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The big thing we lack imo and something we need to address quickly. We need to buy a quality pacey winger or two.

Whilst I'm on a speed thing, we also need to pass more quickly, we often take two or three passes to get the ball out wide when it could be done in one.

Blue2 wrote:The big thing we lack imo and something we need to address quickly. We need to buy a quality pacey winger or two.

Whilst I'm on a speed thing, we also need to pass more quickly, we often take two or three passes to get the ball out wide when it could be done in one.

I agree entirely, but I don't think Mancini see's it the same, he constantly plays wingers on the wrong side, so even if we did have a walcott or a lennon, when they got to the by line they wouldn't be able to do much.

He wants the fullbacks to supply the width and Richards and Clichy are 2 of the quickest around.

I agree entirely on the need to move the ball quicker though, we need Silva for that though it seems, Nasri was alright last night and looked a bit better, but before we came on we didn't have a decent passer on the field.

thegoatfeeder wrote:

Blue2 wrote:The big thing we lack imo and something we need to address quickly. We need to buy a quality pacey winger or two.

Whilst I'm on a speed thing, we also need to pass more quickly, we often take two or three passes to get the ball out wide when it could be done in one.

I agree entirely, but I don't think Mancini see's it the same, he constantly plays wingers on the wrong side, so even if we did have a walcott or a lennon, when they got to the by line they wouldn't be able to do much.

He wants the fullbacks to supply the width and Richards and Clichy are 2 of the quickest around.

I agree entirely on the need to move the ball quicker though, we need Silva for that though it seems, Nasri was alright last night and looked a bit better, but before we came on we didn't have a decent passer on the field.

And when we started doing it really well, Bob took off Johnson who was one of the main contributors.

There are lots of things we can improve on but we only have a chance right now of one or two players.

Lennon imo is actually really good- far better than Walcott or SWP. He knows where the net is and his final ball has really improved.

Where does a pacey winger run against a team playing with nine defenders all around the box ?

zuricity wrote:Where does a pacey winger run against a team playing with nine defenders all around the box ?

It stretches teams, pulls the full backs and wingers out.

For me Richards is the only one in the team (except YaYa when he goes) that will drive at players and then continue past them..
Johnson use to take people and get past, but he is definately far more reluctant to do this for some reason. Nasri glided past people for Arsenal but as yet we are still waiting for the same Nasri to show. There are signs that its coming and I believe he will make a big impact from now till end of season. So yes pace and beating people is an issue a concern and is another option when other teams have plugged the centre of their half to avoid our passing game.

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:

zuricity wrote:Where does a pacey winger run against a team playing with nine defenders all around the box ?

It stretches teams, pulls the full backs and wingers out.

Do you want to rethink that post in the light of what Zurich was saying?
I don't think you fully grasped the implication of the fact that the box was crowded....nowhere to run to, might be a clue.

Pace over 5-10 yards is very important. Kun has this. Mario too , but Edin is a little slow. David has it , Samir has it , Yaya, James and Gareth do not. Gareth Bale is very fast , perfect for own half counter attacks, but when the waggons are circled around the box, give me Kun over Gareth Bale, anyday

zuricity wrote:Pace over 5-10 yards is very important. Kun has this. Mario too , but Edin is a little slow. David has it , Samir has it , Yaya, James and Gareth do not. Gareth Bale is very fast , perfect for own half counter attacks, but when the waggons are circled around the box, give me Kun over Gareth Bale, anyday

Edin has it but doesn't use it. Remember the break in the carling cup against arsenal?

When was the last time that Johnson made a fullback look shite?

vulcan wrote:

zuricity wrote:Pace over 5-10 yards is very important. Kun has this. Mario too , but Edin is a little slow. David has it , Samir has it , Yaya, James and Gareth do not. Gareth Bale is very fast , perfect for own half counter attacks, but when the waggons are circled around the box, give me Kun over Gareth Bale, anyday

Edin has it but doesn't use it. Remember the break in the carling cup against arsenal?

Seems to me Dzeko has pace over 30 yards but not much acceleration over ten. Against the rags, over a long sprint, Evra struggled to live with him. Over short bursts everybody seems to match or neat him.

When I see AJ on the ball in front of me, he often beats his fullback inside or outside, looks up and....has a bit more of a look...then there's a hint of blue shirt appearing amongst the defenders..no he's too well marked & not really looking as if he wants the ball..erm...nobody open on the edge of the box..ooh far post....nope nobody running in..David Silva is stood in front of me with his back to goal, perhaps that's the best option...Richards is arriving shall I pass it to him...he'll have the same problem though..ok...I'll give it Silva & we can ...fuck he's marked...there you go Nige, give it Joe Hart.


When Valancia received the ball in the same area there were 3 Utd players all attacking the same six yards of space, all with a run on their defenders. If you can put the roughly in that area, it's 50/50 whether a Utd attacker gets an effort on goal. AJ would try to put in the exact same ball if he was playing for them, wheras Valencia would stop & fuck about if he was playing for us.

If wide players are going to work, the whole team has to be in on it. A lot of the stuff people are moaning on about AJ on here is utter crap. Give him the options, THEN if he can't deliver, fuck him off & bring in someone else. No point in having wingers just to pass to David Silva.

john68 wrote:

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:

zuricity wrote:Where does a pacey winger run against a team playing with nine defenders all around the box ?

It stretches teams, pulls the full backs and wingers out.

Do you want to rethink that post in the light of what Zurich was saying?
I don't think you fully grasped the implication of the fact that the box was crowded....nowhere to run to, might be a clue.

I think I fully grasped it and can we have a little less patronizing please. The last time i checked, the touchline wasn't in the penalty box. When you play with out and out wingers it pulls defenders out the box. When everything is so central they can just crowd the box.

Ted Hughes wrote:

vulcan wrote:

zuricity wrote:Pace over 5-10 yards is very important. Kun has this. Mario too , but Edin is a little slow. David has it , Samir has it , Yaya, James and Gareth do not. Gareth Bale is very fast , perfect for own half counter attacks, but when the waggons are circled around the box, give me Kun over Gareth Bale, anyday

Edin has it but doesn't use it. Remember the break in the carling cup against arsenal?

Seems to me Dzeko has pace over 30 yards but not much acceleration over ten. Against the rags, over a long sprint, Evra struggled to live with him. Over short bursts everybody seems to match or neat him.

When I see AJ on the ball in front of me, he often beats his fullback inside or outside, looks up and....has a bit more of a look...then there's a hint of blue shirt appearing amongst the defenders..no he's too well marked & not really looking as if he wants the ball..erm...nobody open on the edge of the box..ooh far post....nope nobody running in..David Silva is stood in front of me with his back to goal, perhaps that's the best option...Richards is arriving shall I pass it to him...he'll have the same problem though..ok...I'll give it Silva & we can ...fuck he's marked...there you go Nige, give it Joe Hart.


When Valancia received the ball in the same area there were 3 Utd players all attacking the same six yards of space, all with a run on their defenders. If you can put the roughly in that area, it's 50/50 whether a Utd attacker gets an effort on goal. AJ would try to put in the exact same ball if he was playing for them, wheras Valencia would stop & fuck about if he was playing for us.

If wide players are going to work, the whole team has to be in on it. A lot of the stuff people are moaning on about AJ on here is utter crap. Give him the options, THEN if he can't deliver, fuck him off & bring in someone else. No point in having wingers just to pass to David Silva.

Could not agree more. Sometimes the simplest methods are the most effective. Ball on to the wing, cross into the box, bang.
When a united winger gets the ball their first thought is just to whip it into the box because they know they'll have 3/4 players attacking the ball. We normally have one. In fact on numerous occasions I've seen Johnson, Silva, Milner etc have the ball out wide with no one in the box to cross to.

Edin received some critisism on wednesday after he came on. However, not one cross was pumped into him on the ground or in the air. The closest one got to him, Kun headed over the bar towards the end of the game. Compare that to united's first goal last Sunday, when three players were attacking the ball and tuffty got it.

I wasn't wishing to be patronising but I keep explaining that shovin a ball into the general area of the box...from anywhere, not just the wing, is a lottery ball. It is playing on the gamble that a blue will get it. If you're going to gamble, you have to look at the odds.

If you flood the box, how many do you flood it with? If they have a ten man packed area, it means any less by City gives them the odds. If you go 9, the most you can go with, you leave yourself far too exposed for a breakaway. Shove 3 or 4 in and you're so outnumbered, it renders the gamble a nonsense.
If you shove a guy wide, and pull a defender out, it doesn't make sufficient difference to the odds inside the box where they still have an overwhelming advantage.
That sort of footbsall is played on a Sunday by Pub teams in parks, we would hope that City are a little more sophisticated than that.

I'll stop at that.

Pace gives you more options. Even when Liverpoool had a few men in attack, a corner maybe, we didn't have the pace to expose that oppotunity and ended up just going through the motions again and again taking about 10 passes to get anywhere near their box. If we had pace, one pass out wide and then a run at the defence makes a massive differnce. We had no variety, it was turgid.

john68 wrote:I wasn't wishing to be patronising but I keep explaining that shovin a ball into the general area of the box...from anywhere, not just the wing, is a lottery ball. It is playing on the gamble that a blue will get it. If you're going to gamble, you have to look at the odds.

If you flood the box, how many do you flood it with? If they have a ten man packed area, it means any less by City gives them the odds. If you go 9, the most you can go with, you leave yourself far too exposed for a breakaway. Shove 3 or 4 in and you're so outnumbered, it renders the gamble a nonsense.
If you shove a guy wide, and pull a defender out, it doesn't make sufficient difference to the odds inside the box where they still have an overwhelming advantage.
That sort of footbsall is played on a Sunday by Pub teams in parks, we would hope that City are a little more sophisticated than that.

I'll stop at that.

So what would you suggest? When against Brom, Sunderland and Liverpool we couldn't break through them?
Yeahh I'd really hate it if we beat United through a lottery ball. I'd almost rather lose.

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:

john68 wrote:I wasn't wishing to be patronising but I keep explaining that shovin a ball into the general area of the box...from anywhere, not just the wing, is a lottery ball. It is playing on the gamble that a blue will get it. If you're going to gamble, you have to look at the odds.

If you flood the box, how many do you flood it with? If they have a ten man packed area, it means any less by City gives them the odds. If you go 9, the most you can go with, you leave yourself far too exposed for a breakaway. Shove 3 or 4 in and you're so outnumbered, it renders the gamble a nonsense.
If you shove a guy wide, and pull a defender out, it doesn't make sufficient difference to the odds inside the box where they still have an overwhelming advantage.
That sort of footbsall is played on a Sunday by Pub teams in parks, we would hope that City are a little more sophisticated than that.

I'll stop at that.

So what would you suggest? When against Brom, Sunderland and Liverpool we couldn't break through them?
Yeahh I'd really hate it if we beat United through a lottery ball. I'd almost rather lose.

It's not about 'lottery balls' it's about proper crosses & people running into the correct areas to get on the end of them. This season, alot of our goals have come from the ball round the back & then into the 6 yard box like Richards, Nasri, Milner did v Spurs rags etc. Very few of our goals have come from a player attacking an area of the box & someone putting the ball in there. Yaya Toure v QPR is one of the few I can think of. Rooney's goals of that type over the last two seasons will be well into double figures by now & he's hardly Alan Shearer.

Getting the forwards/midfielders attacking the right areas & the right ball into those areas is our biggest weakness & the rags have advantage over us in that department. Every time they beat us, at least one goal is scored like that & yet we still have this discussion every season.

It's not about pace though imo, it's about accuracy & teamwork & not over complicating when it's not neccessary.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:

john68 wrote:I wasn't wishing to be patronising but I keep explaining that shovin a ball into the general area of the box...from anywhere, not just the wing, is a lottery ball. It is playing on the gamble that a blue will get it. If you're going to gamble, you have to look at the odds.

If you flood the box, how many do you flood it with? If they have a ten man packed area, it means any less by City gives them the odds. If you go 9, the most you can go with, you leave yourself far too exposed for a breakaway. Shove 3 or 4 in and you're so outnumbered, it renders the gamble a nonsense.
If you shove a guy wide, and pull a defender out, it doesn't make sufficient difference to the odds inside the box where they still have an overwhelming advantage.
That sort of footbsall is played on a Sunday by Pub teams in parks, we would hope that City are a little more sophisticated than that.

I'll stop at that.

So what would you suggest? When against Brom, Sunderland and Liverpool we couldn't break through them?
Yeahh I'd really hate it if we beat United through a lottery ball. I'd almost rather lose.

It's not about 'lottery balls' it's about proper crosses & people running into the correct areas to get on the end of them. This season, alot of our goals have come from the ball round the back & then into the 6 yard box like Richards, Nasri, Milner did v Spurs rags etc. Very few of our goals have come from a player attacking an area of the box & someone putting the ball in there. Yaya Toure v QPR is one of the few I can think of. Rooney's goals of that type over the last two seasons will be well into double figures by now & he's hardly Alan Shearer.

Getting the forwards/midfielders attacking the right areas & the right ball into those areas is our biggest weakness & the rags have advantage over us in that department. Every time they beat us, at least one goal is scored like that & yet we still have this discussion every season.

It's not about pace though imo, it's about accuracy & teamwork & not over complicating when it's not neccessary.

Agreed, In all 3 losses a couple of seasons ago, they scored goals from simple crosses into the box. Rooney in the CC, Fletcher in the 4-3 and Scholes at our place. But when teams defend so deep we cant get in behind them so we need another option and having wide players who can deliver a good ball is definitely one.