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The poppy row, about a friendly international between two independent countries, brings into focus many issues emerging over the last few years, and I would ask:

Why does a friendly football match between two nations require FIFA at all? Why cant the two secretaries ring each other up and then arrange a ref?

Why do we need some monumentally greedy and corrupt multi-national entity to even organise a world cup? Get some retired administrator from a bank to do it to keep him occupied in his retirement.

I think it's time for the nations and the clubs to withdraw from FIFA and UEFA and start again from the roots. Just have a tiny staff representing the interests of members, NOT THEMSELVES.

Bin FIFA and UEFA.

It's a catch 22; if you try to bin FIFA you will be punished by FIFA & banned from playing against the very teams you seek to play.

It would need a huge number of people to walk out simultaneously & another organisation put in place to replace them almost simultaneously. It's not impossible but very very difficult to organise. Money would be the key.

The poppy thing was embarrassing for England. Such a ridiculous over the top reaction.

twosips wrote:The poppy thing was embarrassing for England. Such a ridiculous over the top reaction.

No pal, what is embarrassing is that they had to go to the lengths that they did. It shouldn't even have been a question, it should've been a given.

Beefymcfc wrote:

twosips wrote:The poppy thing was embarrassing for England. Such a ridiculous over the top reaction.

No pal, what is embarrassing is that they had to go to the lengths that they did. It shouldn't even have been a question, it should've been a given.

It's no business of FIFA what we do in our own country for a friendly match. It is down to whether or not Spain agree to it, & if they have no problem with it, FIFA should keep their fucking noses out.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Beefymcfc wrote:

twosips wrote:The poppy thing was embarrassing for England. Such a ridiculous over the top reaction.

No pal, what is embarrassing is that they had to go to the lengths that they did. It shouldn't even have been a question, it should've been a given.

It's no business of FIFA what we do in our own country for a friendly match. It is down to whether or not Spain agree to it, & if they have no problem with it, FIFA should keep their fucking noses out.

I think teams need to have FIFA authorisation for friendlies which count towards rankings. Not sure about that, mind, so maybe someone can check the rulebook...

Before getting rid of them, we would have to answer the question of how would you stop a replacement organisation becoming just like them.

BlueinBosnia wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Beefymcfc wrote:

twosips wrote:The poppy thing was embarrassing for England. Such a ridiculous over the top reaction.

No pal, what is embarrassing is that they had to go to the lengths that they did. It shouldn't even have been a question, it should've been a given.

It's no business of FIFA what we do in our own country for a friendly match. It is down to whether or not Spain agree to it, & if they have no problem with it, FIFA should keep their fucking noses out.

I think teams need to have FIFA authorisation for friendlies which count towards rankings. Not sure about that, mind, so maybe someone can check the rulebook...

Oh of course that's true but I'm just referring to the fact that there is absolutely no need for them to interfere in this kind of situation. They have given themselves powers they don't really need & should only intervene if there is a real cause to do so.

brite blu sky wrote:Before getting rid of them, we would have to answer the question of how would you stop a replacement organisation becoming just like them.

Another organization WILL happen in the future imo, and when it does, the powers will be given to the clubs and not some fuckign brown envelope receiving old FARTS who know fuckall about football ( Sepp Blatter )

I want this to happen so badly.

FIFA, Rankings & International Football zzzzz, uefa would be viable if they got rid of the cheese eating surrender monkey the G14 and simply just organised club tournaments

carl_feedthegoat wrote:

brite blu sky wrote:Before getting rid of them, we would have to answer the question of how would you stop a replacement organisation becoming just like them.

Another organization WILL happen in the future imo, and when it does, the powers will be given to the clubs and not some fuckign brown envelope receiving old FARTS who know fuckall about football ( Sepp Blatter )

I want this to happen so badly.

second that. Football needs to learn though too. So no closed doors, no closed deals. total transparency in everthing. No one allowed to dominate the system.. ie fixed terms of office no second terms and simple mechanisms to get rid of them and generally change things.

Otherwise getting rid would just be a quick fix to make us all feel better, and nothing to stop it sinking back into what it is now.

That said I'd vote for getting rid now and let the clubs work out the replacement later.

I'm sorry but it's bollocks.

FIFA are a joke, corrupt, and don't seem to know about football and what fans want.

The Poppy Saga though, FIFA and England were abiding by the rules.
Any changes to kits must be sanctioned. However international football can not be used as a political tool, or the players to carry a political message.

In England the poppy appeal is a well known tradition and is there to raise money for those soldiers injured or the families of those killed.
The poppy appeal usually coincides with Remembrance Sunday and Remembrance day which marks armistice day, the day the first world war ended and the ceasefire signed. People often confuse the two as one.

Recently England has been involved in some very controversial wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) and the poppy appeal (rightly so) helps those who serve in these wars, and also those who served in Northern Ireland.

When the FA submitted the request, FIFA rejected it basing their decision on the current rules and it could be seen as a political tool.
As an Englishman, I completely disagree with the rejection. I wear a poppy every year and donate to help for heroes as well, but take a step back, what if China wanted to wear something to honour the soldiers who went into Tibet? What if Iraq players wanted to commemorate the soldiers killed when they invaded Kuwait, or those fallen in the gulf war?
What about Israel and Palestine? Can FIFA allow their players to wear something to remember the fallen in this conflict?

To us it seems innocent, unfortunately, in this balled up politically correct world, you have to have blanket rules to cover all as it's difficult where to draw the line.

frozen_pea wrote:I'm sorry but it's bollocks.

FIFA are a joke, corrupt, and don't seem to know about football and what fans want.

The Poppy Saga though, FIFA and England were abiding by the rules.
Any changes to kits must be sanctioned. However international football can not be used as a political tool, or the players to carry a political message.

In England the poppy appeal is a well known tradition and is there to raise money for those soldiers injured or the families of those killed.
The poppy appeal usually coincides with Remembrance Sunday and Remembrance day which marks armistice day, the day the first world war ended and the ceasefire signed. People often confuse the two as one.

Recently England has been involved in some very controversial wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) and the poppy appeal (rightly so) helps those who serve in these wars, and also those who served in Northern Ireland.

When the FA submitted the request, FIFA rejected it basing their decision on the current rules and it could be seen as a political tool.
As an Englishman, I completely disagree with the rejection. I wear a poppy every year and donate to help for heroes as well, but take a step back, what if China wanted to wear something to honour the soldiers who went into Tibet? What if Iraq players wanted to commemorate the soldiers killed when they invaded Kuwait, or those fallen in the gulf war?
What about Israel and Palestine? Can FIFA allow their players to wear something to remember the fallen in this conflict?

To us it seems innocent, unfortunately, in this balled up politically correct world, you have to have blanket rules to cover all as it's difficult where to draw the line.

No other war can be compared to the first or even the second world wars, as we liberated ALL OF EUROPE from Hitler ect....its that simple.
If it wasn't for them brave soldiers then some of us wouldn't be here today so the Poppy stance is different from any other imo.

carl_feedthegoat wrote:No other war can be compared to the first or even the second world wars, as we liberated ALL OF EUROPE from Hitler ect....its that simple.
If it wasn't for them brave soldiers then some of us wouldn't be here today so the Poppy stance is different from any other imo.

Was afraid the post would be TL;DR

The poppy appeal is for service men and women who are injured, and families for those who have died.
This is not just the first and second world wars. It was created after the first world was and does ramp up close to armistice day / remembrance day.

The poppy appeal helps current soldiers and their families as well as those from wars in the past.

Agreed, not just the money raised, but our fallen soldiers deserve so much respect also, i know it's different times, but i could imagine how those boy's were Sh****g it but still went. I dont think the youth of today would've been so brave, and i wouldn't like to think what i've have felt like! ( i'm 41) They went to war with so little training but knew that they had to, to protect their families and loved ones!

35 times since WW2 has England played a fixture around this time. This is the first time you've sought to wear a poppy. Why? What's different this time that's made it sooooo important? The comments and furore I've read and listened to have been...well... Embarrassing. Could it be that this issue has been brewed in an attempt to deflect criticism from an accused racist captain? I say yes. And you've been duped.

Just a foreigners perspective. Take it with a dash of salt.

brite blu sky wrote:Before getting rid of them, we would have to answer the question of how would you stop a replacement organisation becoming just like them.

Yes a bit like the Emperor trying to turn Luke into Darth Vader by destroying him full of hatred! Even so it may take some consdiderable years (about 100) to get to the same point so if we scrap them now it at least gives us time enough for us!!!

As for the poppy business I dont know why it was even requested of FIFA - bollox to them. Just turn out with poppies on shirts, end of...

frozen_pea wrote:

carl_feedthegoat wrote:No other war can be compared to the first or even the second world wars, as we liberated ALL OF EUROPE from Hitler ect....its that simple.
If it wasn't for them brave soldiers then some of us wouldn't be here today so the Poppy stance is different from any other imo.

Was afraid the post would be TL;DR

The poppy appeal is for service men and women who are injured, and families for those who have died.
This is not just the first and second world wars. It was created after the first world was and does ramp up close to armistice day / remembrance day.

The poppy appeal helps current soldiers and their families as well as those from wars in the past.

The armed services are not political - the politicians are. The armed services have no say (other than operational) about who they fight. It's worth saying again, the armed services are not political.

Regardless of what the monies raised from the poppy appeal are used for, the fact is that FIFA objected to it on the grounds that if England players were allowed to DISPLAY a poppy on their shirt versus Spain then a precedent would have been set. So that, at some future date, should we have a friendly lined up against the Germans at this time of year then the Germans might be upset and object.

Now then forget the money raised issues. I was always of the belief (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Poppy is used as a SYMBOL to represent ALL of the dead of the two major wars - both allied AND German.

Sandro Rosell becomes the second big club boss to threaten a breakaway. The writing is on the wall Mr Platini. You do not call the shots anymore.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... tions.html

FIFA and UEFA should pay players' wages during international tournaments, according to Barcelona president Sandro Rosell.

The Catalan giants provide the majority of the Spain team and Rosell wants does not reckon his club should be paying for the privilege.

The proposal was one of several suggested by Rosell at a conference in Doha - the Barca chief also wants to cut the number of teams in the top European Leagues and expand the Champions League.

He also warned UEFA that the major clubs could break away if certain demands were not met.

On the payment of players during World Cups and European Championships, he said: 'This is what we are discussing with both institutions (for the governing bodies to pay).
'That could happen in the near future because we don't think it's fair that we pay the salaries and they use our players and they get income using our players. This is something that has to be treated very seriously.

'We hope they will hear what we want to tell them.'

Like the Premier League, La Liga in Spain and Italy's Serie A have 20 teams but Rosell said: 'The objective of reducing from 20 to 16 teams is to give more space to our players.

'Then once the dates are liberated, these dates are not for the (national) federations. The dates are for the clubs to organise friendly games or to increase the European competitions.'

Rosell said UEFA needs to address calls by the European Club Association (ECA) for a bigger Champions League to create more revenue.

'We want to have the Champions League under the umbrella of UEFA, but we also want UEFA to hear our demands, what the European Club Association is asking,' he said.

'We are asking for more revenue. We are asking for governance, transparency, insurance.

'We would like to have a Champions League with more teams. That means, one day we can play a Barcelona v Manchester United Champions League game on Saturday or Sunday.'

Premier League teams have fiercely resisted previous attempts to cut numbers but Rosell said the lure of an enlarged Champions League could be decisive.

'We have to convince the Premier League to reduce to 16 teams as well,' he said.

UEFA's agreement with the ECA expires in 2014 and Rosell warned the clubs could go it alone unless the governing body accepts the demands.

'If not then ECA is entitled to organise their own champions competition by themselves,' he said.

Rosell said the ECA's current memorandum of understanding with UEFA was valid until 2014, with a new agreement under discussion.

'If this (a new MoU) doesn't happen, then the worst case scenario is that we will go away from UEFA.'