Page 1 of 11
*** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:34 amby Chinners
Pending my hectic schedule [strike]Twitchy[/strike] Terry cam is back in glorious 'Black and white vision' .... if I get the chance I will pop along to London's Westminster Magistrates' Court for a day as well ....
As before with the Twitchy trial, all posts are subject to the usual reporting constrictions and posts are not necessarily the views of Mancityfans.net etc etc .... and posters should take care in what they post whilst the trial is on ...Chelsea and England defender John Terry is due to stand trial later accused of racially abusing QPR's Anton Ferdinand.
The case relates to a comment allegedly made to Queens Park Rangers defender Anton Ferdinand when the teams played last October.
The 31-year-old is charged with a racially-aggravated public order offence, for which the maximum sentence is a £2,500 fine.
The Chelsea skipper's trial takes place at Westminster Magistrates' Court.
Police questioned Mr Terry under caution in November 2011 and a file on the matter was sent to the Crown Prosecution Service at the beginning of December.
The decision to investigate the former England captain was taken when police received a complaint from a member of the public after the Premier League match at Loftus Road.
As a summary offence under the Crime and Disorder Act, it will be fully heard in a magistrates' court.
Mr Terry, who won the Champions League and the FA Cup with Chelsea this season, was part of the England team that reached the quarter-finals of Euro 2012 last month.
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:06 amby Nigels Tackle
liverpool found guilty of similar offence has just been fined and banned from all football grounds for 4 years...
wonder what fate awaits jt?
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:11 amby Chinners
Here we go then.
DAY 1
In Court 1 of Westminster Magistrates where trial of John Terry has begun. Defence confirms the plea of not guilty remains
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:23 amby Chinners
Duncan Penny for Crown says Terry used "abusive & insulting words towards A Ferdinand...demonstrated hostility based on Mr Ferdinand's..membership or presumed membership of a racial group.
Prosecution say that Terry accepts using "f*ck off, f*ck off", "f black cunt" and "f nobhead" but defence will be "sarcastic exclamation"
Alleged abuse "probably in response to physical gestures being made by Mr Ferdinand which the defendant understood to refer to the ....well publicised allegation of an extra-marital affair with a team-mate's wife"
Crown says there is "very little dispute" between lipreading experts on what Terry said to Ferdinand. Defence claims it was 'sarcastic'
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:25 amby Chinners
Crown about to show footage of Terry-Ferdinand incident. Technical issue causing delay. Terry out the dock for better view of TV
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:28 amby Ted Hughes
Sarcastic ?
This should be interesting; to see how they're going to play that one.
But if Harry & OJ Simpson were not guilty, anything is possible.
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:32 amby Chinners
Pros. Says the slur came after the two players clashed and swapped insults and had to be separated by others
Based on lip-reading evidence, Crown says Ferdinand said to Terry: "Oih you shagging ya mates missus" - accompanied by 'fist gesture.
Close ups show Terry shouting, some of it obscured by players walking in front of him.
Pros says the match was broadcast live to 2 million viewers
Chelsea operated a camera at Loftus Road filming for training purposes
Unbroadcast footage now being shown to court from Sky TV and Chelsea FC - filmed for training purposes
Close up slow motion of Terry's mouth clearly shows him saying 'black c*nt'
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:47 amby Chinners
Pros says there is not much dispute between prosecution and defence lip reading experts about the words used by Terry
Crown's case is that words were "uttered in response to goading by Mr Ferdinand on the issue of his extra-marital affair, rather than by...way of exaggerated & instant querying of a perceived false allegation."
Exhange reads like a puerile school yard dispute. But case illustrates how seriously Britain takes allegations of racist abuse
Doreen Lawrence in the public gallery observing..
Duncan Penny for the prosecution in Terry trial leading court through scrutiny of TV footage. Examination of footage ending now
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:58 amby Chinners
We may be hearing from a body language expert to determine context of Terry's response to Ferdinand.
Pros says Terry was interviewed by Football Association five days after the match.
Crown confirms neither Ashley Cole or Jon Obi Mikel - both close to alleged incident - will be called by prosecution They were obscuring view of Terry in footage
Terry was interviewed by the FA within 5 days of incident, and claimed after he'd been knocked to ground by Ferdinand the two had words.
Judge asks prosecutor to tell him who the players alongside Terry are.
Judge: I'm trying to avoid my Beatles moment but can you tell me?
Crown now quoting from interview Terry gave to FA on 28 Oct 2011.
Terry said to FA he used phrase ‘black c***’ on the pitch. But only to ask Ferdinand why he was alleging that the insult had been used
Crown: Terry said Ferdinand was indicating Chelsea should have given ball back QPR because team mate was down.
Pros says Terry thought Ferdinand had accused him of calling him an f****** black c-word
Crown says Terry told FA he made gesture ‘pretending Mr Ferdinand had bad breath’
In FA interview,Terry admitted raising hand to his nose to pretend Anton had bad breath following "normal football verbals", court hears
Terry (FA statement) on being goaded over alleged extra-marital affair ‘It’s not 1st time I’ve heard it so it’s with a pinch of salt ...now’
Terry tells FA that Ferdinand was the first person to utter the words "black c***...I think he's accusing me of calling him a black c***".
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:05 amby Scatman
Can anyone post on here? If not, sorry. But what is a Beatles moment?
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:06 amby Chinners
."I then take quite a strong offence..& I think he starts walking towards me...then I obviously hear the word 'shagging', & I don't want.. to say it, but if I have to again, 'shagging Bridge's missus',"
Terry said to FA if someone called him an 'ugly c***' He would reply 'an ugly c***. Look at yourself'
Terry said to FA he spoke to Ferdinand after game in CFC dressing room & Ferdinand denied that he believed Terry called him a 'black c***'
Crown: #Terry said after "square up" Ferdinand walked towards him and he heard words "shagging Bridge's missus" and made fist gesture.
Terry asked Ashley Cole to call Ferdinand in to meet him after QPR v CFC game in Oct 2011
Ferdinand to FA admits saying to Terry: 'How can you call me a c***, you shagged your team-mate's missus, you're the c***'
Terry told FA: "you can quite easily say that (video) doen't look good" but no intention to cause offence, court hears
Ashley Cole to Anton Ferdinand: 'you can't talk to JT like that'
Ashley Cole to Ferdinand after game: 'You can't talk to [Terry] like that. Ferdinand: 'If he's willing to give it out, he has to take it'
Ferdinand called to a meeting with Cole, Terry, Chelsea staff post-game. Terry, Ferdinand shook hands, court hears
Ferdinand only saw footage of Terry incident in QPR players' lounge after game. His girlfriend showed it to him on YouTube
Ferdinand hadn't seen footage when terry spoke with him after game. Show it afterwards on YouTube by his girlfriend. Was 'livid
Ferdinand to Terry: 'you called me a cu*t. So I said shagging your teammate's missus is a cu*t.'
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:09 amby Chinners
Scatman wrote:Can anyone post on here? If not, sorry. But what is a Beatles moment?
Of course you can post, just be careful not to breach any reporting laws etc
I believe a Beatles moment is the term used when someone doesn't know who the 'famous' people are as they have no interest in them but the majority of other people do .... or summit
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:18 amby Chinners
Terry says footballers are used to 'industrial' language but racist terms are 'completely unacceptable'. Took 'strong offence' to allegation
Terry said he was 'taken aback' by being accused of using racist language towards Ferdinand. Said words were 'responsive' not 'accusatory'
Terry certain he heard Ferdinand's words because Loftus Road 'only holds 20,000 fans while at Old Trafford there are 80,000'
In interview under caution Terry said he'd heard Ferdinand say something ending with "calling me a black c*nt..." court hears
"Whilst footballers are used to industrial language" using "racist" terms "completely unacceptable", said Terry under caution, court hears.
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:36 amby Alex Sapphire
it's like being their Chinners. Great stuff.
Love to see all these blokes in frocks and wigs using this industrial language with straight faces.
I presume there has been no video footage of Ferdinand mouthing the term B---k C--t which seems to be (at least part of ) the basis of terry's defence ?
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:51 amby Chinners
Not as yet, I presume that will come when the defence get their turn ...
meanwhile back in courtroom 1 ....
"[I] have been called a lot of things in my football career and outside football," said Terry under caution, but never been called racist
took "objection" to Ferdinand's remarks, he said under caution, and responded.
<CALL THE FIRST WITNESS>
Anton Ferdinand being sworn in as witness at Terry trial
Terry jotting notes in the dock as Ferdinand going through incident leading up to the verbal spat
Anton Ferdinand going through word by word exchange with 'mr' Terry. excruciating
Prosecution asks Ferdinand how many times he & Terry called each other "a c***". "I couldn't tell you" says Ferdinand.
Ferdinand has just been asked to explain what his gesture moving his fist back and forth meant: 'a gesture to suggest shagging'
Ferdinand says in court he said to Terry: 'You shagged your team-mate's missus, you're a c***'
Ferdinand says during the game he did not accuse Terry of using racist language on the pitch
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:58 amby Chinners
Ferdinand on trying to shake Cole's hand after game: 'I went to shake his hand and he said to me 'you can't talk to JT like that.''
Ferdinand to Cole: 'I'm a big man. I can talk to who I want the way I want. '
Ferdinand says he told Ashley Cole 'I'm a big man ... if he [Terry] wants to do that [alleged extra-marital affair] he should expect it'
It was the QPR kitman who told Anton Ferdinand that Terry wanted a word with him after game
Ferdinand says Terry said to him after the game in CFC dressing room: 'What happened, geez?'
Crown: 'Geez is short for geezer, right?'
Ferdinand on chat with Terry in dressing room post match: He (Terry) said that Ash thought I said he (terry) racially abused me
Ferdinand denies accusing Terry of using racist language - this challenges defence that Terry merely said words in "sarcastic exclamation"
Ferdinand: 'We agreed it was handbags.' Crown: 'If the issue'd been racism would you have considered it 'handbags'?' Ferdinand: 'No. Never.'
When girlfriend asked Anton Ferdinand if Terry had racially abused him he 'looked at her like she was crazy.' 'and I said no'
Girlfriend then showed Ferdinand footage on Blackberry - first time Ferdinand realized racial language was use towards him.
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:09 amby Chinners
Ferdinand: If someone calls you a c*** that's fine but if someone brings your colour in it takes it to another level ... it's very hurtful'
Ferdinand tells court had he known he's been racially abused there would have been an 'altercation' after the game. 'anywhere, somewhere'
Ferdinand: 'When I turned my phone on it was going crazy, Twitter, everything'. Crown: 'Is there something called 'trending' on Twitter?'
Defence lawyer to Ferdinand: being called a cu*t I would suggest isn't the first time that's happened to you I would suggest
Defending lawyer: you have a tendency mr Ferdinand to pair yourself in the best possible light. Ferdinand: no I just tell the truth
Terry asked him: "what happened out there, geez". Ferdinand said he replied: "I don't know, you tell me".
Tape played of Ferd going through back of Terry in penalty area before spat. Lawyer: you were wound up Ferdinand: no I'm calm and collected
Ferdinand said Terry told him Ashley Cole had told him Ferdinand thought Terry had racially abused him, court heard.
Ferdinand being pushed by Terry's lawyer to explain his actions in the game as video being played. Blow by blow stuff
The media await the lunch break ...
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:36 amby Chinners
Ferdinand said he told Terry "No, I never made that accusation" and "that never came out of my mouth".
Ferdinand said both men had called each other "a cunt", but he had not heard #Terry use the word "black".
Ferdinand said Terry and he shook hands in dressing room, and agreed it was "just handbags" - or banter, court heard
Lawyer to Ferdinand: did it anger you when he raised his hand to suggest you had bad breath? Ferdinand: yes.
In QPR players lounge, Ferdinand's girlfriend asked if #Terry had racially abused him. He said "no" and thought she was "crazy".
Ferdinand on calling Terry a cu*t: I didn't say it for him not hear it. I said it for h to hear me.
Lawyer: Why are you still shouting? Lawyer: why are you so angry? Ferdinand: because he tried to get a penalty
Terry's lawyer Carter Stevenson really getting stuck into Ferdinand now. Asking him how he's sure he didn't use the word 'Bridge' in abuse
Breaking thick cent bollox
Away from courtroom 1, Rio Tw@tter has been as subtle as ever ...
“@rioferdy5: Film of the day: Liar Liar....starring Jim Carey. what a film!!”
Chinners @Chinners2
@rioferdy5 You plum, good job there's not a jury involved eh ... <shakes head in disbelief>
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:45 amby Wooders
Defence lawyer to Ferdinand: being called a cu*t I would suggest isn't the first time that's happened to you I would suggest
Wow ! What a statement !
Re: *** Terry Cam ***
Posted:
Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:47 amby Chinners
Hand gestures in front of ref OK, "as long as it ain't swearing," Ferdinand tells court. "verbal and gestures" are very different.
Ferdinand said he kept shouting abuse at Terry over affair "over and over again."
''I'd been shouting the same thing over and over again,'' Ferdinand says when asked by lawyer what he'd been shouting at Terry
Lawyer: Why did you keep going (swearing)? Ferdinand: Because I wanted to Lawyer: So you think you can do whatever you want to?
Lawyer accsues Ferdinand of 'upping'' the ante by accusing Terry of racially abusing him even though he hadn't...
lawyer putting Ferdinand through the ringer. Says Ferd accused Terry of racially abusing him during game because other abuse had no effect
Defence says Ferdinand, angry that what he was shouting had no effect on #Terry, decided it "up it" and accuse him of racism. AF denies.