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I have to say our performances in the Champions League compared to those in the Premiership really have been night and day. Of course Rome was not built in a day but we have Champions League winners in our side not to mention a manager and several players with previous CL experience.

One small crumb of comfort for us is the comparative struggles of our fellow domestic club sides. United have a shockingly poor group but will likely finish second and have failed to beat Benfica over two games and shipped in an amazing three goals at home to a Swiss side. Chelsea also are struggling and face a do or die tie against Valencia and on current form I would put my house on them joining us in the Europa league.

The Europa league tells a similar story with only Stoke really looking like they will make it through.

Gone are the days when three English clubs looked a good bet for the Semi’s and all four were expected to get to the quarter finals minimum. From a neutrals point of view the group stages of the CL are normally incredibly predictable.

I put the English side’s slump in Europe down to two things, nations like Italy have awoken from their own slump and German football is rapidly improving which I do not think any real football fan has any qualms with. The other explanation is the down turn in quality in the Premiership. Ridiculous hockey like score lines have become common and out with the top eight teams there are very few decent sides that would cope in the Spanish or Italian league. We have beaten the likes of Blackburn, Wolves, Newcastle without even having to get out of second gear. We can play terribly at QPR and still win. Long gone is the myth that every team can take points off each other in the Premiership. Napoli are a decent Italian side but not one of the top guns but have shown us up on two separate occasions. Bayern are the real deal and cleaned the floor with us.

So is our poor form in the Champions League down to playing in a league that offers us very few competitive games?

Overseas posters who are not subjected to 'the greatest league in the world' propaganda machine are especially welcome.

Mate; this is ridiculous. Spurs beat Inter & AC Milan LAST SEASON. The rags were in the final LAST SEASON.

The English side's slump is down to one thing only; the 'big 3' are in a state of flux & we are new to the game. If the rags qualify, you'll be praying for somebody to stop them & your prayers may take a while coming to fruition.

This really is reactionary stuff at it's finest.

Arsenal, United and Chelsea will all qualify for the knock out stages.

"The Europa league tells a similar story with only Stoke really looking like they will make it through."

You're aware that two teams go through from each group and both Fulham and Birmingham sit second in their groups with Spurs level on points with second and two very easy games to play right? Because I don't think you are.

This is just one season where English clubs haven't dominated the CL so far.

On top of this the Spanish and Italian leagues are arguably at their weakest for some time. Real and Barca are always guaranteed to go through but third spot in Spain is wide open - Villareal and Valencia are average sides now and we're all waiting on the rise of Malaga. Serie A has just lost its fourth CL spot through performing so badly in the past 5 years - don't just take your results from this season.

The one thing that has been refreshing this year is seeing more sides from outside the big four countries go through - APOEL, Ajax,Trabzonspor, Marseilles, Porto, Basel etc all qualified or on the verge.

There is no English slump, so taking about big scoring games being the decline is irrelevant.

It's worked out better than expected for us regarding our rivals as we always expected a hard battle in the CL which would give them an advatage by being rested for the Prem whilst we were busy. They've both fucked up & spunked that advantage away.

Imagine if they don't make it though ? The last stages of the Europa could involve City, Utd, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, Stoke & Birmigham, kicking shit out of each other on Thursday nights. What a fucking nightmare that could turn out to be.

Ted Hughes wrote:It's worked out better than expected for us regarding our rivals as we always expected a hard battle in the CL which would give them an advatage by being rested for the Prem whilst we were busy. They've both fucked up & spunked that advantage away.

Imagine if they don't make it though ? The last stages of the Europa could involve City, Utd, Spurs, Chelsea, Fulham, Stoke & Birmigham, kicking shit out of each other on Thursday nights. What a fucking nightmare that could turn out to be.

Imagine Stoke would win in a fight with any side.

They'd get beat 5-0 3 days after through.

Ross in negative post about England shocker.

You're getting worse, Ross. So predictable. Get some new stuff mate. You spend more time talking about England on here than you do City.

There's very little basis to this, it's knee jerk and far too early for your point to hold any weight. I know it's tough to contain due to your scottish wee man syndrome but just hang fire on the 'fall of English football' stuff for a while.

We've had a tougher group than any of the other English teams - all it reveals is our lack of experience & poor form of rags & chelski - look at arsenal, been in chumps league year after year & now they are finding form in the league, they are cruising their group.

We've learnt a lot this year, like we did last year & we're heading in the right direction, to suggest others leagues are improving is a little too early to judge.

Also Ross, on this point

out with the top eight teams there are very few decent sides that would cope in the Spanish or Italian league

Have you seen much of Lecce, Granada, Cesena, Novara and Sociedad recently? They are gash. They play in front of three men and a dog and can barely pay their players. I dont know how you've come to the conclusion that the lesser teams in the PL are worse than the lesser teams in Spain, Italy and Germany but I think you're talking bollocks.

CityGer wrote:Ross in negative post about England shocker.

CityGer in disagreement...shocker.

I'd agree the Prem teams have not exactly set the world alight in the CL this year, but to call it the Prem in decline is a bit knee jerk given English teams prominence in this competiton over the past decade.

As for strength in depth, the difference between the Prem and La Liga for example is that when Real or Barca play a bum team from the bottom reaches, it invariably ends up in a 6 or 7 nil tonking. In the Prem, even the bum teams often play competitive games against the top 4, and sometimes spring a surprise and nick a point here and there.

Someone's been hitting the Buckfast this morning...

Apologies for my pedantry but it hasn't been called the 'Premiership' since 2007.

I've nothing more to add.

Slim wrote:

CityGer wrote:Ross in negative post about England shocker.

CityGer in disagreement...shocker.

Slim in sticking up for Ross shocker.

I like this game.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Apologies for my pedantry but it hasn't been called the 'Premiership' since 2007.

I've nothing more to add.

Fellow pedant here, gets me every time. Amazing how many journos still call it the Premiership rather than the Premier League.

This spurious argument was used after the Champions League results as a convenient stick to beat ourselves and Chelsea with. It was noticeable that the lacklustre United were given their usual easy ride by the press again, despite being in a far easier group than ourselves and still struggling. Chelsea are having a hard time domestically at the moment, so their defeat is hardly indicative of declining standards or a general malaise in our league, while City have coupled poor finishing with what looks like teething troubles.

Look at the players who are now playing in the Premier League who weren't here a year or two ago (our own David Silva and Sergio Aguero to name but two) and who has left (Cesc Fabregas being just about the only one of note), and the PL looks at least as strong as it ever has. Because of City, the bar has been raised significantly, and the likes of United, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool will have to make further improvements (probably via high-end imports) just to compete. With so much competition going on in England's top five or six, it's a far healthier state of affairs than in Spain, for example, where it's a foregone certainty that the top two clubs will be the same every single year.

By the way, the only time I can ever recall English clubs struggling in Europe was in the 1990s after lengthy bans for our teams. Our league atrophied, but after a few years of struggle we began to dominate again. One round of mixed results in the Champions League doesn't prove anything. Italian clubs struggled for years but are still there now.

Goaters 103 wrote:I'd agree the Prem teams have not exactly set the world alight in the CL this year, but to call it the Prem in decline is a bit knee jerk given English teams prominence in this competiton over the past decade.

As for strength in depth, the difference between the Prem and La Liga for example is that when Real or Barca play a bum team from the bottom reaches, it invariably ends up in a 6 or 7 nil tonking. In the Prem, even the bum teams often play competitive games against the top 4, and sometimes spring a surprise and nick a point here and there.

Unless Sunderland and Steve Bruce Blames are involved.

hyper wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Apologies for my pedantry but it hasn't been called the 'Premiership' since 2007.

I've nothing more to add.

Fellow pedant here, gets me every time. Amazing how many journos still call it the Premiership rather than the Premier League.

epl

Nigels Tackle wrote:

hyper wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Apologies for my pedantry but it hasn't been called the 'Premiership' since 2007.

I've nothing more to add.

Fellow pedant here, gets me every time. Amazing how many journos still call it the Premiership rather than the Premier League.

epl

That winds me up too.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
That winds me up too.

surely it should be the British Premier League now the sheep botherers have joined in? Or does that only happen once the Scots join? Saying that, it'd be back to EPL the following season when they're all in the Championship



Sits back to wait and see who bites first...

EPL or "English Premier League" is acceptable if you are living outside England and Wales as it helps with identification. The only reason La Liga, the Bundesliga and Serie A are used intact is because they are very specifically named - there are a number of Premier Leagues round the world.