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Just listening on the BBC that someone has appealed against being prosecuted by sky for using a Greek decoder system to watch perm games.

The court have upheld the appeal so it is now legal to buy foreign kit to watch perm games

Not sure if it will have a huge impact, I just love Sky being shafted

Found the whole story now....


4 October 2011 Last updated at 08:19 GMT Share this pageFacebookTwitterEmailPrint
Pub can use foreign decoder for Premier League games
 

Karen Murphy on why she took her fight to Europe, speaking to 5 live in October 2010Continue reading the main story
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A pub landlady has won the latest stage of her fight to air Premier League games using a foreign TV decoder.

Karen Murphy had to pay nearly £8,000 in fines and costs for using a cheaper Greek decoder in her Portsmouth pub to bypass controls over match screening.

But she took her case to the European Court of Justice.

The ECJ now says national laws which prohibit the import, sale or use of foreign decoder cards are contrary to the freedom to provide services.

It said national legislation, which banned the use of overseas decoders, could not "be justified either in light of the objective of protecting intellectual property rights or by the objective of encouraging the public to attend football stadiums".

A spokesman for Mrs Murphy said she was "overwhelmed with relief" and looking forward to getting the case back to the High Court.

The ECJ findings will now go to the High Court in London, which had sent the matter to the ECJ for guidance, for a final ruling.

'Contingency plans'
The decision could trigger a major shake-up for the Premier League and its current exclusive agreements with Sky Sports and ESPN.

"In practical terms, the Premier League will now have to decide how it wishes to re-tender its rights," said sports media lawyer Daniel Geey of Field Fisher Waterhouse solicitors.

"There can be little doubt it will have contingency plans ready to go and has various options available.

"Be it a pan-EU tender, selling in only certain EU member states or devising a plan to start its own channel, they will be deciding how best to maximise the value of their product to ensure any revenue shortfall is minimised."

However, the ECJ did add that while live matches were not protected by copyright, any surrounding media, such as any opening video sequence, the Premier League anthem, pre-recorded films showing highlights of recent Premier League matches and various graphics, were "works" protected by copyright.

To use any of these parts of a broadcast, a pub would need the permission of the Premier League.

'Major blow'
"On the face of it, it looks like a blow for the Premier League and... broadcasters Sky and ESPN," said BBC sports editor David Bond.

"It seems on the face of it, the Premier League and Sky have been dealt a major blow today."

He said the Premier League had faced many regulatory challenges in the past and would find ways to get round the new situation.

He also said that it could have significant repercussions for other rights holders outside of sport, with life potentially getting more difficult for the film industry.

Satellite signals
The legal battle kicked off six years ago, when Ms Murphy was taken to court for using the Nova firm to show matches at the Red, White and Blue pub.

Using the Greek service, she had paid £118 a month, rather than £480 a month with the official broadcaster.

Licensed broadcasters encrypt satellite signals, with subscribers needing a decoder card to access them.

Ms Murphy took advantage of an offer to UK pubs to use imported cards.

In February, an ECJ advocate general said this was in line with the aims of the EU single market - a border-free zone for goods and services.

The Premier League has already taken action against two suppliers of foreign satellite equipment and a group of pub landlords who used imported decoding equipment to show English Premier League games and avoided the commercial premises subscription fees for Sky.

Heard about this, but I don't understand the details, do you still need to subscribe to sky? Or can you just use your current sky dish, plug in the Greek decoder, and hey presto, all the channels for no cost??

Crossie wrote:Heard about this, but I don't understand the details, do you still need to subscribe to sky? Or can you just use your current sky dish, plug in the Greek decoder, and hey presto, all the channels for no cost??

That's what I understand

You probably have to subscribe to the foreign channel though..... At least you would be saving the euro instead of supporting the evil Murdoch empire

Crossie wrote:Heard about this, but I don't understand the details, do you still need to subscribe to sky? Or can you just use your current sky dish, plug in the Greek decoder, and hey presto, all the channels for no cost??

Not sure about this- think you need a different box/bigger or re-directed satellite.

As far as I was aware, it's always been legal to use a foreign decoder for personal use, just not for commercial enterprises like pubs, which this case is about. The woman is paying about 120 quid a month, not 500, by using the Greek decoder.

Patrick wrote:

Crossie wrote:Heard about this, but I don't understand the details, do you still need to subscribe to sky? Or can you just use your current sky dish, plug in the Greek decoder, and hey presto, all the channels for no cost??

That's what I understand

You probably have to subscribe to the foreign channel though..... At least you would be saving the euro instead of supporting the evil Murdoch empire

you need a dish that's pointing at the satellite that's pumping out the greek content... your sky one won't be suitable. this ruling therefore really only affects pubs/clubs etc who are charged £1000s by sky.... joe public will still subscribe to sky...

Edit

This and similar cases have been going on for a while - whilst it all sounds great there are possible dire consequences for football in England

All(most) clubs get themselves into hock to get to the sacred land of the PL and then spend more to stay there - because of the riches that come from the Sky deal. Why have Sky chosen to pay so much? - it is simply because of the monopoly they have had on the provision of the product in the UK and wider distribution rights.

Football has underpinned the Sky package to domestic customers - how will this change if UK people can get the sport from an alternative source - same for commercial customers (e.g. pubs) - Sky's revenues might plummet.

This may seem a good thing but what will be the knock-on implications to the deal they have with the PL when they come to renegotiate in a couple of years???

I reckon they could offer half the price and there would still be no credible competition. In turn what would be the knock-on implications to the clubs that have become so dependent on the revenue.

There are all sorts of scenarios - including some 'big' clubs deciding to break from the collective bargain - e.g. the scum

Things could unravel possibly quite dramatically - another reason to think - thank fuck we have the Sheik

mcfc1632 wrote:This and similar cases have been going on for a while -

whilst it all sounds great there is a possible dire consequence for football in England

All(most) clubs get themselves into hock to get to the sacred land of the PL and then spend more to stay there - because of the riches that come from the Sky deal. Why have Sky chosen to pay so much? because of the monopoly they have had on the provision of the product in the UK and wider distribution rights.

Football has underpinned the Sky package to domestic customers - how will this change if UK people can get the sport from an alternative source - same for commercial customers (e.g. pubs) - Sky's revenues might plummet.

This may seem a good thing but what will be the knock-on implications to the deal they have with the PL when they come to renegotiate in a couple of years???

I reckon they could offer half the price and there would still be no credible competition. In turn what would be the knock-on implications to the clubs that have become so dependent on the revenue.

There are all sorts of scenarios - including some 'big' clubs deciding to break from the collective bargain - e.g. the scum

Things could unravel possibly quite dramatically

The only people have REALLY benefited from Sky have been the players who have been paid huge wages because the clubs can due to Sky's income.

If the income from Sky is dramatically reduced then all that will happen is that the players salaries will be negotiated lower.

daveh1962 wrote:

mcfc1632 wrote:This and similar cases have been going on for a while -

whilst it all sounds great there is a possible dire consequence for football in England

All(most) clubs get themselves into hock to get to the sacred land of the PL and then spend more to stay there - because of the riches that come from the Sky deal. Why have Sky chosen to pay so much? because of the monopoly they have had on the provision of the product in the UK and wider distribution rights.

Football has underpinned the Sky package to domestic customers - how will this change if UK people can get the sport from an alternative source - same for commercial customers (e.g. pubs) - Sky's revenues might plummet.

This may seem a good thing but what will be the knock-on implications to the deal they have with the PL when they come to renegotiate in a couple of years???

I reckon they could offer half the price and there would still be no credible competition. In turn what would be the knock-on implications to the clubs that have become so dependent on the revenue.

There are all sorts of scenarios - including some 'big' clubs deciding to break from the collective bargain - e.g. the scum

Things could unravel possibly quite dramatically

The only people have REALLY benefited from Sky have been the players who have been paid huge wages because the clubs can due to Sky's income.

If the income from Sky is dramatically reduced then all that will happen is that the players salaries will be negotiated lower.

Possibly - and I hope you re right - but I seriously doubt it.

It would more likely mean:

a) that the pimps push the top players to Italy/Spain/elsewhere

b) so the top English clubs maintain the salaries to attract them but other clubs cannot so the gap becomes wider and we end up wit a league similar to other countries - e.g. a top 2 or 3 and then the rest

c) that the entire deal is renegoiated to ensure that the top clubs get a bigger share - end of the collective bargaining and possibly

d) that it hastens in a european league for which the television rights are negotiated by the 'old guard europen elite'

This should make the FFP rules a bit more interesting .... without Sky money we will still be able to pay our players <snigger>

Final point in all of this- technically, the High Court could ignore the European Court's ruling, and side with Sky. After all, there's big money involved with this for the UK.

This is all over the place at the moment so I wouldn't make any assumptions here. There are hundreds of different scenarios but the one that stands out for me is that, as far as this country goes, it may be that nothing has changed after all.

It states that the graphics are copywrite of the Premier League & can only be used with the consent of the Pl. Whenever I see PL games on foreign channels, they almost always have the PL graphics on the broadcast. If those channels were to block the graphics, the PL may refuse to sell them the games, so therefore, if you show the game without permission you are infinging on the copywrite of the PL.

What this does definitely open up is the possibility of Murdoch selling the PL directly to the public Europwide without using foreign broadcasters. My hypothetical plan of the Sheikh becoming involved in television broadcasts of our games & possibly a Euro super league & the gradual loss of Platini's power base could also have come a little closer.

I don't think the lawyers have even sussed this yet, though I bet SKY/ESPN are in a better position now than they were before.

BlueinBosnia wrote:Final point in all of this- technically, the High Court could ignore the European Court's ruling, and side with Sky. After all, there's big money involved with this for the UK.

I agree that this is correct but I do not think that it will be the outcome in this case. The reason is that this is not a case of 'escalation' to the ECJ because a plaintiff was unhappy about a HC judgement - this was actually referred to the RCJ by the HC (I think) for guidance - which they have now received

mcfc1632 wrote:

BlueinBosnia wrote:Final point in all of this- technically, the High Court could ignore the European Court's ruling, and side with Sky. After all, there's big money involved with this for the UK.

I agree that this is correct but I do not think that it will be the outcome in this case. The reason is that this is not a case of 'escalation' to the ECJ because a plaintiff was unhappy about a HC judgement - this was actually referred to the RCJ by the HC (I think) for guidance - which they have now received

You're right it was, but they're not obliged to follow the ECJ's ruling as far as I know.

BlueinBosnia wrote:

mcfc1632 wrote:

BlueinBosnia wrote:Final point in all of this- technically, the High Court could ignore the European Court's ruling, and side with Sky. After all, there's big money involved with this for the UK.

I agree that this is correct but I do not think that it will be the outcome in this case. The reason is that this is not a case of 'escalation' to the ECJ because a plaintiff was unhappy about a HC judgement - this was actually referred to the RCJ by the HC (I think) for guidance - which they have now received

You're right it was, but they're not obliged to follow the ECJ's ruling as far as I know.

It may be preferable to Sky & the Prem if they do.

No smoking, No pets, But a big fuck off satalite decoder is allowed. Health and Saftey will have a field day, someone will lose an eye or worse, spill me pint.

So, you can use a big decoder to watch a foreign channel but can you use a computer to watch the same channel on a stream?

I am sure there is some devil in the detail but what are the implications for streaming footie on the web that may come out of this?

this can only be great news as sky will have to do something to their pricing now too.

everyonehatesus wrote:this can only be great news as sky will have to do something to their pricing now too.

They may be able to put it up if they take over the whole broadcasting of PL football for the whole of Europe, which this, in theory, allows them to do.