play carling cup games and easy fa cup games to give Joe a break. he cant play all the games in all the competitions.

ive heard rumblings about us looking at Bolton #1 Jaaskelienen (or whatever his name is) now that is contract talks have broken down. Sorenson, as mentioned, would great as well.
also heard that West Brom are looking to sign Kirkland as their #2....

No way Bolton are letting Jussi go on the eve of the season considering they just sold Al Habsi.

I'd say we should try one of Kirkland, Sorensen or Gordon. Experienced and mostly solid keepers who might actually agree to sit on our bench.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:

phips wrote:we definitely need a back up keeper to play carling cup games and easy fa cup games to give Joe a break. he cant play all the games in all the competitions.

ive heard rumblings about us looking at Bolton #1 Jaaskelienen (or whatever his name is) now that is contract talks have broken down. Sorenson, as mentioned, would great as well.
also heard that West Brom are looking to sign Kirkland as their #2....

No way Bolton are letting Jussi go on the eve of the season considering they just sold Al Habsi.

I'd say we should try one of Kirkland, Sorensen or Gordon. Experienced and mostly solid keepers who might actually agree to sit on our bench.

Sorensen is the one, no doubt.

Niall Quinns Discopants wrote:It means about 20% of Americans don't have health insurance. That's roughly the amount of games Stuart Taylor would cost us alone. About 25% of Americans have some sort of partial health insurance meaning they are not covered in all cases. That's roughly the amount of game where Stuart Taylor would make bad errors that may or may not cost us games. About 55% of Americans are fully covered and that's roughly the amount of games where Stuart taylor would be debendable or even quality.

That's what the fuck that means.

So what you're actually saying is that he's nothing at all like American health insurance