The mancityfans.net football forum

On BBC news now.

Anybody watching? I was only very small at the time and don't remember it, but it seems like these steps being taken now are big ones but will be too late for many.

Apologies all round, from Cameron and Milliband on behalf of both governments.

There was an initial lie from the police officer in overall charge on that day claiming fans had forced the side gate (when he had ordered it open to relieve pressure at the turnstiles), that lead to a media campaign of blame on the fans which many people still believe to this day - proof of tampered reports from junior officers giving evidence show a coverup by police. Apologies are meaningless and insufficient.

I find it weird people apologising for the bad work of others. They should be wheeling out Thatcher who was the main player in getting football fans treated like animals ... she is deffo the one who should be apologising for instructiung this cover up if it is to mean anything rather than lip service bollox .... the bitch

how come this kind of thing never happened at hillsbrough the thousands of times football matches were played there before this incident?

I'm not 100% sure of what the Justice Campaign wants.

I heard an interview that they aren't calling for individual heads, but simply an apology. But after the apology, there's just been a guy on there asking for individuals to be punished.

I guess there's a lot of affected people and not all of them can want the same justice.

I feel a bit for Cameron. As you say, Chinners, it doesn't seem that it should be him who should be offering the apology.

There was also an interview that St Joey Barton conducted with some of the people who survived - and during one of the guys telling the story, he admits to "winning a tug of war" with a policewoman before the game to get into a stand he didn't have a ticket for.

Seemed a bit of a strange thing to say.

I read the entire Taylor report a couple of years back, what got me about it was it was supposed to be a report about what happened, why it happened, etc. What I read was a load of shite, talking about vague scenarios, like they still had no real idea what were the root causes of the disaster.

I did some further reading and as far as I can tell, there weren't enough turnstiles to get the fans into the ground in good time, the liverpool fans started pushing through because the game had started, they opened a gate which caused a flood of people into the section and there were too many people in one fenced off section causing a crush of people. It also alluded to counterfeit tickets, fans without tickets and alcohol as contributing factors.

I think what sickens me most about this is Liverpool fans and their continuing "Justice for the 96" campaign when they fail to take any, and I mean ANY, of the responsibility themselves and if you even as much as hint at it, they lash out with psychotic venom.

an unfortunate chain of events that led to the tragic loss of almost 100 lives

facts are:
the police made mistakes
liverpool fans made mistakes

who gives a shit what happened in the days/months afterwards? nothing will ever make it possible to turn the clock back and right those wrongs.

I think I tend to agree with you Slim.

By no means were the LFC fans solely to blame, and the decisions the police appeared to have (or not) made after the gate was opened contributed heavily, but as i said - even in an interview the other day, one of them admitted to being in a stand he wasn't permitted to be in, and even described his "tug of war" that he "won" with a policewoman.

I also know fans that rushed the gates in Istanbul that said there were two-men to a seat. Again, seems a strange thing to do, considering.

Nickyboy wrote:how come this kind of thing never happened at hillsbrough the thousands of times football matches were played there before this incident?

Because they were oveseen by an officer with actual experience of events like this, rather than a rookie.

Nickyboy wrote:how come this kind of thing never happened at hillsbrough the thousands of times football matches were played there before this incident?

it very nearly did they just ignored the warning signs.
stupid fucking question mind

The whole cover up thing is fucking unbelievable though.

Slim wrote:... What I read was a load of shite, talking about vague scenarios, like they still had no real idea what were the root causes of the disaster...

...It also alluded to counterfeit tickets, fans without tickets and alcohol as contributing factors...

They have every right to feel victimised.

Thats the point Slim. Most of the 'released' evidence blamed the fans via the media and doctored police statements, hence them being angry and wanting justice which they might well get in parts now. Sure there are always a couple of knobs at games but the insinuation that the majority caused this is/was risible stuff. Fair play to the Scoucers for not letting it lie is my view, I'd be the same if I knew someone had died and the blame being placed on someone else was bollox.

Cameron working hard with all these questions and requests. He could do himself a lot of favours here today.

Slim wrote:I think what sickens me most about this is Liverpool fans and their continuing "Justice for the 96" campaign when they fail to take any, and I mean ANY, of the responsibility themselves and if you even as much as hint at it, they lash out with psychotic venom.

that it wwhat the report and apology are all about. They weren't responsible they weren't pissed (and at the time they were ALL tested including kids so that was known). They are venemous 9up to now) because they have been treated like shit to coiver up bad practice by those responsible for keeping it safe.
You should read tomorrows papers

Alex Sapphire wrote:

Slim wrote:I think what sickens me most about this is Liverpool fans and their continuing "Justice for the 96" campaign when they fail to take any, and I mean ANY, of the responsibility themselves and if you even as much as hint at it, they lash out with psychotic venom.

that it wwhat the report and apology are all about. They weren't responsible they weren't pissed (and at the time they were ALL tested including kids so that was known). They are venemous 9up to now) because they have been treated like shit to coiver up bad practice by those responsible for keeping it safe.
You should read tomorrows papers

Put far better than me ... bang on

Chinners wrote:Thats the point Slim. Most of the 'released' evidence blamed the fans via the media and doctored police statements, hence them being angry and wanting justice which they might well get in parts now. Sure there are always a couple of knobs at games but the insinuation that the majority caused this is/was risible stuff. Fair play to the Scoucers for not letting it lie is my view, I'd be the same if I knew someone had died and the blame being placed on someone else was bollox.

police blame fans.
fans blame police.

Dameerto wrote:

Slim wrote:... What I read was a load of shite, talking about vague scenarios, like they still had no real idea what were the root causes of the disaster...

...It also alluded to counterfeit tickets, fans without tickets and alcohol as contributing factors...

They have every right to feel victimised.

I am unsure where you're going with that.

Yffi, I am by no means saying the entire situation was the fault of the Liverpool fans, it took a series of mistakes to cause the disaster, any one of which had it been avoided could have had a different outcome. But they are in part responsible for what happened and there is no escaping that fact.

One of the darkest days in football I can remember.

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Chinners wrote:Thats the point Slim. Most of the 'released' evidence blamed the fans via the media and doctored police statements, hence them being angry and wanting justice which they might well get in parts now. Sure there are always a couple of knobs at games but the insinuation that the majority caused this is/was risible stuff. Fair play to the Scoucers for not letting it lie is my view, I'd be the same if I knew someone had died and the blame being placed on someone else was bollox.

police blame fans.
fans blame police.

there's a few people online who are listening to whats happening in the House, and a loadwho are relying on what they read over the last 20 oidd years. beleive me what has been admitted in the house is new news and the gasps from the dickheads in there demonstrate how horribly different the truth is from what you will have read. please wait until you have access to the same facts before you try to drag the argumant back 23 years