Page 1 of 2

Don't let me down

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:24 pm
by guv111
I'd forgotten what a shitty feeling it was when City lose a match, and not because of any negativity I personally feel or that I've read on MCF. It's the old irritation and annoyance of seeing the usual tossers in the media with their skewed biases going into overdrive, and the bloggers who chip in with their ridiculous comments about chickens coming home to roost over Tevez, blah blah blah. Maybe it's actually better if you live in or near Manchester with a supporting network of City mates, but when you don't and your overriding experience of City is by way of the media it can be a lonely road to tread. Sunday has now taken on an increasing significance for me, and I'm desperate for a City win just to restore some equilibrium.

Please please me, City. Let it be three more points.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:26 pm
by Ted Hughes
I don't mind losing so much provided we turn up & do our best. I don't think that was the case at either Bayern or Napoli & both games actually reminded me of Anfield last year, as others have said.

If we lose then do so as a proper team, not as a shambles.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:33 pm
by brite blu sky
Surely there is no reason to think that the Napoli level of performance will continue in the league. I think it is possible the last few games have been a bit flatter QPR.. less so Toon. But generally so far we have upped our game when necessary - apart from in the CL. There has to be something to that and I'm sure it will stay confined to the CL too.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:12 pm
by Florida Blue
brite blu sky wrote:Surely there is no reason to think that the Napoli level of performance will continue in the league. I think it is possible the last few games have been a bit flatter QPR.. less so Toon. But generally so far we have upped our game when necessary - apart from in the CL. There has to be something to that and I'm sure it will stay confined to the CL too.



This, I totally agree with. Mancini got it wrong for Napoli, his starting XI and the timing of the subs was horrible, but more than not he has been spot on, and I look at each game individually as we have not had any pattern of a poor run of form beyond a single match here and there.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:05 am
by vulcan
Just watched the derby again- feeling much better!

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:32 am
by Douglas Higginbottom
vulcan wrote:Just watched the derby again- feeling much better!



haha always a good therapy. I will be very interested in Sunday's game in who gets selected and also how Liverpool decide to play the game plus of course over riding everything the result.

European football is different and the good sides often I think are capable of playing the waiting game,allowing City to have the ball and ppush forward but being able to break quickly when they get the chance.I would expect Liverpool and other prem sides to adopt something similar and the key question will be are they good enough to keep City out as well as break at us in the way Napoli did on 2 occasions.

Although Carroll caused us real problems last year I hope he starts on Sunday as that's one less player in the middle of the park and we should be able to handle him.Last year's game I hope and expect was a one off.We will take our game to them and create chances and as long as we score goals we can definitely win.My worry is that soon we will have a prem game where the ball just doesnt go in the net and we lose.I hope it isnt Sunday as we don't want back to back losses.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:09 am
by dazlebluefrog
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:
vulcan wrote:Just watched the derby again- feeling much better!



haha always a good therapy. I will be very interested in Sunday's game in who gets selected and also how Liverpool decide to play the game plus of course over riding everything the result.

European football is different and the good sides often I think are capable of playing the waiting game,allowing City to have the ball and ppush forward but being able to break quickly when they get the chance.I would expect Liverpool and other prem sides to adopt something similar and the key question will be are they good enough to keep City out as well as break at us in the way Napoli did on 2 occasions.

Although Carroll caused us real problems last year I hope he starts on Sunday as that's one less player in the middle of the park and we should be able to handle him.Last year's game I hope and expect was a one off.We will take our game to them and create chances and as long as we score goals we can definitely win.My worry is that soon we will have a prem game where the ball just doesnt go in the net and we lose.I hope it isnt Sunday as we don't want back to back losses.


doug even if the ball doesn't finish in the net a 0-0 could be a good result there,they do seem to "up" their game against the "big 4"

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:07 am
by guv111
My concern is our too-often leaky defence and the capacity of a couple of our players to make stupid defensive blunders. I don't think this is the sort of match for de Jong the way he has been playing this season, and I definitely don't want to see Adam Johnson starting. If Barry is fit, then let's get him back in with Yaya and Milner, and if Nasri plays I'd like to see him being truly influential for a change as we can't expect Silva to create everything. It goes without saying that Balotelli and Aguero deserve to start ahead of Dzeko. If a back four of Richards, Kompany, Lescott and Clichy is named my optimism will will significantly improve.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:15 am
by Blue Since 76
dazlebluefrog wrote:
doug even if the ball doesn't finish in the net a 0-0 could be a good result there,they do seem to "up" their game against the "big 4"


Told the scouser at work that they'd probably beat us as they raise their games against the big teams. Wonder if he's calmed down yet?

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:12 pm
by brite blu sky
There are two main problems with City that keep re-occuring imo. One is putting enough effort in. The other is similar, certain players not doing the basics of their job.. and I'm looking squarely at Yaya for that. I know some have been going on about it, but I just can't get over the dereliction of duty that he has shown. It would be better if he didn't bother drifting back at all, that way at least the other players would know for sure that he wasn't going to cover or challenge a player 5 yds away and they could then at least decide themselves to organise and do something. The worse part of it is that he looks like he is thinking about putting in a challenge and then doesn't.. it is worse than not being in the vicinity at all.
So that needs sorting out because a fair few goals have led directly from the confusion he has helped create. We lost 2pts at Fulham for no other reason than lack of just 5yds of effort to put some kind of pressure on someone waltzing along with the ball.

While that continues the defence will be left in the lurch of being in the wrong positions at times right in front of goal, scrambling to cover and inevietably cheap goals will be conceeded.
There are two solutions, one dont play Yaya in a deep role. tother is tell the rest of the players to completely ignore what Yaya is doing if it is on our side of the halfway line!

The passing game requires as a fundamental basic a lot of movement off the ball, there is a basic level of effort that you cannot go below or it all stop working. In the Prem that hasn't happened for more than a few minutes at a time, if it does we will look like we did in Naples.

City's system means that we can cope with even quite a few players not at their best, but the two points I'm making above are of our own making and can be cut out. We would be imo less inclined to conceed the kind of gifted goals we have done. Doesn't seem like a big ask to me... not like expecting players to suddenly become a lot better or anything. Just do the basics and keep moving for 90 mins.

That said, I'm convinced that Mancini will have set out that going to anfield and getting a result is a marker for the season and the effort will be there. If it is the Scoucers wont be able to live with it however much they manage to up their game.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:36 pm
by Ted Hughes
brite blu sky wrote:There are two main problems with City that keep re-occuring imo. One is putting enough effort in. The other is similar, certain players not doing the basics of their job.. and I'm looking squarely at Yaya for that. I know some have been going on about it, but I just can't get over the dereliction of duty that he has shown. It would be better if he didn't bother drifting back at all, that way at least the other players would know for sure that he wasn't going to cover or challenge a player 5 yds away and they could then at least decide themselves to organise and do something. The worse part of it is that he looks like he is thinking about putting in a challenge and then doesn't.. it is worse than not being in the vicinity at all.
So that needs sorting out because a fair few goals have led directly from the confusion he has helped create. We lost 2pts at Fulham for no other reason than lack of just 5yds of effort to put some kind of pressure on someone waltzing along with the ball.

While that continues the defence will be left in the lurch of being in the wrong positions at times right in front of goal, scrambling to cover and inevietably cheap goals will be conceeded.
There are two solutions, one dont play Yaya in a deep role. tother is tell the rest of the players to completely ignore what Yaya is doing if it is on our side of the halfway line!

The passing game requires as a fundamental basic a lot of movement off the ball, there is a basic level of effort that you cannot go below or it all stop working. In the Prem that hasn't happened for more than a few minutes at a time, if it does we will look like we did in Naples.

City's system means that we can cope with even quite a few players not at their best, but the two points I'm making above are of our own making and can be cut out. We would be imo less inclined to conceed the kind of gifted goals we have done. Doesn't seem like a big ask to me... not like expecting players to suddenly become a lot better or anything. Just do the basics and keep moving for 90 mins.

That said, I'm convinced that Mancini will have set out that going to anfield and getting a result is a marker for the season and the effort will be there. If it is the Scoucers wont be able to live with it however much they manage to up their game.


I agree entirely about Yaya & it gets worse when he has to play games midweek without a rest. He should be played in a kind of free role & never relied upon to do anything, & I do mean ANYTHING. That goes for set pieces too. His total lack of awareness for the 1st goal v Napoli has been mirrored many times for goals conceded at set pieces where he fails to block a man who ends up getting a free run & jump, or just doesn't even compete for a header & basically lets the bloke score.

It's easy to see why Bob gives him these jobs; because he could do them easily. The problem is he won't. He doesn't have it in him to give that bit extra in most games. When he's a bit tired he just goes 'ah bollox to it' & has a rest. He jogs, he doesn't pick up & he doesn't get off the ground for headers. Sometimes he still keeps running but it's so slow & lacking in effort that he's actually getting his breath back whilst he's running. If you watch him, he's just jogging in little circles, totally not even thinking about getting involved in the play.

This is when he's dangerous to the oppo on a break, as he can suddely sprint away if he pushes himself, but it's also when he's very very dangerous to us, as players think he's picking up runners or marking a space but he's not, he's just having a rest.

The workrate of the whole team & the tactical awareness has seemed lacking in Europe though. None of the team closed down Napoli as well as they did Newcastle. I watched the Geordies v Stoke & they are real grafters. We out-grafted them when we lost the ball but were not at the races in the same situation v Napoli or Bayern. I don't know why that is.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:53 pm
by brite blu sky
Ted Hughes wrote:
This is when he's dangerous to the oppo on a break, as he can suddely sprint away if he pushes himself, but it's also when he's very very dangerous to us, as players think he's picking up runners or marking a space but he's not, he's just having a rest.



This is the crux of it, absolutely the crux. If players were not counting on him they would see the game accordingly and organise themselves as if he were not there. What he keeps doing is diabolical as he is mind fucking his own team.
Bob has to have seen this, has to.

As for the CL effort.. like you and everyone else I'm mystified. if pushed I'd just say anxiety.. too much thinking.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:07 pm
by s1ty m
guv111 wrote:My concern is our too-often leaky defence and the capacity of a couple of our players to make stupid defensive blunders. I don't think this is the sort of match for de Jong the way he has been playing this season, and I definitely don't want to see Adam Johnson starting. If Barry is fit, then let's get him back in with Yaya and Milner, and if Nasri plays I'd like to see him being truly influential for a change as we can't expect Silva to create everything. It goes without saying that Balotelli and Aguero deserve to start ahead of Dzeko. If a back four of Richards, Kompany, Lescott and Clichy is named my optimism will will significantly improve.


If that is not our defence tomorrow, I'll be amazed. If he picks that fucking idiot Kolarov, we're mightily fucked.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:21 pm
by brite blu sky
So even more incentive now to get stuck in tomorrow.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:06 am
by PALUS
Now City,show today, those 1 0 lucky rags to have no chance this year.Going to 7 pts. clear.
O hapy day

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:06 am
by vulcan
s1ty m wrote:
If that is not our defence tomorrow, I'll be amazed. If he picks that fucking idiot Kolarov, we're mightily fucked.


This. Richards and Clichy are a must instead of Kolarov and Zabaleta IMO.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:34 am
by Slim
I think Newcastle have done us a huge favour, the pressure of them pulling to within a win is gone and the guys can get out of the traps early and destroy this team of overpriced jobbers.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:51 am
by brite blu sky
Slim wrote:I think Newcastle have done us a huge favour, the pressure of them pulling to within a win is gone and the guys can get out of the traps early and destroy this team of overpriced jobbers.


Not sure it was the Barcodes or the rags that did us a favour ;)

We shouldn't count our chickens though quiet yet. We can outplay the Scoucers but we still have to win it. Without ramping it too much this has got the feel of a season defining opportunity for City.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:57 am
by Slim
brite blu sky wrote:
Slim wrote:I think Newcastle have done us a huge favour, the pressure of them pulling to within a win is gone and the guys can get out of the traps early and destroy this team of overpriced jobbers.


Not sure it was the Barcodes or the rags that did us a favour ;)

We shouldn't count our chickens though quiet yet. We can outplay the Scoucers but we still have to win it. Without ramping it too much this has got the feel of a season defining opportunity for City.


We aren't playing Blackburn.

I am just saying we can play without fear, not that it appears to be a problem this season but last season in the same fixture we were like a deer in headlights.

Re: Don't let me down

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:46 am
by Ted Hughes
Slim wrote:
brite blu sky wrote:
Slim wrote:I think Newcastle have done us a huge favour, the pressure of them pulling to within a win is gone and the guys can get out of the traps early and destroy this team of overpriced jobbers.


Not sure it was the Barcodes or the rags that did us a favour ;)

We shouldn't count our chickens though quiet yet. We can outplay the Scoucers but we still have to win it. Without ramping it too much this has got the feel of a season defining opportunity for City.


We aren't playing Blackburn.

I am just saying we can play without fear, not that it appears to be a problem this season but last season in the same fixture we were like a deer in headlights.


This is where getting 'experience as a team' becomes relevant, win or lose. We have just been to Napoli, where the crowd is louder & the opposition slightly better. Now the scousers are going to try & do the same thing but different; the crowd will be up for it but Liverpool will play in a different style to Napoli. It's another high intensity game though & the type of pressure cooker situation previous City teams would only experience in small grounds v poor teams, in the cups. More often than not though, when & team & crowd was up for it, our 'rocks' (players like Dunney & those before him) would turn to shit & we'd be dumped out of the competition. Now we have big teams & crowds raising their game v us & it's the challenge we need to overcome. We did it at OT & the Lane but failed in Europe.

Imo two of our current 'rocks' Yaya & Nige, pretty much did a Richard Dunne in Napoli & completely lost their games.

Will the experience of Napoli help cope with today so 11 players stand up or will it be another lesson we have to learn ?